Receipt of Scholarship - Requesting clarification for houses

1
My daughter is planning to apply for a very prestigious scholarship, that is awarded by a University, not the Government.

First, she asked the question if she would get the scholarship. I pointed out to her that I think she has to *apply* for the scholarship before she can ask the question as to whether she would win it.

So the next day, she asked the question "Should I apply for the scholarship?" The application process requires a lot of work, and she already has a full plate with current studies, and so she asked the question so that it would guide her as to whether it was worth putting in the effort or not.

So my question is 2-fold:

1) Is the 1st question valid? In other words, is it OK to ask the question without having applied for it?

2) What would be the significators and planets for scholarships?

My opinion is that the 1st question cannot be asked, so the 2nd is valid.

Regarding 2nd question, I believe the houses in question would be the 1st to the 10th, the 10th being the money and resources of the University; i.e. 2nd from the 9th. I think Jupiter would signify the award as well, and any positive connections between the rulers of 1st, 10th and 9th or the Moon to the 10th or 9th, or any connection between the Moon or her signficator to Jupiter would give the answer.

So I looked at both charts, and I noticed strong connections between the significators and rulers of above houses in both charts.

However, I chose to judge the 2nd chart, for the reasons just listed.

In the 2nd chart, the ASC ruler is the Moon, so that's her. I see that the Moon in Sagittarius is coming to a sextile in just 2 degrees with the ruler of the 10th, which is Jupiter in Libra, and then it goes on to conjunct Saturn, which is ruler of the 9th. I feel this is positive for the following reasons:

1) There is mixed reception between the two planets; Moon in it's face and Jupiter in its terms.
2) There is additional mixed reception, in that Moon is in a place where Jupiter is in dignity.
3) Jupiter in itself signifies awards, higher learning, etc.
4) In addition to this, the Moon almost exactly squares the MC.
5) Part of Fortune and the Sun are in the 10th, I think these signify general good luck in terms of honors and rewards.

If the Moon in the 2nd chart was to be read as a passage of events, then it appears that the Moon first sextiles Jupiter (scholarship), and then goes on to conjunct Saturn, ruler of the 9th, which is the University. Incidentally, the scholarship is in a foreign country involving long distance travel, so the conjunction with Saturn not just signifies the University, but also long distance travel to that foreign country. And in terms of sequence of events, it all fits; first she gets the scholarship, then she goes long distance and joins the university.

It all seems to fit.... but then again, she is my daughter, so I may be reading this through completely biased eyes! :)

Would appreciate any kind of feedback! Thank you!

2
Hello,

Here are some comments and questions.
Taurus7 wrote:1) Is the 1st question valid? In other words, is it OK to ask the question without having applied for it?
Yes, it is OK to ask before applying. Asking such question implies that the application must be made. If there is no application the question is moot. If there is an application the answer is for that scenario. If she won't apply the chart will simply say "no" and it may be kind enough to tell why.
Taurus7 wrote:The application process requires a lot of work, and she already has a full plate with current studies, and so she asked the question so that it would guide her as to whether it was worth putting in the effort or not.
Which is like asking: "if I apply will I be accepted?"

The chart should show whether she has the strength to go through the process and the desire to do it or not. That is given by accidental dignity and receptions respectively
Taurus7 wrote:2) What would be the significators and planets for scholarships? ?the money and resources of the University; i.e. 2nd from the 9th.
Correcct. It is a "gift from the university" therefore it is the turned 2nd house from the 9th house. The ruler of house 10.
Taurus7 wrote:I think Jupiter would signify the award as well
If Jupiter rules house 10 that is why it is the scholarship, not because it is Jupiter. Accidental rulership has precedence over natural rulership, if accidental rulership is available.
Taurus7 wrote:and any positive connections between the rulers of 1st, 10th and 9th or the Moon to the 10th or 9th, or any connection between the Moon or her signficator to Jupiter would give the answer.
We also have to evaluate whether your daughter has power to act. That is in the chart, which is a reflection of real life. If she does not have power to act any desire to go to school and the opportunity to go can be overridden.

