49
Taking up Yuzuru's suggestion of us needing to find testimonies of defeat in incumbents charts lets take a look at Brown's transits at the close of poll
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Brown?s major Ptolemaic transits

- Tr Pluto Rx on MC
-Tr Pluto Rx opposition natal Uranus
-Tr Neptune conj Sun
-Tr Mercury trine MC
-Tr Jupiter (domicile ruler of Sun) conj natal Venus (exaltation ruler of Sun)
-Tr Moon sextile MC (fixed orb 13 degrees)
-Tr Mars (Exaltation ruler of MC + Asc ruler) trine natal ascendant
-Tr Mars conjunct natal Pluto
-Tr Sun (Asc exaltation ruler) trine natal Venus
-Tr Sun square natal Pluto
-Tr Saturn (MC ruler) Rx Conj POF
-Tr Saturn (MC ruler) conj natal Saturn
-Tr MC conjunct natal Saturn
-Tr Venus trine natal Mercury
-Tr Venus sextile natal Asc
-Tr Venus sextile natal Pluto
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

50
However, the Moon here is Lord 12. Its easy to come up with a cliche like 'self undoing' or 'hidden enemies'.
I read in the news that Peter Mandelson, the minister Brown appointed to help his campaign has been conspicuous in his absence over the last couple of days. The reporter was implying that he was plotting for some post-Brown scenario so the 'hidden enemies' cliche may turn out to be true.

Matthew

51
Looking at the traditional planets and using Frawley's approach of focusing purely on the incumbent these transits dont seem to have the signature of complete downfall to me. In fact they are quite good.

As for the the outers the Neptune conjunction to the Sun is a few degrees from perfection across the sign boundary. So does a Pluto transit likes Brown's inevitably indicate his demise? Some clearly believe so. However, I note that Pluto was also prominent in the charts of Margaret Thatcher (Pluto on Sun) and Tony Blair ( Pluto on desc) when they won their first general elections in 1979 and 1997 respectively. The major difference here though is that Brown is already Prime Minister whereas Thatcher and Blair were new to the office. The role represented a complete transformation for them. Clearly losing power would fit the symbolism here. However, the traditional transits dont reflect this. Wouldn't being forced to govern in a coalition not also fit this? I am convinced Labour will do quite poorly electorally so the Liberal Democrats will be in an extremely strong position to demand major concessions from the Labour party.

Lets look at a different kind of chart for Brown. Below is a Lunar Return chart for Brown which extends beyond May 6th in effect. To keep the medievalists content the first chart is located to Brown's birthplace. The second is located for London.
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Contradictions! Venus the domicile ruler of the MC is in partile conjunction with it. Very strong. However, Venus is out of sect as a nocturnal planet in a day chart above the horizon. In the London chart both Venus and the MC are on the fixed star Algol by zodiacal projection. :shock: So is Brown going to 'lose his head' politically? Venus is separating from a square to Neptune and sextile to Uranus. It is applying by trine to Saturn in Virgo. The Moon is separating from a square to the ASC ruler Mercury and void of course. However, the Moon forms a trine to the POF. Brown's ASC ruler is under the beams and Rx. The Sun (Lord 12) forms a trine to the ascendant and Pluto.

Here is the chart located to London.
Image
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

52
I read in the news that Peter Mandelson, the minister Brown appointed to help his campaign has been conspicuous in his absence over the last couple of days. The reporter was implying that he was plotting for some post-Brown scenario so the 'hidden enemies' cliche may turn out to be true.
Hi Matt,

I'm sure there are all kinds of intrigues going on. However, Brown would really have to resign as leader voluntarily for this to happen. Replacing a Labour Leader is a very convoluted process. The election of a Labour leader involves a tripartite electoral college. A third of the votes are from Labour MP's, a third from Trade Union members and a third from constituency party members. Its no secret that people like Harriet Harman and David Miliband have had ambitions to replace Brown for some time. It really depends how the party responds to their substantially reduced number of seats after the election. Brown has shown incredible tenacity to date. If he can conclude a deal with the Lib Dems he may cling on longer than expected. If not his position will be untenable.

I plan to put up the charts for the UK political parties next so this might shed some light.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

53
I've been reading this thread with interest and decided to take a crack at a prediction using Richard Houck's methods which rely on the Sidereal zodiac (Krishnamurti ayanamsa), eclipses, stationary planets, tertiary progressions, transits and a vedic time lord system (Vimsottari Dasa) similar to the Persian Firdar. It's pure speculation as I've only just become familiar with his methods and have not tried using them for any type of forecasting; this is a first shot at it and it assumes I understand at least the basics (which is a big assumption).

Rather than overload the thread with charts I've put them all in a this PDF.

Gordon Brown
The time lords (Dasa/Bhukti rulers) are Mars/Saturn) Saturn rules the 12th and Mars is in the 12th (losses). They are both moving into new signs (new conditions) by tertiary progression with Saturn conjunct his radix PoF. Tertiary Asc is conjunct Uranus (upset) and tertiary Mercury squares his radix MC / Uranus opposition setting up a T-square. Secondary Mars (dasa ruler) is conjunct radix Mercury who disposits Saturn, the bhukti ruler.

Transit Pluto will conjunct his MC while the transit MC conjuncts transit Saturn and both are conjunct secondary Saturn who is conjunct radix PoF.

This looks, to me, that he will lose.


David Cameron
Secondary Jupiter is stationary and square radix Mercury. Jupiter rules the 4th and 7th while Mercury rules the 1st and 10th. This looks, to me, like all areas of his life will stall with the status quo being maintained (he remains leader of the opposition).

His dasa/bhukti rulers are Venus/Saturn. Secondary Venus is trine the stationary Jupiter and secondary Mars is opposing Saturn.

Tertiary Jupiter is conjunct radix Mars.

