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Tanit3333 wrote:
Some people supposedly don't notice significant Saturn transits/progressions/profections. How nice life must be for them.
LOL, no kidding! :lol:

"Wet blankets" are underrated.
I appreciate this, I'm trying to sort this out and totally agree on so much info being redundant. The vast amount of info/misinfo/disinfo out here is confusing, and I am trying to figure this out for myself.

Is there a distinct difference between a profection and a progression?
I'm reading that profection (if I'm comprehending this) is basically a progression that leads into the time lords Hellenistic technique. Is this correct?

Don't give the gender thing a thought- jac is short for a much longer, very feminine name.

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hi jac,

i too want to compliment the posters offering you astro insight into your chart via the different predictive tools being used..

to answer your question - profections are moving the chart 1 whole sign per year... from birth you start with the ascendant on your chart and it progresses 1 sign a year... in your 13th year, you are back to the beginning sign.. one looks at the ruler of the sign and tries to dovetail it with the data off the solar return chart and the position of this ruler in the natal chart and the solar return chart to form a view on the type of year a person is going to have.. this is a system that was in use prior to placidus coming up with secondary progs which are essentially equating one day to one year of your life... with secondary progs - you can see what is going on 60 days after you were born for some symbolic significance for your 60th year...

so, essentially they are symbolic tools for trying to gleam some insight into the future basically... that is the quick over view on these 2 predictive tools you ask about..

there are various types of progressions, secondary progressions being one of a few that are popular with astrologers... i like solar arc directions myself.. these are moving everything approx 1 degree per year forward... again - it is just another type of progression aimed at getting more insight into what might be happening in a persons life for a particular year...

i hope you are able to work out the challenges at this time in a way that helps you to stay positive.. cheers james

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James- thank you for the pithy explanation. I've been to several sites seeking an explanation and no one seems capable of spitting out the facts as you just did.

Do you know this to actually work? Perhaps it's my lousy Cap predisposition, but it seems a bit 'thin' to me. Even the one degree per year sounds more credible. Again, I'm not saying they're crap, just that it's a little hard for me to accept.

Maybe I'm getting old, but I sometimes wonder if tptb are deliberately trying to cloud our understanding with all these alternate methods. i.e., I suspect astro.com's chart program isn't even listing all the house systems... How much do we actually need for this to work?

I say this knowing full well brilliant texts are rotting under the vatican, and the illuminati wants nothing more than to keep us peasants in the dark.

Thanks for your thoughtful input James!

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Thanks for the input Tanit, I'll check out Chris Brennan's site.
Some of the best astrologers I've come across were novices, believe it or not. I've come across too many astrologers within the last 20 years who attempt to substitute psychology for astrology and think they can get away with it.

Besides, I've been trying to learn this (as in become "adept") for an embarrassing number of decades. (I want to actually KNOW things.)

Got no software, have accurate birth time.
I once aspired to be an astrologer/astronomer who didn't need anything more than a pencil & paper. (What was I thinking...?)

Fifteen degrees in Cancer 2nd house or intercepted chart?
My word, this is confusing... perhaps some videos will make sense of it.

Your being born in May, yet feeling a change in November makes me wonder if you have a mutual reception like I do. I'm end of January, but get a "charge" in Leo. Interesting. What have you got in the 8th or 9th house, or powerful aspects to Scorpio or Sag?

I appreciate your posts, really I do!

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hi jac,

your first question is a good question to ask! i ask it all the time!! sometimes it seems to me some of the techniques work and sometimes they don't.. but maybe it is my inability to put it all together, as opposed to some system of prediction working well or not.. i like transit data and i like solar arc data.. i am receptive to other types of data and am always on the lookout for a system that can be demonstrated consistently.. so, i am always learning..

no one knows what a person is going to do with the same type of set up as someone else.. we're all different.. i know.. it can be seen in the chart, lol, but i do believe there is a lot that is not seen in the chart.. maybe some other force is at work that lies beyond our immediate comprehension and we have to be guided by something outside our comfort zone - our rational mind..

astrology is just one tool and it isn't for everyone.. there are other tools to understanding life and our position in the world.. meditation, silence, dreaming and etc. etc..

what is really important in life? so much is not important and many people spend a lot of time chasing after stuff that is really unimportant.. asking these kinds of questions deeply maybe only happen when a person is confronted with really difficult life situations..

i can look at the astrology to go with your chart, but you have to live it and even if i or someone else was to say - hey, you will get thru this - you have to be the one to live it and want to make it to the next phase of your life..

so maybe we don't need much of any of these astro systems to work for us to still be living in a way that means something to us.. or for us to feel the need to live and to have a reason to live.. my default answer when i am pushed is i don't know the answers.. i can come up with a lot of answers, but they might not be the right answers for someone else..

do you remember the conversations we had back in the past year about the nodal axis transiting your mercury and clouding your thinking? i still think a lot of this is going on and it makes it challenging for you to be objective here.. i also believe saturn is bearing down on your chart in an especially challenging way - 12th house transit to your sun and 1st house transit to your ascendant.. i think it is a difficult time for you based on the astrology that i see.. maybe you have to let go a lot of everything in order for you to move to a new place of awareness? i do believe that, but i don't know what that means for you personally...

good luck my friend.. we are all in it together in some way shape and form...
james

jac wrote:
Do you know this to actually work?

Maybe I'm getting old, but I sometimes wonder if tptb are deliberately trying to cloud our understanding with all these alternate methods. i.e., I suspect astro.com's chart program isn't even listing all the house systems... How much do we actually need for this to work?

!

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James- LOL It's great to have people to commiserate with! (Even though I often think the root word is misery!)

The real hooks for astrology, to me, anyway, are the geometry/math.
Numbers don't go away. They follow one around. This is also why I get suspicious of methods that seem to take excessive liberties and bend the rules. It may sound odd coming from an aquarian, but the inventive/electric/genius mode has it's place just as the structure/crystallization/taskmaster does. Now to put the characteristic perverted aquarian twist on this, I trust the math(capricorn), but I go by feeling/intuition/psychic sense,(aq). I trust that you can track through the equations, but if a buzz doesn't come off of it, it may be a dud. Like the magnets before the electricity.

Yes, I do recall our conversation, and I recently referred to it, thinking; so that clouded thinking has passed? wth is wrong with me then? And I am getting rid of things, but it's not a fast process.

No, astrology absolutely isn't a 'one-size-fits-all' discipline/study/meditation. Lately people seem to be getting hung up on one placement or aspect. I think a lot more emphasis should be placed on synthesis, which can't happen with no knowledge of basics.

I find these asteroids and Arabic stars to be particularly interesting, but so far they all seem to underline the constellations they're part of. Almost like a cosmic version of the Sabian symbols.

For me, the problem with oracles of divination is; who or what can access these and for what means? And to what end? Digressing a tad, I find that the most powerful omens or indicators just GRASP my attention. Never fails. Also leaves me wondering just how far 'out to lunch' I am.

Do you recall me posting that horrifying prognostication I got back in the fall? Everyone said it was b.s., but I got a foreboding powerful charge off of it, and IT turned out to be dead on. I wish I could find out what method HE was using, but he will not respond. I searched and searched for the archaic, occult references and came up empty, empty, empty.

There's something very powerful out here, and it's not being shared.
Spooky, isn't it?

One of the reasons I got into this in the first place is to have a more comprehensive understanding of, everything. I'd look at as many charts as possible, and remember when it was expensive to get computer generated charts run. I'd get sidetracked by what I thought was the weirdness of my own chart. All these years later, I find through another comparative online generator that my partner & I share '9 exact aspects' (?) Now I'm wondering if that's fairly commonplace. I frequently cheat by going to these convenient generators (my eyes are less than pristine) instead of doing the math I'm spouting off about.

On 'living your own chart'... the natives say; Dance your own dance. Joni Mitchell said 'people will tell you where they've been, they'll tell you where to go, but till you get there, yourself, you never really know'.

Just some thoughts my dear.


Tanit- Ok, now I get it. I got confused by your mention of degree and May bday, but you're talking profections. What a wild ride they took you on- I trust all went well! Your substantiation of their efficacy makes me want to examine this even more. No, obsessing about the future isn't useful. Having some indication of what's around the corner can give a nice heads-up though.

My god, your bus driver is goofy? I swear there is an activated obsession trigger in progress. The maniac I have pending litigation with fixated on me for a year and a half before completely losing her s#!t.

I recall being out in a sudden violent storm during a road trip many years back, and digging out a daily aspect journal. Saturn opp Pluto or some such. It read: "Life is just hard." Immediately after reading it aloud, we passed an entire tractor-trailer flatbed dangling off a freeway overpass.

We're all living that ancient Chinese curse: "May you have an interesting life." Drove us to astrology.

Again, thank you for the tips, I think I'll have some down time over the next few days to listen to Mr. Brennan. ;)

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james_m wrote:astrology is just one tool and it isn't for everyone.. there are other tools to understanding life and our position in the world.. meditation, silence, dreaming and etc. etc..

what is really important in life? so much is not important and many people spend a lot of time chasing after stuff that is really unimportant.. asking these kinds of questions deeply maybe only happen when a person is confronted with really difficult life situations..
Profound.

