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boris johnson - jeremy corbyn match up
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3665
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:30 pm    Post subject: boris johnson - jeremy corbyn match up Reply with quote

i am keen to comment on this dec 12th election, but my hands are tied in many respects as we don't have a birth time for jeremy corbyn.. working with a day chart is unacceptable...

i could resort to a few other astro tools - ingress chart, day of polling chart, a national chart and etc.. i also find myself having difficulty working with what sounds very much like a rounded off birth time for boris johnson - 2pm, that is rated A at adb..

https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Johnson,_Boris

i do wish to see corbyn win, so it is an uphill battle for me to remain objective in all of this too.. here are a couple of articles i have read on both men that i thought relates well to how i see boris johnson in particular.. the other article is a rebuttal of the anti-semite charge leveled on corbyn which i think is quite good and would motivate most people to wonder just what this is all about..

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/12/what-jolly-good-fun-it-all-is

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-the-contract-on-corbyn-1.8192769

adb offers a few rectified birth times for jeremy corbyn which can be read about here..
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Corbyn,_Jeremy

the whole brexit bomb has been temporarily defused, but continues to hang over the UKs head... i am not sure how much that is a factor playing into people's voting choices..

one feature of corbyns chart that i am intrigued with is the close proximity of saturn to the star Regulus.. in trumps chart we see the ascendant degree very close to this star as well.. ordinarily astrologers quickly dismiss saturn in leo based on saturns poor situation in the sign of leo.. i generally don't think about star positions, but my neighbour who passed away a few months ago at the age of 98 had his sun close to this position.. everything about the man seemed to be summed up in this close conjunction of sun to regulus..

back to the corbyn rectification.. it appears it was done by this fellow julian venables, based out of london.. here is an article he did on boris johnson in sept... i quote the last line of his article for entertainment purposes...

"If I was Boris right now, I’d literally retire and go enjoy lots of lovely EU wine, write a few books, paint a few more boxes, and relax, much like Nero did, playing the fiddle whilst Rome burns."

https://www.londonastrologer.com/astrology-articles/the-astrology-of-boris-the-bus-painter-mercury-rules-buses/

a further complication for me in looking at these charts - aside from the biggest one - time of corbyns birth, is the fact i like to work with solar return charts and with boris johnsons birth place new york - we know he wasn't in new york on his birthdate in all likelihood.. so, how to move forward with all these uncertainties and variables??

i will give this more thought and if anyone has anything to say about all this, i would be especially curious.. thanks..
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Edward White



Joined: 27 Jan 2019
Posts: 37
Location: UK

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 2019 Edition of Old Moore's Almanac gives a birth-time for Jeremy Corbyn, albeit one arrived at by chart rectification: 8PM, 26th May 1949, with a Scorpio Asc.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks edward - that might be the basis for the same chart in the adb link from venables..
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Folks,

The chart rectification for Jeremy Corbyn was by English astrologer Julian Venables.

Here is the link: https://www.londonastrologer.com/astrology-articles/oh-jeremy-corbyn-horoscope/

Julian wrote a follow up piece on his blog using the same chart rectification time:

https://www.londonastrologer.com/astrology-articles/jeremy-corbyn-natal-chart-interpretation/

I personally think it is very probable. It was double checked by the Traditional astrologer Chris Mitchell for Julian and he concurred with the chart. Chris Mitchell commented:

Quote:
''I took your 20:00 birth time chart and tried to rectify it using Ptolemy’s animodar method – and it barely needing rectifying! (Strongest planet in his pre-natal syzygy is Mercury, which is at 16 Gemini 42 in his natal – to rectify, move the MC to 16 deg 42 of its sign, and you get a birth time of 20:03)… “


I will be posting up my own detailed analysis and prediction on the UK General Election outcome tonight on a separate thread. I already put out my basic prediction on the UK General election on a Mundane astrology Facebook group a few weeks ago using the opening of poll chart.
I have subsequently heavily analysed the ingress charts in general election years (since 1918), the opening of poll chart, the key natal charts (Johnson, Corbyn, Swinson and Sturgeon) and the charts for the main parties-Conservative, Labour party, Liberal democrata and SNP.

I will also be revealing the birth time of the Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson for the very first time anywhere sourced by her birth certificate.

Mark
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As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly
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amymaddalozzo



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 133

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:25 pm    Post subject: Leo sun near regulus Reply with quote

James. You know that I have my sun at 29 degrees of Leo conjunct regulus. I
Never have figured out what that means! I have a quiet but interesting life but I am not a king or queen! Thanks. Amy
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 154
Location: Southwest England

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:37 pm    Post subject: Corbyn Rectification Reply with quote

For what it's worth, I've used a rectified time for Corbyn of 20:23, so not very far from the alternatives. I rectified his chart early on after his first election as leader of the Labour Party. I've not felt the need to alter this time as it seems to work very well.



Chart from Planetdance: www.jcremers.com
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"...the motions that are akin to the divine in us are the thoughts and revolutions of the universe."