We may want something very much (good reception), we may have the opportunity to obtain what we want (applying aspect). Now we need power to act (accidental dignity). If the significator is in house 6 or 12 or is afflicted in some other way ther may be no action therefore no scholarship.
Taurus7 wrote:There is mixed reception between the two planets; Moon in it's face and Jupiter in its terms.
That is essential dignity of the individual planets, not reception.
Taurus7 wrote: 2) There is additional mixed reception, in that Moon is in a place where Jupiter is in dignity.
That is reception. And it is positive. It show she wants what Jupiter signifies.
Taurus7 wrote:3) Jupiter in itself signifies awards, higher learning, etc.
It is, but that does not count as an additional testimony.
Taurus7 wrote:4) In addition to this, the Moon almost exactly squares the MC.
This merely shows influence or connection between the Moon and the matters of that house. It is neither positive nor negative.
Taurus7 wrote:5) Part of Fortune and the Sun are in the 10th, I think these signify general good luck in terms of honors and rewards.
The Sun can be positive if it is esentially dignified, unless it rules some nasty house. If it is debilitatd esentially it is an affliction to that house.

Fortuna merely show the core of the question; it is not a testimony, as far as I am concerned.
Taurus7 wrote:If the Moon in the 2nd chart was to be read as a passage of events, then it appears that the Moon first sextiles Jupiter (scholarship), and then goes on to conjunct Saturn, ruler of the 9th, which is the University.
Which house is the Moon in?

Is the Moon free from any affliction such as another planet by aspect or antiscion, or the South Node?

Please post the chart if you would like a more concrete opinion.
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net

3
felipeastrologo
Thank you so much for taking a look at this and your excellent feedback. I really appreciate your feedback.
Since you say that the first question is valid, I am posting both.

My judgement for the 1st chart follows the image. My judgement for the 2nd chart was in my first post.

Here are the charts for the two questions:
Question 1: March 18 2017, 7:55 PM, Kinnelon NJ USA (74w22 41N)

Will I get the scholarship?

Image
In this chart, she is signified by Venus and the Moon, but Moon also rules the 10th (scholarship offered by university, house 9, 2nd from 9th), so we would have to give Venus to her.

Moon is positioned in the 3rd, and there is no aspect between the Moon and Venus. However, in this particular case, Jupiter - the natural ruler of awards - is positioned in her ASC. Does the scholarship come to her?

Now Mercury rules the 9th, which is the university. If Moon can be considered the passage of events, then I see the Moon separating from Mercury (ruler of the 9th, University) and coming to a sextile to Jupiter (the scholarship) positioned in the first. So the Moon is translating the light from the University to the Award which is positioned in the ASC.

The Moon is also almost exactly trine Mercury, but separating. Not sure if that means anything.

Question 2: March 19, 2017; 12:25 PM, Kinnelon, NJ USA
Should I apply for the scholarship?
Image
Judgement for this was presented in my first post.

All in all, I find both charts to be positive. But I would really appreciate your feedback after looking at these charts. The background of this is that she previously applied for 2 other prestigious scholarships, and she was placed on the waiting list for BOTH, which in itself was a great accomplishment to be on the wait list, but she still missed both of them, which was a huge disappointment for her.

However, this one is the MOST prestigious of them all!
Thank you again for taking the time to look at this.

Taurus7

5
Why did she miss the other two scholarships?
It's difficult to figure out why she was not chosen, many criteria are involved. She is an undergraduate, she applied in her first and second year as an Undergraduate. Maybe she did not have enough extra-curricular activities at that time, and the other ones were perhaps in their 3rd or 4rth years with more experience, so they got the award. But like I said, she applied TWICE, in her first and then again second year, and made it to the wait list both times, which is extremely unlikely statistically, so if any of the recipients dropped out of the scholarship, she would have gotten it. But no one dropped out. She was crushed, and I know how hard she worked when she applied for those.

The current scholarship is different from those two, and more prestigious. Her life would be set if she got this one. She has received lots of other scholarships over the years, and now she has lots more extra curricular experience to back up her qualifications.
Before I give you my feedback, tell me: what do you see in the second chart that I mentioned in my first post that is important to analyze?
I'm assuming you want me to apply the principles you listed to the chart "Will I get the scholarship?" So here goes..

