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Horoscope for Islamic Religion
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Mark
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Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 4:26 pm    Post subject: Horoscope for Islamic Religion Reply with quote

I thought I would offer something a bit different from the usual issues related to current politics , or news stories.

What about a horoscope for a religion? In particular, I thought I would put up a chart from Nicholas Campion's Book of World Horoscopes on the Islamic era. I haven't tested the chart out but thought it might be interesting to members here to take a look at and discuss.



Here are Nicholas Campion's comments to accompany the chart:

Quote:
The Muslim Era: The Moslem era is dated from Sunset , 16 July 622 CE, the traditional date of Mohammed's arrival into Medina. In spite of the fact that Mohammed in fact arrived in Medina on 2nd July , the beginning of the Moslem era describes the future of Islam.


In the Islamic world history is dated from this time and is termed AH for ‘after the hijra’. Nicholas Campion cast his chart for the estimated sunset of 06:45pm , 16th July 622 CE. Can anyone confirm if Nicholas Campion is right about Muhammed entering Medina on July 2nd? This is certainly not what Islamic sources seem to state. Although that may be a case of the religious myth superceding the historical facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(Islam)

http://www.lgfl.net/lgfl/leas/ealing/web/EGFL1/teaching_learning/subjects/REandSACRE/Festival_calendar/February/Al-Hijra.htm

Incidentally, I found this useful online conventer to change Islamic time period to Gregorian (Common era) or vice versa.
http://www.islamicfinder.org/Hcal/index.php
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Lunlumo



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Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark,
as far as I know there is no reliable evidence concerning Muhammad's arrival in Medina. So one has to be careful with this one. But that day marks the start of the Islamic calendar - and this can't be just mere chance. Islam is a lunar religion - with a lot of Sat. influence. This clearly is in favour of you chart. Practically all of the present Islamic states have a strong Cancer-Capricorn axis and/or a strong Moon.
Anyway, it pays to have a look at the solar spring ingress of that year - 21/March 622, 8:58 GMT. Sorry, I'm unable to present it here..
You'll find a New Moon there.
Regards,
LL
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Eddy



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Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the birth of the founder Mohammed is also of significance. I once read (I don't recall where) that an astrologer believed there was a significant eclipse either related to the founding or the founder of islam, but could be the latter when I look at the eclipses.

I found this eclipse of 1 august 566
http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/5MCSEmap/0501-0600/566-08-01.gif
The eclipse's path is striking, it covers the islamic world. And close to Mecca.


23 July 613, again over Saudi Arabia close to Mecca:
http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/5MCSEmap/0601-0700/613-07-23.gif
21 May 616, idem north SA
http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/5MCSEmap/0601-0700/616-05-21.gif
2 sept 620, idem south point SA peninsula
http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/5MCSEmap/0601-0700/620-09-02.gif

the 566 one I find the most striking from a point of view of covered countries.

I'm reminded that in this article I saw a remark about the birth of Mohammed http://cura.free.fr/xx/17sepp1.html
the article wrote:
The 247th year of Diocletian, which is mentioned as last year of St. Cyril's cycle, was a "Greatest Year", when on 31 May 531 CE all planets visible to naked-eye including the sun and the moon were in close conjunction. This event was for the Indian astronomer Aryabhata of Kusumpara reason for a calculation and adjustment of the Indian age, called Kali Yuga, which he published in his work called Aryabhatiyam. As B. L. van der Waerden and R. Billard show, Aryabhata used the common multiple of the planetary periods to figure out a similar alignment of all classical planets on 17th Feb. 3102 BCE and established there the start of the Kali Yuga (Waerden, 1968, 1972, 1980). We find the same date later in Persian and Arabic chronologies, such as Abu Mashar's "Book of the Conjunctions", where it is identified as the date of the Deluge. Abu Mashar calculated from there 3671+1 years until the triple alignment of Jupiter and Saturn (571 CE), which he called the conjunction announcing the Arab people (Burckhardt and Waerden, 1968). Interestingly, there is dated also the birth of Mohammad.
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Mark
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Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
as far as I know there is no reliable evidence concerning Muhammad's arrival in Medina. So one has to be careful with this one. But that day marks the start of the Islamic calendar - and this can't be just mere chance.


Yes I agree about caution. However, as you suggest the Islamic calendar is timed from this moment so it has a powerful symbolic importance in the entire Islamic world in much the same way as July 4th 1776 does for American consciousness.

Quote:
Islam is a lunar religion - with a lot of Sat. influence. This clearly is in favour of you chart. Practically all of the present Islamic states have a strong Cancer-Capricorn axis and/or a strong Moon.


I assume this is a pragmatic argument based on study of charts? I must admit I haven't studied many of these dates. However, it seems that just about all the traditional sources-Al Biruni, Picatrix, Ibn Ezra , Abu' