He has elected a great time for his announcement, with Venus on the MC, and the Moon having just entered Pisces about to form a mutually applying sextile with ASC-MC-ruler Mercury, and Sun trine the Ascendant. He is obviously going to claim his glory in that speech.

matt23z wrote:Glad that you are enjoying all the excitement Joakim!!

The latest is that David Cameron will make a statement at 14:30 BST today and that Clegg has said that the Conservatives should have the first chance to form a government.

The electorate have thrown all the cards in the air but maybe some result will be seen today.

Matt

And I was so excited that I forgot time is an hour ahead where I sit so the Mars on Asc stuff I talked about is wrong! But yee I been sitting up all night watching BBC online - I just love these events but it's also an importing and maybe historical moment.

I just love these events but it's also an importing and maybe historical moment.

Indeed a momentous day. Like you I love this kind of political event and this one looks like the big daddy of them all.

I still have a really hard time accepting the Liberal Democrats will ultimately enter a formal coalition with the Conservatives.

There seem to be so many fundamental policy differences such as diametrically different policies on Europe, immigration, and defence. Equally, the Liberal Democrat plans for tackling the deficit are much closer to Labour than the Conservatives. Beyond all this the Conservatives are generally opposed to electoral reform which has been an abiding aim of the Liberal Democrats for decades. David Cameron has offered a commission on electoral reform but this doesn't seem enough for most Lib Dems. David Cameron probably couldn't carry the right of centre grass roots of his party if he offered a referendum on electoral reform. Nick Clegg couldn't carry the left of centre grass roots of his party with anything less than a refendum on electoral reform.

Some cynics even suggest such a negotiation is doomed to failure and that Cameron is only pursuing it for tactical advantage. Even if a coalition doesn't materialize Cameron might try for something less. A political pact that the Liberal Democrats do not oppose a minority Conservative government by opposing them in a vote of confidence. This is probably a more realistic outcome.

The economic instability of the markets and the size of the UK deficit could assist Cameron in that the respect. All parties are very aware that this is not a time for political instability with a run on the pound in the currency markets not that unlikely.

Nevertheless, it will depend how the Liberal Democrat MPs receive any proposed deal. They have a meeting arranged to vote on any proposed agreement this Sunday to discuss the outcome of Liberal Democrat-Conservative negotiations.

Mark

Deb wrote:He has elected a great time for his announcement, with Venus on the MC, and the Moon having just entered Pisces about to form a mutually applying sextile with ASC-MC-ruler Mercury, and Sun trine the Ascendant. He is obviously going to claim his glory in that speech.

14:34 BST exactly as he starts his speach.

Note: the MC of the chart is on the fixed star Aldebaran while the IC is on Antares.

MarkC wrote:

I just love these events but it's also an importing and maybe historical moment.

Indeed a momentous day. Like you I love this kind of political event and this one looks like the big daddy of them all.

I still have a really hard time accepting the Liberal Democrats will ultimately enter a formal coalition with the Conservatives.
...

Mark

I am pretty sure there will not be a Con/Lib coalition but it's a very delicate situation, a real political thriller, who is sharpest, have most brain and will come out on top? Sort of one old and 2 young foxes!

Also note that they have already broken the constitutial process or one can say Brown played a quite smart card there.

Apart from being a rather clever move in the situation, isn't it also a very Piscean thing to do?

Apart from being a rather clever move in the situation, isn't it also a very Piscean thing to do?

In reality it was Clegg's decision not Brown's. Clegg made it clear the largest party should be given the first opportunity to form a government. This flies in the face of convention and rules for hung parliaments agreed before the election. However, Clegg was tapping into public sentiment that the Conservatives had made a substantial electoral advance if not an outright victory.

Electororally its going to be a very tough Parliament for the Conservatives even if they succeed in forming a minority government. The only party the Conservatives might get general support from are the Ulster Unionists. However, they have already 'named their price' which involves protection of their heavy public sector in Northern Ireland. All the other smaller parties-Nationalists, Green, SDLP and Alliance MPs are left of centre and natural opponents of the Conservatives.

Looks like Uranus was having a field day on this one. Does Brown have to resign in favour of Cameron or can he try to back door a deal with the Lib Dem's? Would the electorate have a fit if that happened given the # Conservative seats won?

Looks like Uranus was having a field day on this one. Does Brown have to resign in favour of Cameron or can he try to back door a deal with the Lib Dem's? Would the electorate have a fit if that happened given the # Conservative seats won?

Lets not forget Mercury RX! Plus the Moon was void of course during polling day. This helped create the other big story of the election. Lots of voters were in long queques outside polling stations and prevented from voting before the polls closed. In other polling stations there were not enough ballot papers. At some stations fights broke out with people denied the chance to vote and the Police called out. So not only the result but the process has been marked by chaos. Its really a scandal for a mature democracy like Britain.

Brown doesn't have to resign as long as he can hold out the possibility of a deal with the Liberal Democrats. However, ultimately to form a government Cameron or Brown need to go to the Queen with the understanding they have a viable support in the parliament to pass legislation. Cameron will achieve this if the negotiations going on with the Liberal Democrats this weekend result in tacit support for a government led by Cameron. The Liberal Democrats could do this either by entering a formal coalition or in a more limited pact that they would not vote down a Cameron administration in a vote of confidence. If the negotions with the Liberal Democrats do not go anywhere the initiative then shifts to whether Gordon Brown can convince them to form a coalition with him. Maybe I am biased but I dont see anything shady or underhand about the Liberal Democrats forming a coalition with Labour. Lets remember while the Conservatives did well they didn't win the election. The Conservative share of the vote is only a bit over a third of the electorate. Together the Labour Party and Liberal democrats represent over 50% of the voting public. As I see it a Conservative minority government is less democratically legitimate. However, I am sure Conservative supporters will see things quite differently as will the UK press which is mostly right of centre.

MarkC wrote:

Apart from being a rather clever move in the situation, isn't it also a very Piscean thing to do?

In reality it was Clegg's decision not Brown's. Clegg made it clear the largest party should be given the first opportunity to form a government.

Not quite right, Brown made his statement first on a written note handed out, at 10:25 BST, a bit vauger but clearly indicating he was going to use his constitutional right trying to form a majority. However, Clegg sakn that ship with a clean shot with his statement at 10:40 and then it rolled on with Brown stepping out from No. 10 at 13:42 playing his card before Cameron gave his public proposal to Clegg as 14:32

While Cameron is clever and the most "pollished" my bet is on Clegg to come out as the "winner" but it's very hard to tell "when" it all materialize.

It can as well end in a Lib/Lab deal in the end but only if it secure a Electoral reform. It would also include Brown stepping down but with "dignity".

There is a risk though that "The Market" doesn't allow it all enough time to play out.