1) It is OK to ask before applying.
Now we need power to act (accidental dignity). If the significator is in house 6 or 12 or is afflicted in some other way ther may be no action therefore no scholarship.
So for the chart "Will I get the scholarship?", she is Venus and the Moon. Venus is in the 7th, so that is good accidental dignity. Furthermore, although Venus is in its detriment, it is also in its terms and for some reason, Solar fire is giving it the highest points of any planet (+6), so I'll take that as "not bad". The Moon is in it's face, so while a weak dignity, it's better than being in its fall or detriment. Neither are in 6th or 12th.

If Jupiter rules house 10 that is why it is the scholarship, not because it is Jupiter. Accidental rulership has precedence over natural rulership, if accidental rulership is available.
2) In this particular case, the scholarship is ruled by the Moon, and the Moon is applying to Jupiter in the first, so I took that as a positive. While Jupiter does not rule any of the houses related to the scholarship, but it is the natural significator of rewards I believe, and it is positioned in the first, so for those reasons, Jupiter takes on significance and becomes relevant.

We also have to evaluate whether your daughter has power to act.

To be honest, I'm not sure as per the chart if she has the power to act. Realistically and personally, I know she does.
Is the Moon free from any affliction such as another planet by aspect or antiscion, or the South Node?
In this chart, the Moon is separating from a trine to Mercury, which signifies the University, and in fact, Mercury is also separating from a conjunction with her, Venus in the 7th. So it is separating, but it is also translating from MERC to Jupiter, so I took that as positive.

But then again, I think you definitely know more than me :)

Thank you again for taking the time to read this chart. I hope I answered your question.

Taurus7

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Incidentally, I took a look at the rulerships of the 11th house on Skyscript:
Traditionally known as the 'house of Good Fortune', the 11th house has rulership over friends and friendship, supporters, benefactors and those that help us directly or behind the scenes.....
It represents parliament and councils generally, and supporters of the government or ruling power.

I think the 7th house is very important in the "Will I get the scholarship chart", because it has Venus and Mercury in it. Venus is almost exactly conjunct the DESC and applying to it (it's retro). So the radical 7th is in fact, the turned 11th from the 9th.
So this might be pushing it, but she is coming to a conjunction to the benefactors of the University and councils, and in fact, the scholarship is offered by the benefactors of the University and a council. So, just thought I might mention that...

I know that might be pushing it, and I'm probably reading more than the chart has to offer :)

7
Hi Taurus7,

Before writing my comments I would like to make a disclaimer.

I will give you my interpretation according to the techniques I know and use, which may differ from yours.

Horary charts are given to a particular astrologer for a reason. You are the astrologer to whom these charts were given. So your interpretation is final. So I reserve the right to be wrong! :-)

Quick question:
Some technical comments to your thoughts before getting into my interpretations:
Taurus7 wrote:ISo for the chart "Will I get the scholarship?", she is Venus and the Moon. Venus is in the 7th, so that is good accidental dignity. Furthermore, although Venus is in its detriment, it is also in its terms
Detriment is much stronger than term. You can disregard term here. She is very debilitated. I comment further below. Venus is also retrograde, which takes power away or sends power in an undesirable direction.
Taurus7 wrote:and for some reason, Solar fire is giving it the highest points of any planet (+6), so I'll take that as "not bad".


You may disregard what Solar Fire tells you about that. Those "points" have no actual meaning. They are the result of additions of incompatible measurements. It's like adding "one kilogram to a kilometer"; it is not possible. We cannot measure strength by adding things that cannot be added together.
Taurus7 wrote:To be honest, I'm not sure as per the chart if she has the power to act. Realistically and personally, I know she does.


The second chart shows us she does not. The Moon is in house 6. Wanting to act is different from being able to act in a significant way.
Taurus7 wrote:I think the 7th house is very important in the "Will I get the scholarship chart", because it has Venus and Mercury in it. Venus is almost exactly conjunct the DESC and applying to it (it's retro).


