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The chart makes so much more sense having Mercury as the offender and Jupiter as the woman. I couldn't quite work out how Jupiter fit but it seems to make more sense this way.

The birth date of Alfonso Rodriguez is 18th February, 1953 by the way. No birth time.

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Because this is an event chart for a significant moment in time, I?m not convinced that the missing woman is signified by the ascendant. I?m not convinced she isn?t, BTW, but I?m willing to explore the chart from other angles. As the initiator of the event, the ascendant might signify the attacker. That may fit better in the sense that Mercury has been void of course (doing nothing, lying low), ,snip>
I'm persuaded. Looking at this chart every way possible, I could only find sexual attack in this fashion. Nice work, Deb.
I?m also not sure how to place the Moon at this stage, but it moves from the semi-sextile of Mercury
Semi sextile? I'm shocked.

The Moon seems very apt for describing the man in custody.
I've seen his photo. He has a very round face, and my first thought was "Cancer rising." Not all round-faced people have Cancer rising and not all people with Cancer rising have round faces. Using Lilly's descriptions of Moon and Scorpio, we get a fair representation of what this man looks like.
Mercury is conjunct Ras Algethi (nature=Saturn) ? gives a violence and destructiveness, especially towards women. (This adds to my inclination to give Mercury to the perpetrator).
Robson doesn't list this one and Brady said Ptolemy said stars of this constellation (Hercules) are like Mercury. When a star conjuncts a planet that is the same as it's nature, it becomes prominent. I am curious where you found the nature of Saturn associated with this star.
Jupiter is conjunct Mizar (nature=Mars) ? connected with fires, catastrophic events and calamities. An Arabic title translates as ?neck of the maiden?, and it is connected with mourning. I?m inclined to take Jupiter for the victim, and wonder if this may have bearing upon injuries sustained.


Another new star. The suspect has several violent sexual offenses to his credit. He was only released from prison this past May having served time for a violent sexual offense. His weapon of choice was a knife, and holding it to the victim's throat sounds about right and consistent with this star.

Very impressive Deb. Once the significators are found the rest seems to fall into place.

Tom

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Semi sextile? I'm shocked.
I?m not at all confident of anything I?ve written to the extent that I would argue it Tom. When it comes to these kinds of charts I?m willing to consider anything. I don?t see why they should follow horary rules particularly; I can only see this as a potentially significant event chart. The event is centred upon a phone call, so the Moon?s contact with Mercury, although it is a minor one, might be relevant to that. Classical astrologers recognised the semi-sextile but argued that it was too weak to be of any great importance. If we discount that, then the Moon?s last contact was to Saturn which either rules the turned 3rd, or sits on the cusp of the radical 3rd, depending on how you approach the chart. Saturn doesn?t seem descriptive of a phone call, though it does seem descriptive of a moment of morbid realisation ? that ?oh my god? phrase that was uttered as the call went dead - especially if we use the turned 3rd and view Saturn on the cusp of the 9th because, respectfully or with religious intent or not, the phrase is a divine invocation. In that sense the debilitated Saturn seems very descriptive. (But, Like Viola, I?m really just thinking out loud and wondering about the relevancy myself).
Quote:
Mercury is conjunct Ras Algethi (nature=Saturn) ? gives a violence and destructiveness, especially towards women. (This adds to my inclination to give Mercury to the perpetrator).

Robson doesn't list this one and Brady said Ptolemy said stars of this constellation (Hercules) are like Mercury. When a star conjuncts a planet that is the same as it's nature, it becomes prominent. I am curious where you found the nature of Saturn associated with this star.
You?re right, Ptolemy does define its nature as Mercurial. When I wrote that I?d only done a quick online reference with the Fixed Stars site http://www.winshop.com.au/annew/alphabet1.htm which lists it as Saturnian following Noonan and Ebertin. I think we can agree that being on the square of Mars and (Tom: close your eyes a minute) conjunct Pluto (OK, Tom open them now :wink: ), it should be classed as afflicted or badly aspected :
General influence of the star:
If afflicted, indicative of an aggressive personality who always displays an unbridled hostility to those he comes in contact with. (Noonan).
Boldness and a drive to gain power. If well aspected it is said to give enjoyment and favors from women. If badly aspected, it is said to cause irritation, especially in connection with the female sex. (Ebertin).
The same for Mizar. I use Janus software which is handy because its horary module includes a list of stars in tight conjunction.

