157 by RC Deb, I am rather surprised at your reaction and comments which I think were undeserving and one sided. And I have to say you have a rather selective memory when it comes to comments made to me in the past by Emma. One of them I believe you found quite humorous. I did not share your opinion and found it rather insulting as well as irritating - it was not amusing to me and your reaction to her seemed to encourage that behavior. I have continued to either ignore her comments altogether or use a lot of patience in responding as I have noticed that I am not the only one she has been confrontational with. I suppose I did finally run low on patience. As for my views on this election, If you had followed along, it should have been somewhat clear that I was relying on the natal for my hope for a McCain win - NOT the horaries which all pointed to a BO win when using Frawley's techniques for my horary as well as Kali's horary. You on the other hand, made a point of saying that horaries were doubtful and could not work for such questions since I had no relationship with the parties. As it turned out, the horaries did work exactly right, again, using Frawley's techniques. Deb wrote:Yes of course, any question can be asked, but what we want with horary is a good, strong, emotional investment and a clear mental focus on the question, to get the kind of radical question that hits right into the heart of the matter. Chris Warnock?s point is a good one, and I?m glad you made it. Despite my general dislike of these charts, I actually do believe that horary can be used for mundane or political matters, or for 3rd-party horaries. But it takes a special set of circumstances to create a radical question, and if the querent is also being the astrologer too, then they need to have a great deal of experience and give the chart complete commitment. Lilly?s chart about Presbytery is a classic example. I guess I had a "special set of circumstances" since my chart was accurate, eh? Of course I'm not sure yet what those "special circumstances" were since I've never met either man and wasn't involved in campaign work. And since you have taken issue with my past assertions regarding these horaries, I will post them here: RC wrote: yuzuru wrote: But if I take the 7th, mars rules obama. Moon (the people) will apply to sextile mars, Obama wins. Hi Yuzuru: I'm assuming you are a student of Frawley. I read this in his book. He states that which ever candidate gets aspected by the moon wins. He doesn't state whether the aspect had to be good or bad. So according to his analysis which was very brief in the book, since Moon sextiles BO's ruler, Mars, as you say, he wins. He didn't clarify in the book whether he turns the chart or uses the radical 10th for both candidates (I don't think). So I was a bit unclear how he does that. But Frawley also talks about the moon being fixed. This chart is interesting because the moon is FIXED. But it is in 00 degrees directly opposing a fixed MC at 1'. If a fixed MC means the party in power stays in power, this seems to be a mixed reading for an Obama win with the moon doing nothing at 00 degrees fixed. But aside from that, it looks almost like a done deal. RC ---- RC wrote: Hey Kali: No planets in the ASC or 7th but: Moon separates from a sextile to Mercury which just passed over 1st ruler, Venus. Moon then opposes MC and then sextiles Mars. This would all seem to favor BO. Uranus' soltice point (10th ruler) is conjunct BO's Mars. Moon's Soltice Point is at 29 Taurus (Pleides) in the first house squaring the MC from McCain's house. Seems on further study, the chart favors BO more. Unfavorable for BO: Mars in detriment, about to enter his own 12th. McCain's favor: He's about to enter dignity in Libra. I'm still not sure how we should judge moon at 0 Leo though or fact that MC is fixed. RC ---- RC wrote: Hey Kali: Yes, we will know soon! I find these horaries a bit frustrating tho I think more of mine show a McCain win, I am relying on the Natal charts for both men. Using the 9 AM birth time chart for McCain, I think McCain will pull it off and win. And I think I was being pretty objective in reading their charts. But there are now 3 birth times for him. --- RC wrote: Hey Kali: I only looked at your chart a little and won't try to answer that here, but that particular chart did not look promising imo. Maybe it should be read differently than the way we read the other charts. For one thing, that MC about to change signs looks like a new party coming into power. RC ---- Not wanting to dim Kali's hopes, I then responded again to her again and stated that I was hanging my hopes on the natal charts. RC wrote: kali wrote: The question was "Will Republican's win?" Republican's are conservatives. Saturn is a conservative sign and it's staying in power even though the sign changes. (Different person? McCain!) Maybe it's as simple as that! If McCain wins, this chart shows it and it will be up to me to find where I went wrong in predicting Obama. Well, that makes sense to me. Of course BO has Aquarius rising...?? And that would be a "change" and Uranus brings change and shakes things up. But I'm going to stick with the natal charts and take hope from those. Thumbs up RC RC wrote:Clinton: I'm done with these horaries. Look at McCain's natal with the US birth chart: --- So if you had followed along, as the assessments of the horaries progressed, it should have been clear that I felt the horaries were favoring BO and for that reason, I hung my hopes on the natal analysis. And Yuzura, thank you for being objective in this. You are right in your assessment, as usual. RC
158 by Deb And I have to say you have a rather selective memory when it comes to comments made to me in the past by Emma. One of them I believe you found quite humorous. I did not share your opinion and found it rather insulting as well as irritating - it was not amusing to me and your reaction to her seemed to encourage that behavior. I have continued to either ignore her comments altogether or use a lot of patience in responding as I have noticed that I am not the only one she has been confrontational with. I suppose I did finally run low on patience. I have a tendency ? if possible ? to try to use humour to diffuse tension, and to draw attention to approaches that can generate conflict. But as a forum member you should be well aware that we recommend you to contact any moderator if you feel there are unjustified and offensive personal comments in the posts. You have never done this, and so now it is too late to even know what might have offended you in the past. Using a tit for tat approach to irritating comments in the forum is always going to result in escalating annoyance. There are responses that I would like to make on your other points, but after consulting with another moderator it seems best to accept that this thread has run its course as far as the astrological discussion is concerned, and that there is too high a risk of impatience and annoyance coming through the posts to make it feasible to keep it open. Now that you have been able to express your opinion, and leaving my comments tempered by Yuzuru?s supportative response, this seems to be a good time to close the thread and bring this discussion to its close. Regards to all Deb