I also agree with the rough period into which was started the Saturn Firdaria, mainly 2007-2008 (Since the Satuns-Mars opposition is the main trait in the chart, I'd say the Mars-Saturn or Saturn-Mars Firdaria is the most likely to produce death).

I did take a look at the SR charts from 1995 on and since I determined that the Anaereta is either Mars or Saturn, a return with Saturn in the AC in bad position that had any agreement with the Firdaria could point the correct time (The ruler of the house coming to the AC in the SR points the event, in my practice. Likewise, ruler of 9th to the 1st, goes to university, ruler of 7th to the AC, marriage, ruler of 5th to the AC means child and so on). The 2007 SR does have Saturn on the AC in Leo, reversing the axis of the 2nd-8th, and putting the AC on the 12th.

Also, by secondary progression, a look at the Moon is interesting, since she conjuncts the DC during this period, giving a reinfocerment to the analogy that the giver of life is "going down" (I was looking for a conjunction or aspect of the Moon to either Mars or Saturn, but that's allright I guess).

In due time I'll take a look at primary, profections and transits, But it is stated by Dr. H that there is a 8th house profection during this period.

Although not impossible, I'd say the years of the Moon firdaria are unlikely to produce death, since she is so strong and is the Hyleg in this chart. I thought as well that during the Mercury Fidar we could see death, since Mercury rules the 12th, but did not find any overwhelming signs, AND during this period Deb was not practising (at least in the start of the 90's) so I ruled that out (I guess a little bit of logic does help out no?).

So, answer for now is somewhere between 2007-2008-early 2009. I'll look at transits, LR, directions and such, if my answer is within the correct period, and after the broad answer is given, in order to narrow down the possible time.

Martin Gansten wrote: A quick web search indicates that Kessinger Publishing is your best option. Their books are not pretty, and I am sure Worsdale would have called them Pirates (yes, with a capital P!), but I agree that the work is worth having.

Reading your book I would say you were not happy with Placido, but what I saw here from you I never saw not even in CieloeTerra

margherita

Gjiada wrote:Reading your book I would say you were not happy with Placido, but what I saw here from you I never saw not even in CieloeTerra

Well, I did try to do an accurate impersonation of a Placidus devotee -- specifically, Worsdale. I won't recommend the techniques until we know the answer!

I spent some time over the weekend to locate specific days in the 2006-2007 critical period mentioned in my second post. This post consolidates the findings of my previous 2 posts and will be the final submission.

The premise is that since the person was born with Mars-Saturn opposition so close to the MC-IC axis, it must play a central role at the time of death by activation via direction/progression and transits.

The person turned 18 in 1983 and the first activation of Mars-Mc-Saturn by solar arc direction since 1983 was in 1995 July when solar arc directed Neptune squared natal Saturn (and applied a conjunction to natal MA/SA) and a month later Mars-Mc-Saturn began a direction to natal Mercury. A critical period in Oct/Nov 1995 was identified in my first post.

Further activations of Mars-Mc-Saturn in subsequent years were considered and another critical period in 2006-2007 was identified in my second post.

Mars-Mc-Saturn will direct to Sun between April 2006 and February 2008 and more specifically, solar arc directed

MA/SA will make an exact sesquisquare to Sun on March 13, 2007.

Mars will direct to Pluto and Uranus will direct to Asc in August of 2007.

So it appears that about 6 months on either side of March 13,2007 need to be looked closely via transits. I found at least 4 date-ranges between September 10, 2006 and September 11,2007 that were very critical and selected the one closest to March 13,2007.

March 22-26, 2007 featured a Fixed cross formed by the transiting Mars-Saturn opposition and the natal Neptune - AS/MC opposition illuminated by transiting Sun applying semi and sesquisquares to this cross.

Now I have to decide which of the 2 critical periods(1995 Oct/Nov, 2007 March) reflects the fatal accident better.


The Mars-Mc-Saturn direction to Mercury in 1995-96 is indicative of pre-meditated death(suicide, murder, terminally ill patient thinking about death). But the first line of the first post in this thread says "The birth chart shown below is for a man who went missing following an accident". So that rules out the 1995 Oct/Nov period since the death occurred by an accident(especially since there is an applying Uranus direction squaring the Asc in March of 2007).

I have to conclude that if the person did indeed die following an accident sometime during the last 25 years, the fatal accident is most likely to have occurred during the one year period from September 10, 2006 to September 11, 2007 and more specifically between March 22 and 26 of 2007.

oops! ran a different time in my astro-program!!!

re-post later

Hi Estebon (and all)

There have been some fascinating contributions, so thank you to everyone. As soon as I can find the time to make a more thoughtful contribution to this thread ? before this weekend ? I will narrow the time frame to a period of 5 years and I will give some details of how the death occurred. Then contributors will be asked to sharpen their suggested timeframes, so that we will be dealing with weeks rather than years.