Thanks for the suspects birth data Sue. Because we don?t have a time or place I cast it for noon at Grand Forks and set it against the chart for the time of this event. The Moon position is obviously approximate but the planetary positions are reliable.
Image
Rodriguez?s Venus-Mars conjunction loosely opposite Saturn-Neptune and squared by Uranus would probably make an interesting natal study in its own right bearing in mind his history of sexual violence. There are some very strong contacts between his planetary positions and the chart cast for the time of the event.

Uranus conjunct his Sun, trine his Saturn/Neptune conjunction and opposite his Pluto
-- A sudden and obsessive compulsion to break down, lose restraint, act on morbid desires without regard for consequences?

Saturn conjunct his Uranus, trine his Mercury and squaring his Venus-Mars conjunction
-- COSI relates Saturn/Uranus to ?unusual emotional tensions or strains, irritability, emotional conflicts, rebellion, the urge for freedom, provocative conduct, an act of violence? (p.174). His Mercury in Pisces touched by this would incline him to morbid fantasies and the square of Venus and Mars suggests sexual conflicts and inhibitions which, being triggered by Uranus, would seek release.

Mars conjunct his Mercury, trine his Uranus and sextile his Jupiter
-- Mars is separating from these planets but still wielding an aggressive and malefic influence.

Neptune conjunct his n. node and sextile Jupiter
Jupiter opposite his Mercury, trine his Jupiter, sextile his Uranus
Moon opposite his Jupiter

-- The contacts to Jupiter are interesting. Could this explain why he would be drawn to a Jupiter-type person? The victim has been described as very warm, fun loving, and full of life. His natal Venus-Mars conjunction falls on the 12th house cusp, Jupiter falls within it as does the Moon even if we allow a margin for its natal position.

His Pluto is square Venus. His Venus is trine the Mercury-Pluto conjunction and loosely in trine to Venus in the event chart.
-- It is easy to relate these contacts to rape/predatory sexual violation and domination given the context of what else is taking place. COSI gives Venus-Pluto as ?An excessive expression of the sex urge, a lascivious or lewd desire, also lustful craving, immorality? (p.136). Even the Venus trine Venus can?t soften this, since his Venus is debilitated and afflicted by the conjunction of Mars, the opposition of Neptune/Saturn and the square of Uranus.

We know that this man has a history of sexual violence. The contacts certainly concur that the kind of drives and motivations he would have been experiencing at that time are ones that, for a damaged individual, could manifest in such a violent and destructive act.

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I wish I had had those two links before - it would have saved me much roaming round the chart (I didn't even know there's something on the case on the net, since something has been wrong with my search engines). Also I called Dru a querent several times (I'm prone to mistakes of that kind).

Deb, though there are some points in your post that strike me as right to the point (fixed stars especially) I simply can?t see Me as the attacker. I can see him as Ma and Sa combined. And of course I might be wrong but, with all due respect, I'll try to keep looking at it my way. (Truth is when I take one course, I follow it to see where it takes me. Sometimes I can be persuaded, sometimes not.). I?m talking about the first chart
With significators like this
- Me, Mo -Dru
- Ju - boyfriend (as the person she last talked to)
- Ma, Sa - attacker


because -
1. Mars is malefic, so is Saturn
2. Mars, being the lord of the 12th here, signifies secret enemies, it's obvious he has taken her by surprise ("Oh, my God!").

Jupiter (7th) would signify an open enemy, a competition or something like that. This is not the case here - so I'd just allot Jupiter to the boyfriend (as a person she was talking to last, he should be here in the chart and as a weak benefic he fits), because of the
- mutual reception
- their weak position (detriment, detriment) denoting they are unable to do anything about the situation
square fits because the conversation was interrupted.

Saturn signifies older men (he's old when we compare his and her age). Saturn in the sign of Mars' fall - debilitated sexuality, Saturn in the sign of his own detriment - adding to the debility of the character. Saturn retrograde - coming back to where he had been before (jail) and doing the same undoings he'd done before.