Plato, Timaeus, 90.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3665
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark,

thanks for sharing your thoughts here.. i look forward to your astro comments on the upcoming dec 12th election..

i am not convinced of the work venables has shared in the 2 posts you have provided with his rationale for the 8, or 803pm time as he mentions in the comment section on one of those 2 articles... generally i am extremely dismissive of rectification work as i find most of it cheap rationalizations using astro jargon that can be twisted any number of ways.. however, i appreciate him putting it out their based on the passing this comment also in one of the 2 links you've provided and in the adb link i provided up above as well.. ""someone close to Jeremy Corbyn in the Labour party had texted JC recently to ask him his birth time, and he replied via text with this quote:

“I was born late in the day, at an inconvenient time.” ----

these rectification probes are like going on a fishing trip and thinking you got a lot of bites via the examination of the astro... the fish is the birth record if it can be gotten.. in his case, i think it can be gotten, but he hasn't shared it - yet..

i did examine the cross aspects between the UK 1801 chart and the 2 men... my quick view is boris has more synastry going for him with the 1801 chart then corbyn, but i don't know if that means much either way...


amy

i didn't know that.. i think in itself the sun-regulus conjunction is favourable to health, longevity and stature in the community...but i generally never work with stars so take my comment with a good grain of salt.. it would be different for a saturn conjunction to regulus... interestingly corbyns saturn is about 4 degrees away from where saturn is in the UK 1801 chart...

astralwanderer

thanks.. i am curious if you came upon the approx 8pm independently of knowing about venables comments or not... thanks..
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amymaddalozzo



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 133

Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:16 am    Post subject: election and etc Reply with quote

thanks james--my aunt was born august 23,1919--probably had sun conjunct regulus and she lived to 90- but died of alzheimers, so living long wasnot so good.
I think the stars favor Boris johnson, not the liberal guy amy
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3665
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is an article from peter stockinger on the election using the opening poll which mark speaks of and the ingress chart too - from early november.. i am just seeing it now...

https://starsandstones.wordpress.com/2019/11/05/uk-general-election-12-december-2019/
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 154
Location: Southwest England

Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:35 am    Post subject: Corbyn Rectification Reply with quote

Hi James - yes - this rectification of mine was done very soon after Corbyn was elected as Labour leader originally, and before Corbyn's own remark about his birth time. At the time, I tried to track down a birth time for Jeremy Corbyn, but none was available and the analyses I saw used noon charts.

Ed
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Plato, Timaeus, 90.
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james_m



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Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks ed!

here is a chart of the opening poll set to london uk in krishnamurti sidereal... if i use the same principles that peter stockinger uses, i get a similar result but presented differently... in fact, i would be inclined to say it is a tie, based on my read.. i know this runs counter to the polls being released on who is going to win.. i am curious if anyone knows what the betting, or booking agencies are saying on this??

i am also curious how one can use an opening poll or a closing poll chart and how one can rationalize one over the other... thoughts anyone??

it is a full moon chart essentially with it being a nocturnal chart with greater emphasis on the moon - 9th house ruler, then the sun 10th house ruler... moon is in an unfortunate position based on my memory of moon phase.. on the one hand it is positive as it is a full moon, but from another pov it is considered not positive when it is very close in degree to the full moon.. if you want the reference for this, i will find it..

in the chart below, we see the ruling party of boris johnson as defined by the rising sign scorpio with mars its ruler in the 12th - never a positive sign... with the 7th house defining the opposition we see the ruler in the 2nd house, or what is the 8th of the 7th house and sandwiched between malefics in what is called papakarati in indian astro and besieged in western trad.. this is quite negative as well... also - the RKA - rahu ketu axis - is impacting venus, along with saturn and to a lesser extent - jupiter..

the moon - general public- seem to be in the confines of the opposition party, being in its house.. even though the moon is positioned favourably by sign - taurus, it is subject to being ruled by venus which is besieged... i am pretty sure that has an unfavourable spin to it.. mars also makes it's 8th house aspect to it as well from the 12th.. the public is under the malefic influence of mars which is the ruler of the ruling party..

another feature of the chart is how the ascendant is sandwiched between 2 houses - 12th and 2nd - which both contain malefics - so, again the papakarati, or besieged set up with regard to the ruling party here..

all in all - both the ruling party and the opposition have a lot of problems based off the astrology and there is no clear winner in all of this, least of all the general public of the uk... that is what it looks like to me based off my read on the sidereal version of the opening chart...

feedback?? mark - my apologies if i have over stepped the sidereal - tropical bounds here... james



additional comments... mercury as ruler of the 8th is never a positive sign when on the ascendant... i personally think mercury is quite strong in this chart, unlike how peter stockinger defined it... essentially hidden forces connected to money are probably having an undue influence on the direction of the outcome here would be one way to read this - (what else is new? lol) ... mercury is also the ruler of the midheaven degree - but 8th and 11th house by whole sign.. all in all, i think mercury rising is unhelpful here given its most important position in the chart... maybe this speaks to the whole election process being a bit of a problem that should have happened much sooner, way before this brexit thing got so out of hand...

on the other hand mercury in the 1st is an asset that belongs to the ruling party... perhaps this would explain the ongoing imbalance coming from the media with mercury as a general signifactor for the media?

of course mercury in scorpio is generally quite secretive and doesn't share info especially if it runs counter to an agenda of those holding onto that info.. mars ruler is debilitated and in the 12th.. perhaps this weakens the influence of mercury in all this..

this opening verses closing poll conundrum has got me thinking too much...
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Mark
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
am also curious how one can use an opening poll or a closing poll chart and how one can rationalize one over the other... thoughts anyone??