It could be important. But you have to analyze the rulers. And Mercury is a problem for Venus here. Venus and Mars will not aspect and Mars is also in detriment. There's nothing favorable in their relationship except that they are in mutual reception meaning that Mars wants to help, but it has no power.
Taurus7 wrote:So the radical 7th is in fact, the turned 11th from the 9th.
So this might be pushing it, but she is coming to a conjunction to the benefactors of the University and councils, and in fact, the scholarship is offered by the benefactors of the University and a council. So, just thought I might mention that...


Yes, that's pushing it. :-)

====================
FIRST CHART
====================
Scholarship = Moon
Querent = Venus

Moon does not aspect Venus. The answer is "no". End of judgement.

Does the chart show why? I think so.

The Moon is in the 3rd house in the sign of Jupiter, ruler of the 3rd house of our daily routine and conjunct the star Antares. Jupiter is retrograde and influences the querent's house. Translation: He daily routine has a strong bearing on the outcome and has power over the Moon. Antares is a strong testimony for things "not starting" as it is the "death star", that is: ending, rather than starting.

The Moon is conjunct Pluto by antiscion. This is on overal negative affliction that needs no detailing. Pluto simply makes thigs difficult and is a general spoil-sport.

Venus is in detriment and retrograde and is conjunct Mercury with negative reception by detriment from Mercury towards Venus. Mercury is a major affliction to Venus and to the Moon (by close trine).

The Moon, as the querent's consignificator, is in negative reception by detriment towards Mercury. Translation: emotionally she rejects Mercury. Venus is angular, so it can act, but so is Mercury which afflicts Venus and upsets her power. Venus in detriment shows she is not prepared to tackle the situation. Retrograde adds further weakness.

What could Mercury be?

The ruler of house 9: higher studies. Translation: the study she will have to put into preparing for acceptance is a problem.

Moon is translating light from Mercury to Jupiter. If we take your interpretation: "school going to scolarship". There is no real life corroboration to that. The school does not get a scholarship. We need the "her" to get a scholarship. Horary reflects real life.

But, again, suppose Jupiter is the scholarship and the Moon the querent, then the Moon gets the scholarship. But you have to ignore the main significators and twist the chart a bit to do that. Personally I would not do that. We have clear accidental significators by house rulership. They take precedence over natural rulers, in my technique. But this is your chart?

====================
SECOND CHART
====================
Scholarship = Jupiter
Querent = Moon

Moon in SAG: it wants Jupiter. Good.

Moon sextiles Jupiter next: the opportunity to obtain the scholarship is present. Good.

Her ability to perform certain duties in order to be accepted is a crucial part of the judgement. If she cannot perform the required preparation tasks she will not get the scholarship.

The Moon is in the 6th house. Not good. That tells us that she does not have the strength to perform. From the context you gave us it likely means she has too much on her plate so she cannot take on more to do. That's what "not having power to act" mean in practice here.

Jupiter opposes Uranus, another "ending" testimony for the scholarship.

Again, we have the ruler of the 3rd house having an influence on the outcome: the Sun in the 10th house.

My answer would be:

You can get the scholarship, but it will be difficult and will take a lot of work that will put a lot of pressure on you. Are you sure you are able to make the effort and take more on at this time? Or something to that effect.

Can she apply later when she is feer? I would definitely give that suggestion if it hat is a possibility because the chart shows she can be accepted. It's just that now does not seem to be the right time. She can try later when in a better position.

I hope your interpretation is the correct one.

Let us know how it develops.

Best wishes.
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net

8
Thank you so much for taking the time to analyze both charts! I know I was reading more than I should...
I'm typing on my phone right now so difficult to comment more. I do have a few questions so I will follow up tomorrow.
I can't deny I'm disappiinted... :(
But we have to accept what the horary is telling you.
Incidentally, the application process starts is July to September, with interview in Oct, if application is good, and result in November.
You mentioned now is not the right time. So when might be the right time?
Also, if the first chart says no, then why does the end chart say that she should apply. I know she is capable of working really hard to try and get through the application process.
Thank you!

9
Hi Taurus7,
Taurus7 wrote:You mentioned now is not the right time. So when might be the right time?


Assuming my answer is correct, the right time is when she is able to cope with the requirements of the application. That would be the question for another horary in the future, when the opportunity appears again and if she still wants it.
Taurus7 wrote:Also, if the first chart says no, then why does the end chart say that she should apply.


I din't say she should apply. That is a decision for her to make. I don't tell people what they should do. What I have given you is a perspective on the situation based on what you told me about her and based on what the chart tells me.

In summary: she wants the scholarship, there is an opportunity but she is too debilitated. Based on that she can make a decision.

The picture I get is that she is biting more than she can chew. But I hope I am wrong.

If she decides she can take it on then it is better to follow that drive instead of my interpretations. It is my opinion that following what one thinks or feels to be right overrules any horary interpretation, specially the ones that show a negative answer.
--
Felipe Oliveira
http://traditionalmedicalastrology.org
http://medicalastrologer.net

10
I don't agree with Frawley's teachings on reception, but my opinion is more or less the same as felipeastrologo's.

Interesting that the Cancer MC of chart 1 is the ASC of chart 1, within just a few minutes of arc. Maybe reflecting your daughter putting herself more in the driving seat.

Chart 2 having Moon and Saturn in 6th is a bit part of it for me. I hope we're all wrong though and I second what felipeastrologo said about your daughter trusting her own judgement on this. It's her life and only she really knows, deep down inside, what's best for her to do.

Chart 1 Libra ASC with ruler Venus sitting right on the DSC - with just a few seconds of arc separating them - to me probably shows how important it was that your daughter was in two minds about what she was asking about.

Both horaries were done a month ago so I'm curious to learn whether, during that time, your daughter settled on any course of action or if she still feels like she's not sure what to do for the best?

MW
"As thou daily conversest with the heavens, so instruct and form thy minde according to the image of Divinity" ~ William Lilly

11
The picture I get is that she is biting more than she can chew. But I hope I am wrong.
The applications for this scholarship have to be submitted from July to September. The scholarship is awarded based on some essays that she needs to write - which I don't think is a big deal, these essays can be written over the course of a week - but the bulk of the decision I think is based on her accomplishments in the past. She does have an excellent "resume", so to speak. She is not taking any courses over the summer, so the workload will not be intense either.

She has applied to a few things for the summer, and she has been accepted by two of them. But these are paid positions for the summer, most students work in the summer, and none of these paid opportunities will be labor intensive.

So I don't think she would be unable to deliver what is required by the applications, so not sure how it fits in terms of what you say here?

However, one of her applications for the summer - the result of which she will know in the next couple of weeks - is an opportunity to go to Kyrgyztan, where she would go into a Russian immersion program to become fluent in Russian. If they accept her into this program, she will definitely take it, because it is fully paid, etc, and also a great opportunity. This program will take place in the duration that the applications need to be submitted. I'm wondering if this may the reason for the "debility"?

Of course, the other reason would be if her essays don't cut it, or her qualifications are insufficient, and others are better qualified.

In terms of the background information I just gave you, what do you think?

12
Interesting that the Cancer MC of chart 1 is the ASC of chart 1, within just a few minutes of arc. Maybe reflecting your daughter putting herself more in the driving seat.
You know, I missed that! That is interesting. But I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean?

Chart 2 having Moon and Saturn in 6th is a bit part of it for me. I hope we're all wrong though and I second what felipeastrologo said about your daughter trusting her own judgement on this. It's her life and only she really knows, deep down inside, what's best for her to do.

I hope you're both wrong too lol! :wink:

Both horaries were done a month ago so I'm curious to learn whether, during that time, your daughter settled on any course of action or if she still feels like she's not sure what to do for the best?
The application process for the scholarship is from July to Sep, so she hasn't focused on that yet. She's been busy applying for other stuff for the summer, and her current semester studies. If you check my previous post, you can a better understanding of more background information. I personally think she will apply when the time comes. The question is, why is she debilitated?

Thank you for taking the time to look at both charts.