Another thing:
If we are talking about one person in two different situations, or in a relation general vs. particular ? we really can allot two significators to the person quite logically

Dru as a person ? Mercury (talking to her boyfriend Jupiter, square = conversation interrupted)
Dru as a victim ? Moon (she was attacked as a woman, not as Dru i.e. person)

Rodriguez as a person Saturn (repeating his undoings and going back to prison ? retrograde, debilitated sexuality and rather futile existence ? Cancer as a sign of Mars fall and Saturn?s detriment)
Rodriguez as attacker - Mars , ruling 12th (secret, sneaking), rather successful as such (Mars in its own triplicity) exalting Venus (he wants sex) but in the sign of fall and detriment of Mercury (his action is annulling and destroying his victim as a person, as I said before ? Mars is the real enemy). Dru as Me in Sag (detriment) didn?t pay attention or didn?t pay the same attention she usually does when she enters her car on an isolated place.

Moon shows Dru as victim of Mars (Moon in Scorpio i.e. its fall and being in the hands of Mars)
If we look at Venus in 7th, it had a square with Mars in the past, meaning ? he had harmed women before as the report shows.


If we looked at the Sun, denoting the end of the matter (Lord of 4th) it has just left Scorpio (water, I?ve written enough about it, so I won?t repeat myself here). It (Sun has entered Sagittarius) so there can be a place near (or at the outskirts of ) that Fisher town, a place connected with having Sag symbolism. Sun in Sag ? there?s a double fire here. And that Sun perfected the square with Uranus. When I did this chart in Astrodienst and was looking for coordinates I found out there?s some air force base or something like that around. Now I seem to be missing a lot of info here like I did from the start. Any info&news&links will be welcome.
Regards
V.
p.s.
Deb, I haven't read your last post yet.

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The problem I would have with taking Jupiter as the boyfriend, is that asc-ruler Mercury and the Moon are both applying immediately to Jupiter, so bringing Jupiter into the nucleus of what is about to happen, rather than what has happened. But I?m not arguing against the general premise of what you?ve written. I don?t have enough experience to speak from authority ? I?m just casting my thoughts into the pot. I only found the links by running a google search on ?missing woman Grand Forks? and posted them as I found them. It?s frustrating if you don?t know the area ? how can anyone effectively translate the symbolism with no way of pinning it down? Certain clues seem to be appropriate but we don?t know what we?re missing ? what would be so obvious if we were only aware of its existence.

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I?m just casting my thoughts into the pot.
so am I, Deb, so am I.
The problem I would have with taking Jupiter as the boyfriend, is that asc-ruler Mercury and the Moon are both applying immediately to Jupiter, so bringing Jupiter into the nucleus of what is about to happen, rather than what has happened.
It's a very good point. When you think about it, there was another phonecall without any speaking several hours after the event for which the chart was cast started. Now Jupiter (being in its detriment) wasn't able to do much, though he tried.

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I would still have trouble seeing the boyfriend as central to the action, and I think the criticism against him is that he didn?t try to follow up on the calls. It was a roommate that notified her missing to police at 9:30 pm after she failed to turn up for work. People have put his lack of apparent concern over the calls down to being a bit dismissive about the situation. I don?t think we can just allocate Jupiter to the boyfriend and then leave it at that because Jupiter is such a key planet in the chart. If there were any reason to suspect the boyfriend it would certainly bring him into it, but as far as I?m aware he?s out of the equation.

Anyway, this might help (I?ll have to leave this now and catch up with other things) ? a forum message on the Dru site mentions her birthday as 26 September 1981 http://www.datafields.com/drusj2forum/t ... PIC_ID=495

The line up of planets when the event chart is compared with Dru?s solar chart and that of the suspect is quite staggering. The image of the triwheel is too large for the forum so I?ve placed it on this link: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/trichart.html

Note the exact line up between Rodriguez?s Sun, Dru?s Saturn and the event Uranus opposing Dru?s node. Also, Dru?s Neptune falls on Rodriguez?s Jupiter, opposite the Moon of the event chart. That Mars-Jupiter opposition in the event chart is really brought to prominence with Rodriguez?s Mercury hitting Dru?s Uranus and the event Mars, whilst opposing Jupiter, which falls upon Dru?s Venus/Mercury conjunction and amplifies those ?young attractive girl? qualities.

I don?t think there can be any doubt about how these three charts fit together, so one thing I would cast a strong opinion on, based purely on astrological reasoning, is that the man they have in custody was involved in the abduction.

(Ignore the angles in the solar charts because they are not reliable.)

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It?s frustrating if you don?t know the area ? how can anyone effectively translate the symbolism with no way of pinning it down?