James_M wrote:
Quote:
this opening verses closing poll conundrum has got me thinking too much...


From pov its simple.

Both can be key transit charts to nativities. But I tend to give more emphasis on the close of poll as its the transit that literally symbolises the end of the contest.

However, the opening of poll has a relevance as a stand alone chart as it is a vital contest chart. In this chart you can track the movement of planets like a horary.

Sometimes, though a really important close of poll chart can have longer significance. For example, I think the close of poll chart for the EU referendum fits in that category.

So they both have their uses.

Most astrologers are in the UK saying it will be a hung parliament with no overall majority but the Conservatives as the largest party (Rod Chang, Paul Saunders, Lynn Holt) The Serbian astrologer Smiljana Gavrancic has gone further and indicated a victory for the opposition parties. The two positions are not as different as they initially look since if the Conservatives fail to form an overall majority they will really struggle to find any party to align with due to their position on Brexit. So even if Labour get a lot less seats they may be able to govern with the tacit support of the SNP.

So far only one astrologer (Barry Goddard) has come out for a thumping majority for Johnson. Although it seems to all revolve around outer planet transits. Peter Stockinger has kind of hedged his bets as he states the opening of poll chart could lead to either a hung Parliament or an overall Conservative majority. At this late stage this really isn't very helpful as its already crystal clear Labour cannot win outright. The betting odds are all about the two scenarios with either the Conservatives as largest party but no overall majority or the Conservatives as the largest party. Its an important distinction as option A probably leads to Brexit delayed/cancelled while option B leads to a definitive Brexit in January.

Once the Moon leaves my natal 12th house I will post up my detailed analysis here. I have my own unique take on this.

Mark
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the overview mark and for answering my questions.. what time do the polls close??

it is interesting barry goodard picked trump to win as memory serves... if you see any of these predictions in the form of a post or link that you can share - please do so thanks.. hung parliament seems to be the consensus - yes...

you realize the conception chart for your upcoming post on the election has a 12th moon in it right? lol...
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Mark
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
thanks for the overview mark and for answering my questions.. what time do the polls close??


10pm GMT

Quote:
it is interesting barry goodard picked trump to win as memory serves...


Yes that was his big hit. But his predictive record is quite patchy. He incorrectly predicted Scotland would vote for independence in 2014, the UK would vote to remain in the European union in the referendum of 2016, and that Marine Le Pen would defeat Macron in the French Presidential election of 2017.

James_M wrote:
Quote:
if you see any of these predictions in the form of a post or link that you can share - please do so thanks.. hung parliament seems to be the consensus - yes...


Its all on Facebook groups I am afraid. Except Smiljana Gavrancic who has put her article up on I AM Astrology and has had her piece put up by Astro.com.

Marjorie Orr does post up analysis on her website: She sees things as very difficult for both Johnson and Corbyn and without coming out and actually saying it hints at a hung parliament.

https://star4cast.com/uk-election-yes-no-maybe-go-away/

I see her analysis as a bit one sided in regards Johnson as I see a lot of positives on election day for him she is ignoring or has not noticed.


James_M
Quote:
you realize the conception chart for your upcoming post on the election has a 12th moon in it right? lol...


Yeah I take it you mean the full Moon chart for the day as a stand alone
chart?

I will not be posting again here until I put up my full analysis on Sunday. That will go up in a locked thread which will not be open to commentary until the close of polls on Thursday.

I will also be revealing Jo Swinson's natal data up for the first time on Sunday too.

Mark
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mark,

10pm closing of polls... maybe i will comment on that in a separate thread...

thanks for the overview on barry goodards track record..

so facebook has all the records.. i continue to be shocked at how inoculated into fb folks are.. oh well.. at some point the herd will fly off in a different direction...

i look at marjories comments from time to time.. she seemed to gloss over the whole thing in a pretty shallow way as i read her comments and generally never misses an opportunty to nod her head in agreement with the msm take on corbyn..

[quote="Mark"
James_M
Quote:
you realize the conception chart for your upcoming post on the election has a 12th moon in it right? lol...


Yeah I take it you mean the full Moon chart for the day as a stand alone
chart?
Mark[/quote]

no, this was in reference to your comment in the previous post -

Mark wrote:

Once the Moon leaves my natal 12th house I will post up my detailed analysis here. I have my own unique take on this.
Mark


cheers james
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