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Taurus7
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 467
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Deb:
| Quote: | | So this was asked 'after all was said and done'. I personally think this is the wrong way to use horary – or else, I would see the question as relating to another concern, beyond whether the opportunity will be offered. Maybe the Moon’s application to the 9th ruler in the 8th house is revealing that his real concern is wrapped up in anxiety that he will get accepted, and will then feel obliged to pursue an opportunity that is not suitable for him, because of the public status and supposed reputation of the university. Why else would he get this moment of concern after he has sent the application, and done everything that he possibly can? That’s the moment when most people start to relax, and stop worrying for a while. I would want to probe this, because it is possible that what we might judge to be a succesful outcome is only the start of the problem; and what we might see as the negative might actually be the perfect solution for this particular querent. |
I just love it when it when you pop into a discussion!! 
I asked him why he asked the question when he did. He answered that he worked really, really hard at the application. He would really like to go there. He worked on the application for days, researched everything he possibly could, and once the application was submitted, he wanted to know if his hard work would yield the result that he would like. I asked him whey he did not ask the question before, and he answered because he had not submitted the application as of yet, so he had not done the legwork that was required, so how can he ask a question about it, if he has not even "headed" in that direction, so to speak.
Actually, he worked so hard at this application, he immediately got sick after submitting it. I think he worked his mind so hard that his immune system broke down a bit afterwards - honest! Which led me to the moral conclusion that I think it's really unfair of these prestigious universities to exert this kind of pressure on young 18 year olds!
Personally, I would say this to you. If you lose an object that is of importance to you, they tell you not to ask a horary as to its whereabouts until you have done everything to find it - right? So along the same lines, he has done everything he can to gain admission into the university, he focused completely on the application - and then, once the application was submitted, he let his mind relax and the question came to him. I have been doing horary for years, but he never asked me a horary about anything; this was his first. Whether or not he will get into Stanford is clearly a matter of concern to him.
I think it's similar to if you go to an interview for a job, you really want the job, and as you walk out of the office, you ask the question "Will I get the job?"
Whether or not this is the correct application of horary, I don't know. But what I do know is that questions like these are clearly of great concern to our hearts, and they seem to be directed by the universe itself, to be asked at that particular moment in time. |
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janeg
Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Well, that's two strikes against my initial reading 
1. He likes the school
2. His parents don't 'exalt' it
I feel for your son, have two daughters that went through university and they tied themselves in knots for months worrying if they'd get accepted by a school they wanted.
Hope things work out well for him. |
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dr. farr
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 277
Location: los angeles, california usa
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Janeg: since becoming a member of Skyscript last month I have read many of your postings: in my opinion you do excellent work and I consider you an astrology expert.
As in natural healing (my professional field), prognostic investigation of subtle, macrocosmic influences and their ramifications is a difficult (though highly satisfying) endeavor. In my analysis of the "missing man in Boston" death which I will be posting shortly (conclusion being accidental death due to sudden sickness-probably connected with some type of internal toxemic reaction) there is every possibility that in a couple of weeks, when the post mortem results are in, my analysis will be completely exploded, leaving me with a large quantity of egg on my face! However, as I always tell my students, being dead wrong on occasion-and being only PARTIALLY correct much more frequently-comes with the territory. |
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janeg
Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| dr. farr wrote: | | Janeg: since becoming a member of Skyscript last month I have read many of your postings: in my opinion you do excellent work and I consider you an astrology expert. |
Thank you for the kind words; life long student is closer to the mark though.
| Quote: |
As in natural healing (my professional field), prognostic investigation of subtle, macrocosmic influences and their ramifications is a difficult (though highly satisfying) endeavor. |
Do you practice homoeopathy?
| Quote: |
In my analysis of the "missing man in Boston" death which I will be posting shortly (conclusion being accidental death due to sudden sickness-probably connected with some type of internal toxemic reaction) there is every possibility that in a couple of weeks, when the post mortem results are in, my analysis will be completely exploded, leaving me with a large quantity of egg on my face! However, as I always tell my students, being dead wrong on occasion-and being only PARTIALLY correct much more frequently-comes with the territory. |
lol...the egg-on-the-face does seem to come with the territory; I don't mind the egg, I do feel it's necessary to own up to it, as Valen's, Lilly, and numerous other early astrologer's remind us, be thou humble ... 'cause if you aren't, the Art itself will remind you of the need  |
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dr. farr
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 277
Location: los angeles, california usa
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:56 am Post subject: |
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Yes, my degree is doctor of medical science in homeopathy, and I've been a homeopathic practitioner since 1982 (also use herbal remedies and certain bioenergetic applications as well), and I have been teaching homeopathy (and bioenergetics) at the American University of Complementary Medicine (Beverly Hills, CA) since 1996.
+Being a homeopath inclines one to look at things on a "totality" of indications ("symptoms") basis, rather than toward isolating single elements in a case. This mindset dominates my way of looking at astrological influences, making me always pay most attention to the over all "pattern" or "essence" of a chart, rather than to any specific element in it, and then-based upon this over all "pattern" or "essence"-to interpret each individual element within the "meaningfull context" of that over all "essence". This "homeopathic" mindset also leads one to search for "strange rare peculiar persistent" characteristics (that's how homeopaths look at their cases) to provide keys to the "essence" of a chart, rather than giving prime consideration to broad but less "characteristic" chart indications.
+Homeopaths (and bioenergetic practitioners) also search for subtle indications in their therapeutic cases, often giving much more value to these hidden indications than to the more apparent, obvious symptoms. Likewise in my astrological analyses I search for the less obvious influences, like fixed star parallels, Pauline profection indications, monomoria relationships, the 12ths of signs, connections involving the Dragon's Tail, "dynamic" dodekatemoria, a wide variety of "Arabic" Parts, etc. So, because of my "homeopathic" mindset, my way of considering astrological indications is often fundamentally different from that of other astrological practitiomers. |
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janeg
Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Hi Dr Farr, thank you for the reply. Sounds like a an interesting, and thorough approach, to the chart. |
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voyagergirl
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 312
Location: Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject: Will I get into Stanford? |
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As I read the chart, the answer is no. I base my interpretation on the fact that the ruler of the ninth, Saturn, is not making an aspect to the ruler of the first, the Moon. While I would agee that generally Jupiter rules higher education (and therefore will be in a sextile with the Moon) Jupiter is in the 8th house of worry and disappointment.
Not only that, the degree on the ninth house cusp is 28, signifying something "too late" about the issue.
I hope I'm wrong, because Stanford has an excellent reputation (though it's NOT an Ivy League school)!
The "real" ivies are all on the east coast and they: Brown, Columbia, Dartmouth, Cornell, Harvard, University of Pennsylvania and Yale.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League |
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voyagergirl
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 312
Location: Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: Oops! forgot Princeton |
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The last of the 8 Ivy League schools is Princeton. Sorry, all you Princeton grads!
But while I'm at it, I also wonder if Saturn posted in the eighth in this chart could mean that there will be no financial aid or scholarship coming even if he is accepted: and the lack of financial support could mean that he must attend college elsewhere.
Please keep up posted! |
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Taurus7
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 467
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:53 am Post subject: |
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VoyagerGirl:
| Quote: | | As I read the chart, the answer is no. I base my interpretation on the fact that the ruler of the ninth, Saturn, is not making an aspect to the ruler of the first, the Moon. |
I think you are using a house system other than Regio, resulting in Saturn ruling the 9th. For those of us who used Regio, we had Jupiter ruling the 9th, and thus came to a potential "Yes" answer because of the sextile of the Moon to Jupiter.. Therefore, since this is a chart to which we will have a definite yes or no answer by Dec 15th, the outcome should be interesting in terms of which house is the qualifier, and then it would be a question of "why" that house.
| Quote: | | Not only that, the degree on the ninth house cusp is 28, signifying something "too late" about the issue. |
I thought the "late" degree rule applied only to the ascendant and this is the first time I see a reference to a house cusp. I have also seen it being applied as a "critical" degree if a planet is in that degree. But never to a house cusp. Where did you pick this up from?
Thanks. |
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voyagergirl
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 312
Location: Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:58 am Post subject: stanford acceptance? |
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You're correct: 0 degrees Pisces rules the 9th and thus is signified by Jupiter.
Still, what troubles me is the 9th house significator in the 8th house.
As for having an interpretation of a matter being "too late" regarding a cusp that is more than 27 degrees, I believe I got that from either Lee Lehman or Barbara Watters. |
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Taurus7
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 467
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:26 am Post subject: |
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He was rejected by Stanford. Despite the fact that just yesterday he got 3 awards from his High School (one for scoring in the top 2 percent in the entire nation for the test that you take for admission into a University), he was rejected. Does this mean that Regiomontanus is the wrong house system? Does this have anything to do with Stanford being in the 8th? Does this imply that if one of the significators is in the 8th, even an applying aspect will not bring about perfection?
