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Epstein was discovered dead at 6:30AM, in New York. Here is the chart for that time.
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Here are some of my thoughts. Feel free to criticize them.

This is rather curious chart; there is a trine between Sun (as lord asc) and the benefic Jupiter; however, Jupiter is accidentally the Lord 8th, of death. The moon, lady 12th, is conjoining Jupiter. Perhaps this is an example of when benefic planets kill? Also note Algol is in the 10th house (it is closer to the MC in mundo than it appears in the chart), another malefic significator. In turn, Neptune is nearly conjunct the cusp of the 8th; the death was indeed unexpected.

Mars, lord 9th is under the beams in the 12th house. I take this as a sign the matter will not be tried in a court.

The 3rd house is ruled by Venus. Venus is combust in the 12th house. I take that as a sign the true nature of this incident will not be communicated to the public. The moon, Lady of the 12th, is trine to Venus, Lady 10th. There is perhaps some secret concord between those in power and those who hold the secrets of the matter.

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Edward - I am not sure how to look at this chart. To me it seems like a chart for a discovery of an unconscious person. We don't know if he died before they found him or after, or at the hospital. He was not monitored for several hours before they discovered him. There is little information about his death but he was declared dead at the hospital, so he might have still been alive but unresponsive.

One interesting thing is that this chart is quite similar to Trump's, though. He has Mars in Leo at 26 degrees on the ASC and Moon in Sag at 21 degrees.
Perhaps this is an example of when benefic planets kill?
Moon is applying to Mars, not Jupiter. It already aspected Jupiter, then Venus, then Sun (is separating from them), and is applying to Mars (giving the light of the ascendant ruler, Sun, to Mars). I would say this is probably an example where the benefics are not able to aid. Venus is combust in the 12th and Jupiter is retrograde and below the earth.

Combustion is said to be the best time to commit a crime and get away with it. I would say if anything Mars is suspect and it is peculiar how it relates to Trump's chart.

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Fleur wrote:Tanit, I am considering this chart too, not sure it would work for what I am looking at. If it is this chart, then he may have had a bad childhood and struggled socially in his youth, which turned around around the end of the 1980's, when he was in his late thirties. Major long term transits to his natal Moon start off bad from birth, and improve at the end of the 1980's. That is not to excuse him, as true evil can usually be seen by some aspects to Venus, which he has.

That Jupiter square Moons Nodes suggests wealth through his social contacts. I agree, it isn't obvious how he made his money. Transiting IsisTranspluto crossed the Descendant of this chart from the early 1960's, indicating contact with others who have power and wealth.

I see Saturn and Jupiter as the planets of wealth, and in this chart Saturn's antiscion squares his Midheaven and Jupiter squares his Ascendant, and both were getting positive long term major transits.

My guess is that he was brought to great wealth by his social contacts in high places, and equally he was thrown down and maybe even murdered when the long term good transits turned round against him.
Hi Fleur, Tanit & Stefan: This is a tentative sidereally rectified chart for Epstein with 18° Capricorn rising. I don't know if it will help but suffice to say I think what you have presented is good as good a candidate for his birth time as any presented and my independent view supports your tropical chart findings.
At 07:56 am sidereal Capricorn is rising and Rahu is afflicting the ascendant delivering a strong desire character that can and will take the one to immoral extremes. Twelfth lord Jupiter in 4th house conjunct the Bhava Madhya provides a great sense of loss, and leads to public degradation because of its affliction to the 10th house of the public. Jupiter also aspects the 8th house of death and death-like experiences. Tenth lord Mars and fourth lord Venus are conjunct in the 2nd house indicating high status that also connected to well-known position and strong fixed assets. When he died transiting Ketu was closely afflicting transiting second lord Saturn in the twelfth house of endings, while transiting Rahu was afflicting Mars and Venus in the second house from the sixth house of injury. There is more but this will suffice.

