13 by skippy I have a 12th house sun I stopped trying to escape. Or maybe I just use more healthier ways to escape. It's also spiritually gifted and is a seeker of enlightenment. Also is at home with the machinary of Institution. So it ain't all bad is it? Quote Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:50 am
14 by techno_seer Lilly says that the 12th house is the worst house, but I donno, 8th can be bad. Here is a link to Jeffery Dahmer's chart. http://www.astrologysoftware.com/resour ... 521602.gif I though it was a hoot to see sceptic.com use his chart to discredit astrology. See how they stacked the deck. http://www.skepticreport.com/astrology/celebrity2.htm Quote Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:01 am
15 by Mark Thanks for the Dahmer link. Reading some of that astro-babble its little wonder there are sceptics out there! It is interesting that he has quite a few strong natal plants by domicile rulership-Saturn, Venus and Mercury. Still the Moon-Saturn square makes it clear to any student of astrology this person is emotionally complex and has difficulty expressing their feelings in a spontaneous way. I need to check but I seem to recall several of the British serial killers had this or Moon in Capricorn. The Moon is also trine to Uranus but as the Moon in peregrine that adds to the picture of emotional instability. His Sun, Ascendant ruler ( Venus), the 12th house ruler (Mercury) in the eighth house contributes to an unsettling profile with associations with death and distress. Most of the serial killer charts I have looked at seem to be associated with malefic fixed stars and this is no exception. However, Dahmers chart is the jackpot! Dahmers Sun is on Alcyone. According to Robson this malefic star represents 'disgrace, evil disposition, murderer or murdered imprisonment, death by pestilence, blows, stabs, shooting, beheading or shipwreck''. Noonan states it represents '''Excess of heat resulting in violence and perhaps misfortune or dishonor'. Dahmers Mars is also on the malefic fixed star Algenib which Robson states is associated with 'notoriety, dishonor, violence, misfortune'. Dahmers Mercury is on the malefic fixed star Prima Hyadum. According to Ptolemy this is of the nature of Saturn and Mercury. According to Robson it is associated with 'tears, sudden events, violence, fierceness, poisoning, blindness, wounds or injuries to the head by instruments, weapons or fevers, and contradictions of fortune'' Many consider the fixed stars on the angles are especially descriptive. Here we find Dahmers MC on the malefic fixed star Pollux which according to Ptolemy it is of the nature of Mars; and, to Alvidas, of the Moon, Mars and Uranus. It gives a subtle, crafty, spirited, brave, audacious, cruel and rash nature, ...dignified malevolence, and is connected with poisons. (Robson). According to Ebertin the nature of this this star is brutal and tyrannical, violent and cruel if in conjunction with the Sun, Moon, Ascendant, MC or with malefics. Traditional Authorities such as Lilly would also have considered Dahmer's Venus conjunct Algol. The fixed stars may seem a bit fatalistic at times but you can't call this fluffy astrology! Incidentally on the subject of twelfth house Sun's I wonder if Tony Blair has another let out? I see his MC ruler (Saturn) ,although in the sixth house, is conjunct Spica. Mark Quote Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:55 pm
16 by Tom Yes, the 8th house can be as bad or worse than the 12th. THe 12th is associated with the things we do to mess up our lives, but at least we get to do them ourselves. The 8th seems to do things to us. One of the rarely mentioned, but I think more interesting ways to look at two planets is the mutual rection by debility. Dhamer has Saturn in Capricorn and Moon in Aries, a mutual reception by fall: retrograde Saturn is in the fall of the Moon and the Moon is in the fall of Saturn. They would be hurting each other rather than helping each other. It's bad enough with the Saturn Moon square indicating depression, or even depravity, but Saturn squares the ASC and the Moon opposes it. Saturn and the Moon have great influence over all four angles. They rule by domicile the 4th - 10th axis. Saturn is the exaltation ruler of the 1st and the Moon sits on the 7th cusp. We could teach a whole seminar about Saturn and the Moon with this chart alone. Tom Quote Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:48 pm
17 by jac Two outstanding examples; Andy Warhol, professional vicarious voyeur, and Divine, outrageous persona. In their own way there was a lot of 'depth-plumbing' involved, and the perpetual need for some variety of entourage (public insulation?)....Something for the mix. Quote Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:30 am
18 by Tom Hi jac, I'm a little puzzzled by your post. Would you post Andy Warhol's data? I don't have it and I think it would be a big help. Thanks. Tom Quote Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:48 pm
19 by jac http://astroqueer.tripod.com/charts/warhol.html http://astroqueer.tripod.com/charts/divine.html Hi Tom; here are links to their charts (images wouldn't post). What I was saying was Andy lived through other people's experiences and more or less reinterpreted/'co-opted' pre-existing images and experiences. He basically lived in an insular vacuum, growing up allergic to nearly everything. As with Divine, another celebrity with very limited options, as a schoolboy, Divine (Glenn Milstead) had to have a police escort to get to school intact. Save for very ghettoized neighborhoods, these are individuals who were seldom in public w/o an entourage. Also, both seem to fulfill some need of the public (sub?)conciousness to rise to such fame & notoriety. Now while these are extreme cases, perhaps on some level they may serve to illustrate some exaggerated octave of the 12th house. Last edited by jac on Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total. Quote Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:01 am
20 by Tom Hi jac, Thanks for the clarification. I'll check Warhol's chart. I wasn't sure if you were referring to the 12th house Sun (and therefore staying on topic) or my remark immediately above yours referring to the 8th house (which was slipping off topic). To be honest, I've never heard of Divine. Tom Quote Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:28 am
21 by jac My pleasure Tom; this is a wonderful place to be a 'fly on the wall', but if I have anything, it's nice to hop off! Divine, yesss... a unique individual. Here's a link to two more 12th house notables, Johnny Cash & John Ritter: http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/532 Quote Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:27 pm