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1/12/10: 7.0 Haiti earthquake causes massive destruction
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MikeCoop



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 165
Location: Hythe,Kent UK

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi you might wish to consider mundane charts for Haiti. Campion gives 1 JAN 1804 when Haiti gained full de jure independance. However his chart doesn't have an accurate time,(so he uses noon) so can't really comment on the angles without some kind of rectification. Its very noticeable though that this chart has Saturn at 3 degrees Libra, and 4 planets in Capricorn, SUn, Mars, Mercury and Venus. So entirely locked into the recent aspect picture!
mike c
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deeptiman



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 76
Location: São Paulo-SP brazil

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,if we stick to the medieval way of calculation,setting ingress charts for the moment when the Sun reaches 0 degrees and one minut,not zero degrees and zero minuts,the I.C. of the previous Solar ingress chart reachs 19 degrees,an important feature to look,because is nearest the point of the Jupiter/ Saturn conjunction...
All the best
Gerson
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dr. farr



Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 276
Location: los angeles, california usa

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Relative to Eddy's last post:
+Only 2 specifically "earthquake stars" have been identified in a search of the fixed star literature so far (by Tham and myself):
-Sheratan (primary source Robson)
-Alkaid (primary source Ebertin)

+There are several important indications* from classical Chinese astrology relating to the time of the Haiti quake (while not a follower of Chinese astrology in practice, I have been very influenced by several classical Chinese astrology concepts in a number of areas, especially regarding the importance of correctly understanding-and paying much attention to- the QUALITY of time) In the quote cited by Eddy, Chinese 5 Element theory is applied to the underlying elemental quality of earthquakes: translating the meaning of this quote into our (Western astrology) terminology, it is the elemental quality we call "mutable earth" which is being described. In the Haiti quake chart, Saturn (significator of the Part of Destruction in that chart) is posited in the starry constellation of Virgo which-like the sign of Virgo-is of mutable earth quality (using Whole Sign, Saturn and this constellation are posited in the 4th House {by the way, the only house system which places Saturn in the highly appropriate 4th House is Whole Sign-all others systems posit Saturn in the 3rd House}; so we see an interesting connection here between the Chinese 5 Element explanation of the nature of earthquakes, and what actually occured in Haiti at the time of the quake involving "mutable earth"...)

+Still referring to the Chinese 5 Element quote-relating it to the time and macrocosmic circumstances of the Haiti quake-we find... "a strong Water element"...concommitant with the "weakened Earth" situation due to the Asc degree being in watery Cancer (square "by sign" to the 4th House) ; we find the malefic "Wood" element (Wood=Air element)-mentioned in Eddy's 5 Element quote-as the air sign Libra occupying the 4th House (by Whole Sign)-with Saturn posited therein-in the Haiti quake chart.

+If we look exclusively at the starry constellations (excluding the signs) in the quake chart, we shall still find the "Chinese 5 Element earthquake formula" fulfilled:
-constellation of Virgo (mutable earth) in 4th House (by Whole Sign) with Saturn posited therein;
-constellation of Gemini (Air="Wood") in 1st House, "attacking" Virgo (Earth) by square to Virgo;
-constellation of Pisces (Water) in 10th House (by Whole Sign) providing "...strong Water element", "undermining" "Earth" (Virgo) by oppposition.
(Interesting that each of the 3 involved starry constellations is mutable in expression of modality)


*One of these indications relates to the time of the Haiti quake: according to the Chinese zodiacal clock, 3 to 5 PM (standard time) is under the influence of the "Monkey", the (correct) Western zodiacal equivalent being the sign of Virgo (mutable earth): the Haiti quake hit at 4:53 PM.
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kurgal



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 197
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeCoop wrote:
hi you might wish to consider mundane charts for Haiti. Campion gives 1 JAN 1804 when Haiti gained full de jure independance. However his chart doesn't have an accurate time,(so he uses noon) so can't really comment on the angles without some kind of rectification. Its very noticeable though that this chart has Saturn at 3 degrees Libra, and 4 planets in Capricorn, SUn, Mars, Mercury and Venus. So entirely locked into the recent aspect picture!
mike c


I saw that too.

Seems very significant that Haiti is experiencing an exact Saturn return, squared by Pluto.

In fact, Haiti has an exact Mars/Saturn square in its mundane chart (Mars squaring from 3 degrees Capricorn). Pluto is of course transiting over 3 degrees Capricorn.

Saturn/Pluto configurations are linked to hardship and suffering. And a transiting Saturn/Pluto square triggering a natal Mars/Saturn square isn't going to be much fun for anyone.
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More information on the founding eclipse of Saros 12N series that occured on 19 May 1613:
The reason that the eclipse is directed exactly 400 degrees by solar arc in 396,75 years to 28GE39 in 2010 is, as far as I can work out, due to the precession of the equinoxes. In comparison, as refered to, the position of Algol was 22 Taurus in 1613 in comparison with 26 Taurus today.

From this point several steps of research make sense: One is to monitor the solar arc direction of the eclipse in historical retrospect and examine whether similar earthquakes occured at similar points of time, ie intervals of 31 years (~average 30°:0°58'=31). Another is to backtrack on the Saros 12N eclipses, the being one on 4 January 1992, 24 December 1973, 14 December 1955, 2 December 1937 etc. but there may be several conditions to be fulfilled at the same time, and one of these could be related to Venus and the Moon's nodes. Why Venus? Well, remember that the initiating eclipse of 1613 occured in 28TA38. This makes Venus the eclipse ruler - so whatever she is doing gets interesting.

There is no major earthquakes on record for 1613. Actually, there did occur a significant earthquake in Greece this year, but apart from that many were killed - the details are scarce. Because every year includes a number of earthquake of the size 6,0 Richter or larger, it would be necessary to plough through these records for matching criteria.
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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Location: Netherlands

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dr. farr wrote:
I have been very influenced by several classical Chinese astrology concepts in a number of areas, especially regarding the importance of correctly understanding-and paying much attention to- the QUALITY of time)
The element of Chinese astrology/astronomy which I find very interesting is the use of the equator as reference frame (rather than the ecliptic of western astrology), and the use of the meridian clock related to the flows of the meridians of acupunture.

Western astronomy of today also uses the celestial equator as reference frame. On www.ephemeris.com both ecliptical and equatorial positions are shown.
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Tham



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 23
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

" In mundane maps, there is an indication of mass catastrophes, should
either Mars, Saturn or Uranus be in this first degrees of Sagittarius,
especially in an angular position. "

http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Dschubba.html
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dr. farr



Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 276
Location: los angeles, california usa

Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following MikeCoop's and Kurgal's observations regarding the January 1, 1804 Haiti "National Natal Chart" (nnc) in comparison to the quake chart, in addition to their findings:

+quake Saturn (Significator of the Part of Destruction in the quake chart) -at 4Libra39- conjuncts the nncAscendant (9Libra10); quake Saturn is also in near-partile conjunction with the nncSaturn (3Libra)

+the nncAscendant (9Libra10) is 14 minutes conjunct the quake IC (8Libra56), which is the "cusp" or "sensitive point" of the quake 4th House, wherein (by Whole Sign) Saturn (Lord of the Part of Destruction in the quake chart) is posited

+quake Part of Destruction (8Aquarius) approaches nncPart of Fortune in same sign (nncPart of Fortune @ 20Aquarius43) {thereby-to my way of thinking-showing a malefic trend)

+quake Neptune (24Aquarius57) conjunct nncPart of Fortune (20Aquarius43)

+quake Mars (16Leo) approaches nncMoon (28 Leo) in same sign {thereby showing a malefic trend}

+quake Mars (16Leo) is in partile conjunction with nncDragon's Tail (15Leo55)

+quake Pluto (3Capricorn41) near (approaching) conjunct nncSun (9Capricorn36) {thereby showing a malefic trend}... and, as Kurgal mentioned, is in partile conjunction with nncMars (3Capricorn10)


VENUS CAZIMI
In the quake chart Venus is posited in the Heart of the Sun (15 minutes from perfect conjunction), ie, within the traditional 17 minute limit defining the state of Cazimi. Interesting to find this testimony as part of a major disaster chart! I submit that Venus Cazimi in the quake chart testifies to the great enhancement of Venus-qualities occasioned by this disaster: Venus signifies sympathy, soothing, the relief of pain and suffering: in response to the Haiti quake there has been a massive outpouring of worldwide sympathy and large movements of money, medicine, food and other aid to that island nation. In fact, as a result of this disaster Haiti will receive more aid from the world over the next year than all of the help it has obtained over the past 10 years combined! This is the meaning of Venus Cazimi in the Haitian quake chart.
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The element of Chinese astrology/astronomy which I find very interesting is the use of the equator as reference frame (rather than the ecliptic of western astrology), and the use of the meridian clock related to the flows of the meridians of acupunture.


Hi Eddy

I don’t know much about the history of Chinese astrology but I was interested to read this comment in Nick Kanas’s *Star Maps, History, Artistry and Cartography*
Quote:

Note that the Chinese celestial sphere contained 365¼ degrees, not the 360 degrees that we use today (p.22)


I find that interesting and wish there was more explanation. This is obviously showing that the sphere was used as a way to divide the year by the day, so its hard to see how that level of dependency upon daylight would not go hand in hand with movement of the Sun – which then makes the trail of the ecliptic fairly essential knowledge.