Sometimes scenarios play out while I'm in the midst of playing music or creating art. Didn't Kempton-Smith once mention some lady who (god forbid) saw 'the God' in cheese? Sorry. Stupid sag rising manifests again.

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I'm going to focus on solar arcs for awhile, then profections. The firdaria seems a bit much right now, but I'll work my way toward it. The predictive is something I need to get a feel for, and in fact seems to be absolutely essential. Don't know why I assumed it was only for very advanced practitioners.

Tanit, have you plumbed the 3rd house regarding transportation issues?

Wouldn't a malevolent bus driver fall into the 12th house- hidden enemies, if in fact he or she is malevolent, and not just fearful, apprehensive and hiding behind a harsh facade. Is striking up light conversation out of the question? If it went off, you'd have a familiar ally.

Buses are too often like a rolling crucible showcasing the worst society has to offer. I don't know if you have alternatives available to you such as car pooling, or even feel safe in alternative forms of travel.

A psychologist might say you have an unjustified phobia, but someone else might suggest you're picking up on something that is a genuine danger to you. You have a feeling about it. Who's to say if that's a bonafide self-preservation mechanism or something to be overcome. Deep down, that's yours.

Is it legal for you to carry mace where you live (and does that matter?)
Would that make you more secure and agree with your Mars?

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hi jac,

the numbers, geometry and math has a lot of symbolism built into it too..

with regard to solar arc data, here is how i approach it... i think the natal chart is central to any interpretation of these other predictive tools... in your chart - saturn is important, rising in the ascendant.. it happens to be in a trine to pluto... at present, the transit of these 2 planets puts them together in capricorn in an important part of your chart.. in the solar arc directions they are in opposition to one another via saturn moving forward approx 60 degrees to be in opp to pluto.. for me - the trine is favourable, so the relationship between these 2 planets is a positive for your particular chart... it doesn't mean whenever these 2 planets get together it is going to be easy for you, but just that you have the means to utilize this in a positive way.. if on the other hand these 2 planets were set up in hard aspect with one another, or not in any aspect with one another natally - i would read their connection in the solar arc direction chart differently..

as for my comment a 1/2 year or so ago about mercury on the south node - this shows up for the solar return chart.. just how much bearing the solar return chart has at this moment in time is an open question... again - it is another predictive tool that takes a snapshot of the suns return to it's position from birth for the present year...

hopefully that helps clarify for you and others how i use solar arc data! i do believe transit data and solar arc data overlap and some useful insights can be gotten overlapping this data as well..

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Hi James.

The symbolism in numbers is powerful, but I'm referring to straight up equations. Math of and within itself. Anything not making sense: "Do the math!" The empiric nature of it.

I'm just wetting my toes in the solar arc material. I don't know why I thought one had to be very advanced to use these, the name itself sounds like a lots of formulation. It sounds like everyone has their own ideas of what constitutes a proper orb, and it seems to very depending on the planet.

I appreciate the tips! It all strikes me as overlap, I'm trying to make distinctions. I'm checking out some of the wealth of youtube videos on this, and then I'll dig out some books I've got on the subject.

Much appreciated! ;)

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jac wrote:Hello Alex.

Thank you checking out my chart.

The reference periods you mentioned in the past were a vast improvement over my current time period. All of them.

Your time and attention are greatly appreciated, as your good wishes.
But if the past references are indicator of the present and future, things should be looking up.

Though I wish this were the case, how this could happen eludes me.
Of course, each life period depends on the context of the situation as it was at some point in life.

What I wanted to say is that changes are similar to previous ones. During the changes, each of these periods was difficult in its own way. Or exhausting or stressful... in any case, hard as it is now the case.

Because of this, I said that the difficult period will continue. That doesn't mean it will end badly. Just like the previous ones didn't end badly in your words.

Whether something will end, good or bad, depends on previous events in your life. It is very important, what in those previous periods, which I mentioned, started, because something that then started can cease to exist in this period, in the way as it was until now.

So in order to predict future events, of course you need astrological knowledge, but also knowledge of a person's life history, that only you know.

That's why I gave you links in your past. To conclude on your own. What changed completely then, and that you know what will change completely in this period.

Of course, all this has to be viewed from the present context of life, beacouse now is different than it used to be.

What will be the same is how you felt in those previous periods. And that is always a stressful period, and a feeling that we are not ruling with our own lives.

I hope that I managed to write understandable given the English language :)