Transit Jupiter is conjunct radix Saturn and opposed to tertiary Uranus while transit Mars will conjunct his secondary MC.

This also looks like a loss. While Jupiter is a benefic it is stuck, so to speak, in his 12th.

Which leaves

Nick Clegg
Without having an accurate birth time there are still a few interesting elements. As mentioned, by Deb I think, his chart mimics the current Saturn/Uranus opposition only in reverse with Saturn in Pisces being received by an exalted Jupiter in Cancer. And if you look at the UK 1927 chart, Uranus is in Pisces in the 5th of elections in partile trine to Clegg's radix Jupiter. And, if Clegg was born around 2 am, his radix Moon would be at 7 Cancer completing a grand trine with radix Jupiter and the UK Uranus.

Transit Jupiter will conjunct radix Saturn in Pisces. If he was born around 2 am this would be in his 6th which Houck says "is the ability to win over competitiors". Transit Sun will trine his radix Sun.

His chart also forms a T-square, Sun opposite a UK Pre-natal eclipse at 24 Gemini being squared by Mars and his radix Venus conjunct another pre-natal eclipse point at 8 Capricorn while his radix Jupiter opposes it. As he doesn't currently hold a prominent position in British politics the contacts appear to indicate he may be fated to do so.

By contrast, Dave Cameron's radix has only one contact; his radix Jupiter opposes the UK pre-natal eclipse at 8 Capricorn. Brown's chart had radix Saturn trine the same PNE, radix Moon trine the UK SAN and radix nodal axis square the 24 Gemini PNE.

All-in-all this looks like an unlikely win for Clegg.

54
In my opinion, I am concerned that some dangerous event could happen in the UK, more precisely in England from the next full moon of April 28, and that it is involved Mars, which affects England Mars , The UK Mars and UK (MarkC) Mars, all within the last week before the election ...
Studying this position!!!
Regards
Mario
www.siderum.com

55
Hi janeg

Thanks. Good to have a sidereal Jyotish perspective. So from the three likeliest outcomes:

1 Liberal Democrat -Conservative coalition
2 Liberal Democrat -Labour coalition
3 Majority Conservative government

Which are you predicting?

Mark

Ps Its neat the way you fitted all that chart data into a pdf. :' I am too technophobic for that so you will have to put up with my charts cluttering the threads. :(
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

56
The possibility of a hung parliament seems to be strongly predicated in the latest opinion polls. Its very interesting that in an interview apppearing today David Cameron has refused to rule out discussion on electoral reform with the Liberal Democrats. He has indicated negotiation on this would not be a 'deal breaker'. This represents an historic change of positioning for the Conservative party who have tradititionally been the most unflinching supporters of the current first past the post elecoral system. The Labour party are already committed to a change to the electoral system although the system they are advocating is not strictly proportional. Still, it would take little movement for them to include a proportional system in their proposed referendum on electoral reform.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010 ... -coalition
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

57
MarkC wrote:Hi janeg

Thanks. Good to have a sidereal Jyotish perspective. So from the three likeliest outcomes:

1 Liberal Democrat -Conservative coalition
2 Liberal Democrat -Labour coalition
3 Majority Conservative government

Which are you predicting?
Well, it's not exactly a Jyotish perspective; I'm using the Sidereal zodiac with one vedic technique and everything else Western :wink:

I think Labour is going to take a pounding; with a Liberal Democrat win but really no clue if it will be a majority government.

Ps Its neat the way you fitted all that chart data into a pdf. :' I am too technophobic for that so you will have to put up with my charts cluttering the threads. :wink:
It's super easy with OpenOffice ... just export to .pdf :)

58
I thought people might be interested in the charts for the three main political parties in the UK. The source for all of these charts is Nicholas Campion's invaluable 'Book of World Horoscopes'.

The Conservative and Labour party charts are only noon charts. However, The Liberal Democrat chart is timed for the launch of the party in 1988.

For now I am just displying the charts for reference. I intend to offer some delineation later. However, if anyone else else feels inspired to have a go please join in. :D
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As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

59
An update on Nick Clegg's data!

The following is from the Astrological Association of the UK website:
recent information from Nick Clegg?s campaign team gives his birth time as 5.30 am (not 8 am) - another private source has suggested 5 56 am. Both new times indicate a more dynamic and successful person.
Below are are three charts. Clegg's natal chart set for 5.30am, 5.56 and a Biwheel with Clegg's data ( 5.30am) combined with the UK 1927 chart. As you can see Clegg has a really strong connection to this chart.

NB The AA website is displaying the second chart as 00.56am. It remains unclear whether the text or chart being displayed is wrong at present. I have contacted the AA to clear up the confusion on whether the text or chart they have on the website are in error. If it turns out to be the former I will display the other time for the chart.

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As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

60
Thanks for the new info on Clegg, Mark. Looking at a 5:30 am birth, this now gives Clegg a rajayoga in his sidereal chart with the Sun ruling the 10th conjunct Mercury, ruler of the 11th.

The tertiary progressed Mercury and Sun are again conjunct and in opposition to the Moon (Cancer/Capricorn) and forming a grand square with the radix nodal axis (Aries/Libra). His tertiary Asc has just changed into Leo (radix 10th).

Transit Mars (Asc ruler) will conjunct tertiary Sun (L10) on election day and transit Jupiter (ruler of the 5th of politics) will conjunct radix Saturn in the 5th with transit Uranus in the 5th conjunct secondary Saturn.

A win for him still looks possible. Did try to judge if a coalition gov't was likely; the one weakness in Clegg's chart is his 10th house, it's weaker than average which means it's possible it may not have enough power to make him PM. Gordon Brown's chart does have a tertiary change into the 8th (partner resources) so maybe Lib Dem/Labour coalition.