While I am somewhat relieved because I really didn't want him to go so far away, but he is very disappointed and I feel really bad, because he really did work very hard not just with the application essays, but the entire 4 years at school in an effort to maintain outstanding grades (which he did), and other activities. Of course, there are other schools that he will be applying to, which may respond more favorably to his application.
But let's go back to the horary. What in the horary indicates this rejection?
Thanks. |
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dr. farr
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 277
Location: los angeles, california usa
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:16 am Post subject: |
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As I had posted earlier in this thread, I would not (and did not) consider this chart radical because of the Dragon's Tail posited in the asc: this makes the chart testimonies very unreliable ("corrupts the chart" according to Gerard of Cremona), so I would have recommended that the question be asked at another time. In natal, electional, event and mundane branches, Dragon's Tail in the asc is considered (by many practitioners of the past, at least) to be a highly inauspicious testimony- perhaps it proved to be so in this case (considered a double malefic, combining mars+saturn negative indications within itself)
Relative to house systems, I have expressed my enthusiasm for the whole sign system elsewhere on Skyscript several times, and also have posted a couple of my findings comparing whole sign predictive results with Placidus + Regiomantus results (eg the R. Boulin case in the Kepler Key thread), however, in this matter of house system selection it depends upon the experiences and insight of each practitioner. |
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Carol
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Taurus 7 wrote: | Quote: | | But let's go back to the horary. What in the horary indicates this rejection? |
Maybe this is a good example of the main significators just being a little too weak in spite of the favorable applying aspect, i.e., Moon and Jupiter both peregrine, Jupiter in the 8th, Moon in an intercepted position even though in the strong 10th, and South Node in the 1st. |
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Deb
Administrator
Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3054
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry to hear of your dissapointment.
I think the chart is descriptive, but unfortunately I've never seen a succesful and happy outcome to a horary where the Moon or a main significator is located in the 8th house. Either what is asked about won't happen, or if it does happen it will lead to despair. |
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steven
Moderator
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 321
Location: Hamar, Norway
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I've never seen a succesful and happy outcome to a horary where the Moon or a main significator is located in the 8th house. |
Just catching up on some reading today and have to agree with Deb here about the 8th. I also think in this particular case it is made somewhat more "negative" in that Jupiter is not only in the 8th hiding its testimony from the ascendant but it is also in the 12th from its own domicile Pisces which renders it in aversion. We must always consider that the strength of a planets testimony towards the matters of its domicile is always relative to its ability to see that domicile. This was the primary rule in all of the ancients considerations, whether they were speaking of the lord of the year in a mundane chart to Masha'allah's choosing of significators based on the strength of their testimony.
| Quote: | «And when the rising sign and its degree, and the sign of the Midheaven and its degree, have been disclosed to you, and you have noted the seven planets in their degrees which are the dispositors, according to the command of God, and the houses in which they are, and in their minutes with a number most certain and absolute from which nothing small or very great fails, then look at the lord of the Ascendant and the Moon, and work by means of that one which you will find to be the stronger, and let the other be a sharer with it. That is, you will begin looking at the lord of the Ascendant. If it aspects the rising sign, this will be the one [to use] because of the strength of its testimony. Therefore [you will begin] working by means of it, and the Moon will be made a sharer with the lord of the Ascendant in whichever place the Moon may be.»
Chapter II – “On Reception” – by Masha’allah |
The strength of a planets testimony is relative to its "aspect" to its domicile. This is also why Valens writes:
| Quote: | «And all things that the ruler is at times accustomed to produce by its own nature, whether good or base, or lesser or greater, each one of the zoidia [signs] will also produce according to whether the figure description of its ruler is operative or unprofitable…»
Book I, chapter 2 - - “The Anthology” of Vettius Valens, Translated by Robert Schmidt and published by Golden Hind Press. |
Lilly was not unaware of this foundation for he writes;
| Quote: | «We understand a Planet to be ill disposed, when Peregrine, Retrograde, Combust, Cadent from the Ascendant or house of the thing demanded, so that he beholds not the house, or at least the Lord of the house, in this nature the aspect to the house is better than to the Lord thereof…»
Book II, Page 184-185 – “Christian Astrology” – by William Lilly |
Just some thoughts.
Steven
PS: for a positive result I also would have preferred to see the lord of the 9th a lighter planet than the lord of the ascendant and in aspect to its domicle as well as the ascendant. |
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