I am really enjoying this book, although mainly for the analysis of the artistry in star maps, but I wish Kansas had referenced that comment. If you know anything about this, I’d be very interested to know how it worked.

Deb
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Deb
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Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dr farr,

Hi dr farr,

I don't know if I completely agree with you, but I did wonder about the symbolism of Venus coming out of its 'coupling with the Sun' too. First we had the period of really extreme and uncomfortable weather - freezing cold in Europe / melting hot in Australia. Then as Venus started to pull away from the Sun the earthquake occured, whilst the snow melted and Australia cooled from its heatwave. Was this mirroring some kind of 'release of pressure' - I don't know. I do know that Arabian texts talk about the period when Venus moves from under the Sun as associated with increased rainfall and moisture. A very striking analogy is that Venus under the Sun is like a woman under a man, drawing his waters down. I don't think that signifies a danger of flooding, so much as release and relief. So whilst I'm not seeing the event of the earthquake as Venusian in itself, I can relate to what you are suggesting about the emotion of the aftermath.
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haiti Quake, 7,0 Richter, 12 January 2010, 21.53 GMT - 18N27 72W27
Asc 14CN48 MC 8AR47 Sun 22CP36 Moon 26SG28

A new 6,1 Richer quake hit the region today, 20 January 2010, 11.04 GMT - 18N26 72W53
Asc 8CP49 MC 19LI17 Sun 0AQ15 Moon 25PI42

This quake had it's epicentre 8km below the Earth surface in comparison with a depth of 10km on 12 January. Quakes close to the surface have higher intensity an potential for destruction at that level.

There are two factors that are interesting;
1) the Moon has moved 90 degrees from the initial quake, thus repreating the initial tensions. This effect has been seen in previous cases.
2) The 9th degree of cardinal signs appear on the axis of both charts. I said this degee had been active in historical earthquakes. The degree 8 Aries was highlighted in the great earthquake of 18 April 1906.

Previous work printed by TMA: http://www.astronor.com/urania.htm
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that the seismic tensions actually do tend to be repeated with the 90 degree siderical motion of the Moon, may be one of the strongest arguments for a serious scientific enquiry into the astrological. It's a good starting point, in my opinion anyhow.
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew Bevan wrote:
This eclipse belongs to Saros Series 12N that started on 19 May 1613.


Hi Andrew,
Where did you get the number '12N' from? On the NASA website I see that this particular Saros series belongs to the '141' series. http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsaros/SEsaros141.html

For others who want to know more about these 'Saros series': http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsaros/SEperiodicity.html

Deb wrote:
Nick Kanas’s *Star Maps, History, Artistry and Cartography*
Quote:

Note that the Chinese celestial sphere contained 365¼ degrees, not the 360 degrees that we use today (p.22)


I find that interesting and wish there was more explanation. This is obviously showing that the sphere was used as a way to divide the year by the day, so its hard to see how that level of dependency upon daylight would not go hand in hand with movement of the Sun – which then makes the trail of the ecliptic fairly essential knowledge.
Hi Deb,

I was familiar with that particular division, but I'm not sure where I read it, perhaps in Chrisopher Walker's 'Astronomy before the Telescope'. I xeroxed that book some weeks ago and when I get home I will have a look if I can find something. Perhaps your book is in the library too.

Joseph Needham was a famous researcher on Chinese science. Perhaps he was the source. Here's a book on googlebooks and another one here. The links open on the page where these degrees ar explained. More pleasant to read because it can be printed is this shorter text on Chinese astronomy (not of Needham himself) http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1984Obs...104...19K I skimmed through it and it mentions the 'Hsiu', the 28 equatorial sidereal lunar mansions and these Chinese degrees which were mentioned 'Tu' I read somewhere else.

This reminds me of Placidus' key for primary directions using the movement of the Sun in respect to the equator, which if I remember correctly was mentioned by Margherita a couple of months ago. But perhaps I make the incorrect association.

The more schematical 360 system was originally from the Babylonians and is much easier to use for calculations.
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eddy wrote:
Where did you get the number '12N' from? On the NASA website I see that this particular Saros series belongs to the '141' series.

There are different ways of cataloging the Saros. The system of dividing the Saros into 19 Northern and 19 Southern cycles is used by Jansky, among others. Espenak (Mr.Eclipse at NASA) will refuse to discuss the eclipses of Saros in any astrological content.
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Last edited by Andrew Bevan on Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew Bevan wrote:
There are different ways of cataloging the Saros. The system of dividing the Saros into 19 Northern and 19 Southern cycles is used by Jansky, among others. Espenak (Mr.Eclipse at NASA) will refuse to discuss the eclipses of Saros in any astrological content.[/quote
Ah thanks. Jansky wasn't that the man of the birth control astrology?
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