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Multi questions for ONE chart

 
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StarsNYou



Joined: 21 Feb 2004
Posts: 20
Location: Midwest, USA

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:45 am    Post subject: Multi questions for ONE chart Reply with quote

Hi all:

Had a question: When someone asks you about a job they interviewed for, I understand taking the 1st and the 10th etc. Now, what if they say I applied for TWO different jobs, and which one will I get? Is it much like when someone asks where they would be better off? I just want to make sure I read the correct houses when its 2 jobs the person is inquiring about.

Thanks
Juli
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Juli,

I think one would definitley have to look at the 10th and it's ruler, but for the second application, I'd look at the receptions. It's kind of a tough question to answer without any more reference. If this was an actual question, would you mind posting the data? This is not an uncommon occurence and I think the answer would be valuable.

Tom
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HoraryQueen



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 104

Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Another way of looking at it might be that one job is the 10th and the 'rival' job is the 4th, i.e. 7th from 10th. This is something I have heard of before.

Also I suppose there could be planets actually in the 10th house although it would still be very difficult to differentiate between the two as presumably it would be two of the same kind of job.

Not easy - it will be interesting to see the chart though!
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 569

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read in Karen's book (I forget her last name - the Danish lady) that if you are looking at 2 options, the 2nd option is the same number of houses away as from the 1st.
Or, if you applied for 2 jobs, the first job would be house 10, and the 2nd job would be the 10th from the 10th.
From personal experience (for what it's worth), just a few weeks ago, I was going to a concert with a friend and at the last minute, she called to say that her car broke down. (She was driving in from another city). So I did a horary to find out whether she would make it to the concert on time. Well, there was no aspect between myself & her (i.e. 1st and 11th), but I was quickly coming to a conjunction with the 11th from the 11th. So actually, many frantic calls later, I ended up going with another friend. (Did I ultimately go with the right person? - well - that's a different post all together!!! Laughing )
But the concert was great!!
Madision Square Garden - for those of you who are familiar with NYC - can't beat an MSG crowd for energy!!
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HoraryQueen



Joined: 07 Jul 2004
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Still a problem with two things happening at the same time as you don't know which is the 10th and which would be the 10th from 10th. Same problem with the 10th v. 7th from 10th.

In the case of the friend it would have been quite clear. You had your current friend and when that 'fell through' your next friend was the 11th from 11th.
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StarsNYou



Joined: 21 Feb 2004
Posts: 20
Location: Midwest, USA

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question was posed on July 24, 2004 at 6:29am CDT in Omaha, Nebraska, USA

The only thing at the time that popped in my head was the rule of when someone asks if they should stay where they are at or move. But, she wasn't asking that. She was asking of the 2 jobs she interviewed for, which one would she get, and if she did get an offer for both, which looked better!!!! It was a loaded question. One, I am sure I will be asked again, so I wanted to be sure to look at the right houses, since that seems to be what sends Horary Astrologers astray at times Laughing

Thanks
Juli
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This issue has come up in the forum a number of times. My advice is always to avoid ‘either/or’ questions as there’s usually no need for them and they result in confusion.

For horary to work well it must be applied to a strongly focussed and clearly defined issue. Clients shouldn’t ask “should I do this … or should I do that??” – they should be asked to establish the option that they feel most inclined towards. Most people don’t have any problem with that if you ask them to think about it, (if they are so dilatory that they really can’t do that you can expect their lack of mental clarity to result in a chaotic chart with equally confusing symbolism – however, see below for a suggestion here). Once they apply some focus and highlight an option, the chart will reveal whether that is a wise choice or fraught with difficulties. And it will also describe a more suitable alternative if one exists.

Another approach which gets to the same ends for our dilatory friends is to simply accept the question as ‘what is the astrological advice on this job-related matter?’ This is really about letting the symbolism speak for itself and describe the options to you, but it will result in an apt and vivid chart providing the querent is sincere and has a sufficient desire to accept horary advice. Again, the chart should be capable of describing alternatives through the symbolism of the planets involved, their dignities, house locations and aspects and contacts, etc.

Trying to break the matter down into various houses just doesn’t work. If the chart is generally bad and the Moon’s aspects are difficult you then have a dilemma over which option this negative set of conditions most applies to. Always bear in mind that you need to frame the question in such a way that the chart can effectively answer it.
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
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Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suppose someone asked a muddled question like this one about which of two options was best, and they asked the question at a given date, time and place. Then you come along and tell them that the issue should be thought about in a clearer way. Do you use the first chart or do you have them ask the question in the more clear line of thought at a different time?

Which kind of brings up another question I have wondered about, and that is what is the best way to handle the timing of asking a question twice. In the situation above, I'd guess that if you explained to the querant how they should frame the question in a clearer way, that they would immediately turn around and ask the question right away. Somehow this strikes me as the wrong way to handle this. My experience has been that the clearest charts come from when we are really in a moment of crisis or doubt. I did one that's posted on here about my cat Guernsey who has cancer. The time of the chart was while I was in the waiting room at the vet, just after the vet told me he had found a lump in her and was doing more exams on her. That chart is very clear.

Another situation that I think we all have had is when we get a chart with early degrees rising, which I have always interpreted as ask the question again later. Well when do we know that it’s the right time? When you feel like it I guess. The problem with this is that these moments of crisis don't repeat themselves on a regular basis. But I do have one instance where I asked the same question I think three or four times, getting early degrees rising the first two or three times. The final time that I asked it and at last got a valid chart happened when I was sound asleep early in the morning and woke up suddenly with the question on my mind. That chart was one of the best I have ever done.