I don't have time to comment on all the fine things in this thread, but I will mention this. Grand Forks, North Dakota is on the state's eastern border next to Minnesota. There is an Air Force Base in Grand Forks. North Dakota is cold, damn cold this time of year and it is big: 69,000 square miles. The population is about 650,000. There are a lot of empty places to hide. Think prarrie but there are some elevated regions. There are of course lakes, rivers, and streams, but no major waterways akin to the Mississippi River or the Great Lakes. Being born and raised in a densely populated area, I would call it barren, cold, and dry, just like Virgo.

There is a Crookston is in nearby Minnesota.

I want to disuccss all this later on.

Tom

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The search for Dru?s body has been called off, the police accepting that there is nowhere feasible left for them to search. The quote below is from http://www.startribune.com/stories/1405 ... html[quote]
"Unless some new information surfaces that identifies an area we haven't covered, we're done at least for this winter," said Maj. Mike Fonder of the Grand Forks County Sheriff's Office.
"Obviously, we were wishing we could have found her. But there's no other place for us to look for her," Fonder said.
"The only person who knows right now, we believe, is Mr. Rodriguez."
Alfonso Rodriguez Jr., 50, a convicted sex offender from Crookston, Minn., is accused of kidnapping Sjodin. He remains in jail in Grand Forks in lieu of $5 million bail, awaiting a Feb. 4 court appearance. He has denied involvement.
The weekend search effort included a systematic examination of the Red River under a bridge near Thompson, N.D., south of Grand Forks, on a route that Rodriguez often used between Grand Forks and Crookston, police said.
Soldiers drilled a close pattern of holes through the foot-thick ice and used underwater cameras to look for evidence. Elsewhere, on both sides of the river, soldiers on foot and in Humvees searched ditches, culverts, fields, abandoned shacks and woods.[/quote]When we were looking into this the other week I was wondering if and how astrology might be able to help ? let?s say it was being taken seriously by those involved. My own feelings are that it probably can?t add much to the search. In this search in particular everyone seems to have done everything they can. We might suggest the possibility of a location near water or point to the river for example, but the police are not going to miss places like that anyway. The better role I see for astrology would be in advising the investigators of the best time to put pressure on their suspect and trying to get him to crack or using knowledge of astrology to gauge his reactions and understand the way his mind is working. I agree with this quote that he is the key, so I suppose we can only hope that he offers up some information or that a change in the weather brings some fresh hope of finding the body.

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Dru?s body was found on Saturday 17th April, 5 months after the murder. I don?t have a time for the discovery. The official searches were suspended last year because of the bad weather conditions and this was the first day that they had resumed the search in clearer weather. It was found in an area that was searched several times in winter, when it was covered in snow.
The information I can find on the location is that it was just west of the city limits of Crookston (the murder suspect?s home town), near the Minakwa Country Club golf course. It lay in a ravine near the Red Lake river. The photograph below shows the area where the body was found.
Image
It is taken from the news report at: http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/Midwest/ ... g.student/

An autopsy has confirmed the body to be Dru?s but as yet no details have been released regarding injuries or cause of death.

Looking back through the posts, we all felt that a location near the Red Lake River (or some river) was significant. With the Sun (ruler of 4th) in Sagittarius, I?d been thinking elevated ground to the south east. I wonder now whether the Sun?s location near the descendant describes the westerly location, although the Sun is 7 degrees from the descendant. I?m not sure if this was elevated land or not. Tom mentioned that the area being cold dry and barren was like Virgo (using Jupiter for Dru).
I?ve never thought about golf clubs before but I suppose Leo is fitting since it rules open parks and areas of recreation. Again Jupiter, being in the 5th house, might have some relevance to that. It?s hard to see how the timing for the discovery of the body could have been established from the abduction chart, unless someone can see something I don?t.

The family are very relieved that the body is found. Although the suspect is still denying the charge, the evidence is stacking up against him and everyone seems confident that they have the right man.

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Sorry, but this was about to fall off the index on page 7 and I just had to rescue it because there is sooo much good stuff in here including the outcome.

We seem to have already lost Tom's True Crime horary Deb - is there anyway you can rescue and archive it?

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Oops! Sorry, the True Crime horary is still there on the last page. I forgot to check before I signed off the first time, hence this second post. Some of the older threads hold a wealth of information for those who haven't taken the time to read them. Perhaps there's even a book! - Mysteries in Horary! :lol: