13
mark, i think it is unfair for you to say what you did here..


Ok. Now you have clarified your position I can see simply we had our wires crossed.

I frankly, never read the earlier part of the thread from 14 years ago. I saw you discussing ''the chart for Zimbabwe'' and assumed you were making your own contribution based on the link you provided with a chart and the following comments:

i haven't done any exhaustive study of either his or the chart for zimbabwe.. perhaps i or someone else would like to do this?

here is a relevant chart for the gov't of mugabe 1980 from marjorie orr's site..

https://i0.wp.com/www.star4cast.ca/wp-c ... g-govt.jpg
I assumed this was the chart you were discussing!

Moreover, when I made the point that I didn't favour the 4th March chart for Zimbabwe you came back with the following comment in your reply:
as for the chart from marjorie - march 4th 1980 - for what she referred to as i recall as the mugabe gov't chart, it would seem to be an important date and that is why i shared it... indeed it is not a timed chart as you point out!!
I assumed you were still using that chart but I had thought you made a mistake in thinking it was a timed chart.

My bad I guess for never reading the start of the thread I suppose. That might have made your position clearer to me.

In any case its a simple misunderstanding James. No need to get worked up about it.
i went with the chart that deb is using and others have been using for zimbabwe.. i didn't just rely on nic campion - although he is probably the best source for doing so, and i definitely at no time suggested the march chart was more significant then the one being used for zimbabwe - the april chart... not sure why you say all this, other then to cast my comments in some superficial light, which again - seems really unfair..
Ok. Again you do seem to be getting over sensitive about this. Do keep in mind this isn't a PM discussion between just you and I. I know this forum can be a quiet backwater but it is still a public forum. You habitually seem to assume every passing comment is aimed at you personally ! I was making a general comment that I think its good to do ones own research on charts. If there was any implied criticism I didn't have you in mind. I enjoy doing a bit of historical digging and finding fresh angles on charts. I see you as rather similar. Hence I complemented you on the fact you had done so much original research on middle eastern charts. You have become quite an authority on that area. Maybe I could have worded it better but I was rushing off to work. Frankly James you seem determined to find imagined slights and insults lurking everywhere. Honestly, I give up!

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

14
thanks mark,

i can see why after you said all that.. i could have made myself more clear by pointing out i was using the chart that deb had posted, but i didn't.. i only wanted to add that march chart as well, as it seemed like an additional important date.. i have only worked with the midnight april 1980 chart!

and, i think you are right about my sensitivity, but here is something to ponder - yes, i have moon in scorpio rising with sun in aries - always ready to pounce on some comment when it doesn't have anything to do with me - i agree, but it is interesting how you also have this position, except it is descending, instead of rising!!! we are a good match for one another!!! i have thought about this a lot in terms of our interaction.. maybe you have too!! on a personal note - i keep on thinking about the transit of pluto and how it is impacting the ruler of my chart here as well... and, we also have some contacts in that same area.. i guess this is pm ot stuff for sure...

where do you see zimbabwe going in the next few years? it looks like the situation is one of great uncertainty in the short term - 1-2 years... hopefully zimbabwe will not be under the leadership of some strong man, but it seems like this guy in the wings is exactly that..

my thinking is this : new leader - military guy and a type of military rule... the country hands over itself to corporations willing to rape and pillage and the typical front of 'democracy' is pitched with an election where they elect the military guy... that is what i get from saturn in 8th, moving to conjunct midheaven by solar arc, sa moon- uranus moving to connect with sun, sa mars - moving to conjunct pluto and a few other things like that... lets see how it plays out... if the western press is cheering, i generally view that as a bad sign, being the contrarian i am..

16
This is just a wild guess. I am wondering if his Moon's North Node could be conjunct his Midheaven. That would be a fame aspect. It would put his Sun on his IC, the king of his homeland.

There is a pattern of Sun opposition Moon's North Node, that is 22.5 degrees to Mercury. The Moon's North Node 22.5 degrees to Mercury could have a potentially sociopathic tinge, and why I think this aspects the chart angles is because it is playing out on the world stage.

Transiting Jupiter has just squared his Mercury, but that is just the proximate trigger of a much bigger transit. Transiting IsisTranspluto is conjunct his Moon's North Node in Virgo. I am wondering if this is also where his Midheaven is.

Maybe something like this. Maybe just slightly later, putting the Ascendant/Midheaven midpoint about 22 degrees Libra, squaring IsisTranspluto, and being hit by transiting Pluto in Libra when Zimbabwe became independent in 1980?

If his Ascendant is about 12 degrees Sagittarius, then in 1980 when he was 56, its Solar Arc would be about 8 degrees Aquarius, conjunct his natal Mercury.
Image

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Thanks for putting this up James. I saw the ceremony live myself yesterday. Swearing in started at 11.42 and finished around 11.44 with him signing his name to become President.

Never looks good when the Moon symbolizing the people is stuck in the 12th house. Not sure he is actually worse than Mugabe. Mugabe had such a terrible record its an exceptionally hard act to follow. I think I agree with Marjorie Orr on this. More of the same. I cant see him embracing democracy or political pluralism. But he might at least improve the economic situation of the country and generate more jobs for the average Zimbabweian. There is a heavy 9th house emphasis in innaguratation chart with Jupiter in Scorpio ruling the 1st and 10th house. On a positive interpretation this could indicate more foreign trade and investment. Although as with much of sub-Saharan Africa corruption is the major obstacle to wealth creation.

Mugabe destroyed the economy and turned 'the bread basket' of southern Africa into an economic disaster with 90% unemployment. He presided over ethnic genocide, systematic torture and murder of political opponents. He and his cronies indulged in corruption on a massive scale, and turned a democratic constitution into a brutal one party state. Unlike Nelson Mandela who brought together people of all races Mugabe indulged in a racist vendetta against White farmers and made blatant homophobia state policy. All of this led to International ostracism of the country and economic sanctions.

Incidentally, I really think this thread has had its day. Well overtime for a new thread on Zimbabwe!

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

18
mark,

i agree.. i had thought of starting a new thread on zimbabwe, but thought it was an entertaining revisit given the statement - 'why is he still around' post in 2003!

the jupiter in scorpio in the 9th as ruler of the 1st does seem more positive.. then there is moon in the 12th, but it is applying directly to the ascendant/midheaven ruler as well.. on the surface that looks positive.. however, this new leader was around for most all of what mugabe is apparently responsible for - he was his advisor and must have been involved in many of the problems that have been articulated already.. jupiter in scorpio certainly would seem like opening the country up to foreign investment - whatever that might mean these days.. and mercury is exact 45 this jupiter as well, so all roads seem to point to the importance of jupiter in scorpio here...

i look at the mars/pluto square with the sun/midheaven close to it's midpoint and i feel that more strong-arm or worse tactics will continue.. a new set of individuals will be given the keys to reap the resource base of zimbabwe.. neptune rising is a good cover for it all too..incidentally it looks as though neptune is close to stationary direct, although i can't quite tell with my bastardized version of solar fire.. that would place greater emphasis on neptune from yet another angle..