The hardest thing to do for us relative newcomers when we get a chart with early degrees rising, or like the above situation when the question could be framed better is to just let it go and not ask the question all over again right away.
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Deb
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Suppose someone asked a muddled question like this one about which of two options was best, and they asked the question at a given date, time and place. Then you come along and tell them that the issue should be thought about in a clearer way. Do you use the first chart or do you have them ask the question in the more clear line of thought at a different time?


There wouldn’t be a first chart. Most of the horary charts I do arise as the result of a consultation with the querent, where they tell me what their problem or dilemma is and during this process I am thinking about their issue and committing it to horary signification in my mind. This may seem instantaneous, and from experience I quickly recognise which questions seem straightforward and which need a bit more probing to result in a question that I feel will express the querent’s concerns in a format I can work with. I might use the phrase ‘so what you’re looking for is this…’ to which they generally reply ‘exactly’ or throw in a few more details.

I actually never commit to answering particular questions and make it very clear that I recognise the issue of concern and will see what the chart has to say about it. I don’t promise anything before I’ve looked at the chart - but I can’t really think of a situation where I’ve been through a consultation, agreed to look at the chart and then found it unclear or unhelpful. I suspect that what’s happening during this initial preparation is that I’m aligning my expectation with whatever I’m about to look at, so that I understand it more clearly and recognise its importance more easily when I do see it. Like I said, this might be seconds or minutes; it’s not a case of me sending the querent off with a flea in their ear or telling them to make another appointment when they can give me a better question Smile

Quote:
My experience has been that the clearest charts come from when we are really in a moment of crisis or doubt.


I completely agree. And when someone is in a crisis their distress is very apparent. We’re naturally empathetic creatures so we make strong connections with people that are emotionally upset. I think there is a very obvious distinction between someone who acknowledges that they’ve tried to clarify a matter before but haven’t fully understood it (or they are still struggling with it), and has become even more upset by it, to the point that they’ve reached a new crisis and need more help (all crisis points are capable of valid judgement); and those people who repeatedly ask the same question because they are not willing to accept any perspective other than the one they brought into the consultation “will my lover leave his wife for me? – No – long explanation”, “will my lover leave his wife for me – No, re-explanation, more tea and sympathy”; “will my lover leave his wife for me now? – No, bugger off”.

I’m quite sure astrology expresses a more enduring sense of sympathy than I can, but even so, when everything has been opened up, laid bare, and fully explained, horary has done all it can to help. The responsibility now lies with the client to work through their sense of loss and face up to their fears. If for no other reason than we walk a fine line between supporting clients and becoming an emotional crutch for them, we should be careful. Very often it’s not a case that the querent is held back because they don’t understand the full implications of the issue; they may well understand but remain resistant to the course of action astrology calls for them to take.

Quote:
The hardest thing to do for us relative newcomers when we get a chart with early degrees rising, or like the above situation when the question could be framed better is to just let it go and not ask the question all over again right away.

It is very strange the way that beginners tend to attract the indications of caution. Perhaps more experienced horary astrologers get them too but become more confident in integrating them into judgement so don’t notice them so much. Or maybe we all need to go through that period of being exasperated by not getting the full answer we expect the chart to give us – so that we can understand some of the frustrations our clients face when they don’t get the answer they want.

This issue of resisting our own temptation to call for support from astrology for our own problems might actually be quite important. Ultimately astrology doesn’t take problems away, it only elucidates what the problems actually are and then leaves the querent to respond accordingly. Seeing the right course of action through to the end can be very hard, and people that are going through that experience will inevitably feel alienated and unsupported at the stage when they’re dealing with the worst of it, no matter what good advice they’ve been given.
When we’re emotionally fragile, clear reason may be the only shining light to guide us through it. Astrology offers reason, so shouldn’t astrologers be more capable of allowing reasoning powers to overcome emotional urges than anyone? That said, I don’t think it’s ever a case that astrology can’t have a message for us – only that sometimes we’re not in the right state of mind to understand what that message is. Then it’s best to just leave astrology alone because by meddling in matters we don’t fully understand we might do more harm than good.

PS - whenever I say 'never', I mean 'except for exceptions' Smile
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
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Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I talked about how I throw charts out when they have early degrees rising, Deb commented,

Quote:
It is very strange the way that beginners tend to attract the indications of caution. Perhaps more experienced horary astrologers get them too but become more confident in integrating them into judgement so don’t notice them so much. Or maybe we all need to go through that period of being exasperated by not getting the full answer we expect the chart to give us – so that we can understand some of the frustrations our clients face when they don’t get the answer they want.


So are you saying that we should read charts with early degrees rising? I've just discarded them. I do keep the charts with late degrees rising, because in a way that is a definate answer. I've got several ones with late degrees rising that have to do with work and potential business, which makes sense. The late degrees rising tells me that the client has found someone else to work for them. But the early degrees rising I have thought meant that the jury is still out on the question. Are you saying that you read those charts?
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Deb
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Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mark,

I don't ignore any of the considerations before judgement - but I take them as just that: things to consider before forming a judgement. They offer a warning, which could be anything from being careful to double check your understanding of the chart to being sure to stay out of something that will bring a lot of trouble on your own head.
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