Tertiary Mars is indeed opposite natal Mercury but the aspect was separating and was exact in early July coinciding with his latest arrest. The tension for self harm is certainly there and P3 Ketu is applying and afflicting natal Saturn too at his death.
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Tanit3333 wrote: Moon is applying to Mars, not Jupiter. It already aspected Jupiter, then Venus, then Sun (is separating from them),
Thanks for pointing this out, Tanit!

The following twitter thread may be of interest:

https://twitter.com/astro_lass/status/1 ... 3349640193

They point out Taurus played a prominent role in Epstein's life and death. Jupiter was in Taurus in his nativity, and he died by an injury to the neck (ruled by Taurus). In fact, in the event chart of Epstein's death, we see taurus on the Midheaven. Indeed, the degree of the MC was very close to the position Epstein's natal Jupiter.

I should also point out the Sun and Venus were (in the chart of Epstein's death) applying to a square to the MC. This might have implications for rectification of his birth-time.

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Edward - I am not a Twitter person but I am guessing Jupiter could actually play a role in death by hanging because in death indicators it helps rule suffocation by means of obstruction of air (it rules the lungs), according to traditional text, such as book 4 of Tetrabiblos (chapter 9 on death indicators), but Simmonite (page 135 on violent deaths in The Arcana) says that hangings specifically can be shown by hard aspects from Saturn, especially oriental (he says in a fixed signs but Epstein's is not fixed but is oriental) to Sun, which Epstein has. This is also true in Jonathan Brandis' chart (he also had Jupiter in Taurus but his Sun-Saturn does not have Saturn fixed and it is occidental but it is also elevated above Sun):

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Brandis,_Jonathan
His chart has both luminaries square Saturn though, so it is hard to say which one might support the death more. Since it is a nocturnal chart I would think Moon is even more sensitive. I do think Epstein has a day chart, but I could be wrong.

Another famous person I can think of who died by hanging is Chris Cornell, who also had Jupiter in Taurus (conjunct Algol). There is no time of birth, though.

Simmonite says death while in prison can be shown by Saturn in the 1st opp Sun or Moon. He doesn't have Sun opp Saturn but this might support Saturn in the 1st house (square Sun and in a sign that opposes the Moon) - I am skeptical about that though.

Simmonite also says Mars in the 4th or 10th can show death by hanging but I am guessing the 10th more so relates to a public hanging.

My guess is that Epstein had Saturn elevated above Sun with the square, such as in the chart I posted. Since Saturn is oriental it might not matter as much, though. In Jonathan Brandis' chart his Saturn is elevated above but it is occidental. I don't necessarily think Jupiter has to rule the 8th or be in it to be relevant, though. I have it square the ascendant in the chart I posted, which could be a sensitive point and it aspects the 8th lord Mercury (via trine) like in Jonathan Brandis' chart. In Robin Williams' chart, his 8th is also ruled by Mercury which trines Jupiter (and he has Mars conjunct Uranus pretty close to the 8th). His Sun only sextiles an occidental Saturn and Sun is elevated above but it does still touch it:

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Williams,_Robin

I have a morbid fascination with death indicators (I have a lot of Pluto in my chart, including Venus opp Pluto and a Scorpio ruled 5th, so I am one of those weird people who finds the macabre both fascinating and oddly entertaining) and sometimes feel like I should put together a good thread of various sources (or maybe write some sort of document). I feel like this is a subject that is lacking in comprehensive information.

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I wouldn't recommend introducing proxy birth times. If you think about it, the odds of such a time being wrong are far greater than the odds of it being correct. 24 hours x 60 minutes = 1,440 minutes in a day. Even if you go by the hour, 1 hour / 24 is less than 5%.

Just to complicate matters, not only does the moon move 12 degrees per day, but the sun changed signs on Epstein's birth date. It is probably in 0 degrees Aquarius, which is what you get with a noon default birth time; but there is something like 1 chance in 8 that his sun was in 29 degrees Capricorn.

I think we're better off learning to read charts without houses. Ptolemy scarcely used them, so perhaps he's got some useful techniques for today.

Epstein and death

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The big thing that I notice about Robin Williams chart is that mercury, which rules his 8th house, in conjunct pluto and trine jupiter.
As an aside, I have noticed that when people died after a short of long illness, there are secondary progressions involving the ruler of the 6th and 8th houses. my late husband had SP mercury, which rules his 6th house was square SP pluto, which ruled his 8th house. Transiting saturn also was conjunct natal ascendent. My assumption is that people who die of accidents or unnatural means do not have these progressions or transits
AMY

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thanks fleur,

it is funny, but i must have gotten this data from somewhere else on the aa chart for maxwell as i have it already on my computer!

did anyone find an accurate chart for epstein??

what is interesting astrologically for me is the combust mars as lead planet rising ahead of sun and what mars rules in the chart - 6 and 11 houses in tropical, while it is 7 and 12th house in sidereal.. either way the very close square of pluto to ascendant degree is also interesting given the focus on sexual abuse that seems to surround this whole story..

in tropical mercury is in the 8th sign to ascendant gemini and the ascendant ruler... having the ascendant ruler in the 8th smacks of dubious character.. it happens to be in a close trine to aforementioned pluto as well.. and it is also technically combust and also conjunct mars... was it valens, or firmucus mathetios who mention the conjunct of mercury- mars as more given over to sexual perversion?? i can't remember.. i do recall though about it having something to do with sexually preying on young people - mars - sexual and mercury - young people..

using whole sign houses, saturn as ruler of capricorn - 8th sign to gemini rising is very problematic as well and again it revolves around exploiting others assets.. with such a heavy emphasis in the 8th house using whole sign houses, regardless if you use tropical or sidereal, the problems associated with the 8th house seem very pronounced here...

on the other hand a case could be made that maxwell has led a very fateful life and at the mercy of circumstances beyond her control.. i say this based on the western hemisphere emphasis seen in the chart.. usually this conveys a person who is more on the receiving end, then an initiator in where they find themselves in life...

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it is interesting in that if you look at the date she was arrested - july 2nd, you immediately see how transit mars is making an exact square to the sun-mars conjunction while transit mercury is making an exact opposition to natal mercury... mars-sun- mercury are in conjunction in her natal chart... mercury and mars are in square aspect at the time of her arrest..

because of the differences in how tropical and sidereal zodiac, one will see that with the use of sidereal, a fairly close conjunction between transit saturn and natal saturn... i would say this is a good example of pay back with the dynamic of saturn appearing at this time to bring home all of the past and the consequences to her past actions or inaction... also using sidereal, venus is the planet transiting close to her ascendant at this time and ruler of the taurus ascendant and again like the tropical chart ruler mercury, venus is in sag and the 8th house in her sidereal chart...

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I like the feel of Epstein's chart the 9 degrees Aquarius which Tanit posted, then at the time of death the progressed Asc is very close to Algol near the IC end of life house Algol death by hanging or choking & made to seem like hanging.
His profected house lord would be the Sun in the 12th house of prison, also Pluto in the 7th would be activated, powerful enemies on the 22nd kill or be killed degree.
Pluto was also transiting his 8th house ruler Mercury in the 12th house, so the powerful enemies from his 7th house catch up to him in prison.
How did he become so wealthy? Jupiter, being a diurnal chart is strong although peregrine but is in mutual reception with Venus exalted in Pisces angular & near the cusp of the second house which has the part of fortune in Aries, Mars its ruler is conjunct Venus too. Interestingly Jupiter's antiscion falls on Pluto in the 7th house, Powerful associates that probably turned enemies at the end of life. Secretive wealth. Saturn the second diurnal sect planet is in Libra conjunct Neptune but it is in a state of Munakara or contention.
The conjunction being in the 8th speaks to me of the partnership with Maxwell in filming the naive rich & famous on his island where they indulged in their sexual adventures, blackmail in other words.
Saturn eventually caught up with them both. Epstein's Sun & ascendant falls very close to 7 degrees of sidereal Capricorn right between the horns on the goat's forehead which according to my astrology teacher is associated with powerful sex drive 'horny" & Satanism.