Regards for now
Deb

Putting my two cents in before you post!

Things I note about this chart first alignments with some stars

Brady Parans have moon rising with Rigel
anne wright - If Rigel is conjunct with the Sun, Moon, MC or Ascendant, quick rise in life is promised on account of a strong, inherent will power, love of action, and a lucky hand in enterprise. A continuous battle to retain an acquired position has to be waged. This fight at the same time stimulates an increase in vigor. Even in spite of unhelpful aspects, success and reaching the set aim can be secured by this powerful concentration. If however the native is not cautious or has an attack of weakness, failure and disappointments, a fall from success will follow. Tradition regarding the influence of Rigel is quite contradictory, implying again that the cosmogram must be fully analyzed. After the first world war, at the time of the first transatlantic flights, Elsbeth Ebertin noted a connection of Rigel to the Sun and Moon, in charts of several world record pilots, leading to sudden difficulties in the carrying out of planned enterprises resulting in failures to reach the set target. [Fixed Stars and Their Interpretation, Elsbeth Ebertin, 1928, p.32.]
makes me think of plane crash.... anyway just one note among many


heliacal setting star: Zubeneshamali ? the North scale
ann wright page...
History and Legend: Libra was not considered a separate constellation by the ancients and was called Chelae, or the Claws of Scorpio, which sign was made to consist of 60?. The present constellation figure is said to represent the balance wherein Astraea weighed the deeds of men and presented them to Jupiter. [Robson*, p.49.]
Influences: Ptolemy makes the following observations: "Those stars at the points of the claws of Scorpio operate like Jupiter and Mercury: those in the middle of the claws, like Saturn, and in some degree like Mars." By the Kabalists, Libra is associated with the Hebrew letter Heth and the 8th Tarot Trump "Justice". [Robson*, p.49-50.]
Notes: A pale emerald star situated in the northern scale of the Balance. Its proper name is Zubeneschamali, from Al Zuban al Shamaliyyah, the Northern Claw, a reference to the ancient celestial sphere in which Libra was omitted and Scorpio occupied 60?. It is symbolically called the Full Price. [Robson*, p.203.]
Influences: According to Ptolemy it is of the nature of Jupiter and Mercury, but later writers have considered it similar to Jupiter and Mars, and Alvidas likens it to Mars in sextile to Jupiter. It gives good fortune, high ambition, beneficence, honor, riches, and permanent happiness. [Robson*, p.203.]
Aligned With Neptune: Occult writer or speaker, medical or chemical discoveries, practical, kind, sympathetic, alive to self interests, gain through marriage and business, disharmony with parents, grandparents or relatives, legacy obtained through litigation, suffers from accidents, death resulting from previous injury. [Robson*, p.204.]

Mercury with Sadalmelek - Occult interests and research, criticized, favorable for friendship, success in large companies, loss through servants. [Robson*, p.201.]

Hamal With Venus: Handsome, quiet, envious, jealous, domestic trouble, ill-health to native or family.

Hamal is the forehead of the Ram

Betelgeuze With Saturn: Shrewd, cunning, craftily dishonest, treacherous to friends, eventful life with many ups and downs, eventual wealth but little comfort, unfavorable for domestic matters. [Robson*, p.147.]

now more my own observations...

Mars and Pluto hugging the IC, do indeed suggest a violent connection with earth. And Saturn on the MC authority in career, if he mastered it, which I kind of think he did if he lived into his twenties or later. The very tight T square of the whole chart makes me think that his exterior was regimented, while his heart (moon) was off in its own world. Though the Moon is sextile Mercury within 5 degrees so possibly he did communicate those emotions now and then.

Nov 15 1984 Saturn aligned heliacal setting star and sun was closely aligned as well. Also closely coincided with lunar return. With Mercury and Uranus at 12 Sagittarius

Saturn Opposes Sun (and incidentally transiting sun opposes natal sun as well) on 6 Dec 1986, Also is conj the South Node, when he?s 21 years old. A time of life when people do travel a bit more and such, whether to go to school or work or vacation, 21 is a time when one is bound ot explore a bit which is something that can be dangerous. Transiting Jupiter Hits natal Saturn, Jupiter rules natal 6th, so something to consider, Mercury ruler of the 12th in 5th house of speculation. Really just Saturn Sun completing the natal Grand Cross could be pretty dangerous with the planets involved. Though Saturn and sun in Sag would suggest a fiery crash. A few things come to mind, a small plane crash do to ice on the wings, a crashing down to earth. Since Leo rules 3rd house and Sun is there with Saturn a Car crash would not be surprising, would he have had a girl friend with him? Suggested by this opposition occuring with rulers of both 7th house conj. Kissing and driving is not a good combination, eyes are better on the road, or driving away upset by someone not good either, anyway, this is to me the First best contender for a premature end of life.

February 12/13th 1995, Saturn would have squared his natal Sun, by March, sun and Saturn Conj at 14 Pisces to Still be square to natal sun (within 2 degree orb), With Jupiter in his own sign of Sagittarius at 14 degrees opposing natal Sun, is this helpful or hurtful? Certainly a period that might require review. This one occurs with a lunar return.

1 May 2000 Saturn opposes heliacal setting star

In August of 2001 about the 3rd Saturn conj his sun for the second time in his life, and the interesting thing about this alignment is that Pluto and Mars are in Opposition to Saturn at 12 and 16 degrees of Sagittarius. A close mimic of the natal alignment. Strong secondary contender I should think.

If by this time our friend has survived all these adverse conditions then Saturn retrogrades to conjoin his sun again on 22 November 2001 and 21 April 2002. Now the last Death chart I looked at with that transit, the young man did not make the 3rd transit, his cancer had remission with the retrograde and killed him by the third hit, so if an illness involved I strongly suspect this would have done the gentleman in.

On 22 Nov you have only Pluto opposing Saturn, and on 21 April as well, though getting out of alignment. The first hit on this Saturn transit looks the strongest.

The next Saturn Transit to worry over would have been the 12 Virgo 25 at about 9 Sept 2008. This one has Sun aligning with Natal Pluto and Mars as well as Saturn Squaring Natal sun. and Probably the few weeks leading up to the square would have been dangerous as well. With Uranus down in the bottom of the natal chart as well an unexpected passionate meeting with the earth, does seem to be the method of death. (I do wonder if blunt force trauma to head was not also involved, the whole Hamal thing.

I?ve mostly covered Saturn Transits, since Saturn from birth is in a bit of a messy alignment with Sun, and rules the 8th house. I Included a few of the fixed stars because I?m inclined to. Fixed star translations mostly from http://www.constellationsofwords.com/ and from Bernadette Brady?s Fixed Stars book.

well okay a few thoughts there, think that 1986 and 2001 are strongest targets, with 1995 and 2008 coming in as 3rd and 4th best possibilities.
I look forward to your next clue.

Granny

Based on Solar returns and secondary progressions, I am going with his 40th year as the one in which he died. Narrowing it down by using lunar returns, my best guess is the lunar month beginning March 10, 2006.

Ellen

If alternate guesses are allowed, I'd like to add his thirtieth year, that is from June 3, 1995 until June 2, 1996.

In addition, there is danger of death beginning with his thirty sixth solar return, June 2, 2001, and for the ensuing two years.

Ellen

Thanks Granny and Ellen (and everyone)

I have put more details about the circumstances of this event in the ?members only? area - here on this link:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4664

In addition to those extra details concerning the accident, I will now tell you that the accident happened sometime between January 2001 and January 2006. Please ignore the comments that some people have made about me not being active for some of that time, as there is no time in the period I have just mentioned when I wasn?t doing some charts for people who had serious concerns.

Now that I have narrowed the time frame, everyone is free to resubmit if they wish. But from now on there doesn?t seem any point in trying to identify a year. Narrow it down to a period of a month or two at least.

I think it is possible to get the month of this event if you heed what I say about finding a time when the connection to the birth chart was quite dramatic. I also think that if you get the month, you may well get the day. In fact, I?ll tell you this, the moment of the accident occurred with the transit Moon in perfect alignment with the natal Moon. So if you get the day right, you may well be able to identify the exact moment that this occurred.

Thank you, everyone, for offering such interesting contributions so far.
Deb

The most dramatic transits (imo) happened during the opposition between Saturn and Pluto in transit, from mid-2001 to first trimestre of 2003.

Saturn passed on top of his Sun some times during this timeframe, squaring natal Saturn and his Pluto-Mars conjunction, and forming a grand square with such positions and T Pluto..........

The date that drew my attention the most was 21 july 2001, when T Mars conjuncted T Pluto and re-created the Pluto-Mars conjunction of the chart, and the pair's opposition to Saturn. The same aspect would be repeated many times after this date, but I think this particular day had the tightest aspects to his chart and, more importantly, to his sun.

Since I'm not sure if this is the right day, I will shut up now and won't try to find the hour.

Anyways, that is a great exercise! Thanks Deb.

Thanks Sunmachine

Now that I have added the extra information, can anyone who has previously proposed more than one time period, now determine the one period they would propose more than any other. (A period of one or two months max; closer is better.) I'll take this as your final suggestion.

The same for anyone who proposed dates outside the acknowledged limits - please feel free to resubmit, but make one specific seletion only.

Afterwards it should be interesting to see how many people, when pushed to be specific, come close to the date; and the techniques that were used in the process.

Deb