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Hitlers astrologer
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Anna



Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 61
Location: Sweden

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:10 pm    Post subject: Hitlers astrologer Reply with quote

Is there anyone in this forum that knows anything about Hitlers astrologer? Who he/she was and what happend to him/her?

I read in Herman Wouks War and Remembrance that Hitlers astrologer had predicted Roosevelts death very correctly in time.

Is there anyone who knows anything about Napolens astrologer it would be nice to know about to.
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Julie K



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 378
Location: Australia

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:14 am    Post subject: Hitler's Astrologer Reply with quote

Anna,

I have no knowledge to offer re the Astrolger unfortunately.

If Franklin Roosevelt's death was predicted it begs the question was Hitler's death predicted at much the same time?

It is significant both Franklin Roosevelt died April 12,1945 and Hilter April 30th 1945. It may be of interest to some.

Julie K
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Lunlumo



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 300
Location: Münster, Germany

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hitler himself did not believe in astrology- unlike some of the Nazi-leaders, among them Rudolf Hess.
Goebbels in the beginning seems to have favoured astrology, then he started to hate it - as the astrologers nolonger gave the predictions that were expected. Consequently some astrologers were arrested and put into concentration camps.
Not many astrologers, even here in Germany, seem to know that the founder of the Hamburg School of Astrology, Witte, had to commit suicide
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Gunhilde



Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 800

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the astrologers nolonger gave the predictions that were expected. Consequently some astrologers were arrested and put into concentration camps.


This has been the conundrum of astrologers throughout the ages: damned if you do, damned if you don't!

GH Smile
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Pat



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 5
Location: Rocbaron

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:04 am    Post subject: Napoleon's astrologer Reply with quote

Hi

Napoleon once took advice by Melle Lenormand, in Paris.
She practised palmistry and tarot (52 cards only)

K.R.

Pat
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Anna



Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 61
Location: Sweden

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all!

I wish there was some litterature in this subject. Not surprised at all that astrologers who"didn't answered correctly" ended up in concentration camps! Why did Witte had to commit suicide?
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Anna



Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 61
Location: Sweden

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julie, If I had been Hitlers astrologer and had predicted his death I probably had kept it to myself! :-)
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Lunlumo



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 300
Location: Münster, Germany

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: Witte's suicide Reply with quote

Not much is known about Witte's suicide. After R.Hess had flown to Britain, the Nazis declared him a madman. Some astrologers were suspected to have had a bad influence on Hess. As I said, they were arrested and put into concentration camps. Some survived, some did not. Obviously Witte, too, was facing imprisonment. According to one of his disciples he committed suicide to keep away harm from his family. That may be one reason, but he certainly knew what being in a concentration camp meant.

I do not practise the Hamburg School, but I've studied it - and there is no doubt: Witte was one of greatest astrologers in modern times.
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Julie K



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 378
Location: Australia

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject: Hitler's Astrologer Reply with quote

Anna,

Anna wrote:
Julie, If I had been Hitlers astrologer and had predicted his death I probably had kept it to myself! :-)


I'd have definitely kept the info to myself if I had any inkling on a prediction surrounding Hitlers death. Uuuuh.....the man himself may have believed he was immortal? Confused

Julie K


Last edited by Julie K on Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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cosmicdolphin



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 730

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Are you talking about Karl Ernst Krafft
he died in a gas chamber in Buchenwald.

cheers
CD
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Lunlumo



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 300
Location: Münster, Germany

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Ernst_Krafft

This seems to give quite a good and reasonable account of E.Krafft's life and activities.
LL
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Anna



Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 61
Location: Sweden

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to you all who gave me names i found that there is quite a lot of information on the internet. Wikipedia for sure! Very interesting. And very relieving to find out that astrology really isn´t "A Nazi thing" as some people in my country has suggested to me.
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cosmicdolphin



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 730

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anna

i dont know about you but i am very fed up with this "nazi this"
"nazi that" .. Nazi did not start this craze. Astrology has been around the govt since beginning of times. look at Egypt and babylon.. not even mentioning alexander the great.. if anyone ever bring up astrology and nazis .. tell them that most prominent people scientists like Newton were practicing astrology not even mentioning kings/queens/presidents/fbi/cia/secret services.

Ronald Reagan had his own personal astrologer on staff
I forgot who but one of the founding fathers was an astrologer himself.

Wikipedia has errors.

cheers
CD
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Tom
Moderator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3509
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ronald Reagan had his own personal astrologer on staff
I forgot who but one of the founding fathers was an astrologer himself.


I don't believe President Reagan had an astrologer "on staff." Nancy Reagan did consult with astrologer Joan Quigly regarding her husband's schedules. At least that's what she said she did after the cat got out of the bag. When an angry White House staffer was fired (I've forgotten his name) he let it out that Nancy "believed in" astrology. Naturally this was ammo for the President's enemies (which, of course was the purpose of the "revelation") and all sorts of stories circulated about the President, his mental state and how his superstitions were dangerous blah, blah, blah.

However, in her book Secret's From a Stargazer's Notebook, Debbie Kempton Smith noted that Ronald Reagan did use astrology and kept others off balance by giving out different birth times. Smith's book was written, I think, in 1982 (can't put my hands on my copy at the moment) prior to the Nancy Reagan astrology flap. Keep in mind his enemies called him the Teflon President.

Benjamin Franklin has been "accused" of being an astrologer, but I don't know that any strong evidence exists to support that. He did have an astrology column in his famous Poor Richard's Almanac, but that was expected in his day. There was very little astrology in the US in the 18th century - at least of the kind that we would consider serious astrology. I would not discount an interest in astrology by Franklin, however. He was well travelled, and possessed of an unusually curious and brilliant mind. He may well have been attracted to the study at some time in his life.

As for the astrologer's in Nazi Germany, I've always been suspicious of stories of the rounding up and deportation and extermination of astrologers anywhere at least in modern times. It seems to me that no one takes it seriously enough to be concerned about it much less considering it threatening enough to marshal the powers of the state against it.

In issue 16 of The Traditional Astrologer Magazine, a section of Derek Parker's History of astrology is quoted regarding Karl Kraft. In it, circumstances are cited that Parker believes gave the Nazis an "excuse (did Nazi's need an excuse to do anything?)" to clamp down on astrologers and he further claimed a bunch of them got rounded up and shipped to concentration camps. How do they know where to find them? Who qualified as worthy of extermination? Did the go to the 1930s German equivalent of Nadej Sees All Knows All?

I'm sure there were astrologers among the persecuted and murdered and I do not mean to make light of anyone's plight in that place and time. I only wonder if astrologers are too quick to find some kind of romance in being (safely) a part of a once persecuted group. Did Hitler care about astrologers at all except possibly as a propaganda tool? Were astrologer's predictions so accurate and credible that the Third Reich had more to fear from them than Allied bombers? Was Hitler that paranoid? OK maybe this last deserves a "yes." Still I find it hard to believe that astrologers occupied that much of the time and efforts of Germany at this time.

For the record the word "Nazi" I believe originated in the English Language, possibly America, as a corruption of the phrase perhaps as it is pronounced in German "National Socialism." They called themselves "Fascists."

Tom
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Julie K



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 378
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Hitler's Astrologer Reply with quote

Tom,

In his book The Round Art Tadd (A.T) Man has a very good analysis of Hitler's life using Solar Arcs. Hitler was a frustrated painter - his father did not want his son to be an artist - might have been a whole lot better if he had supported this acreer choice.

The swasticker is the ' cross in motion' .

Julie K
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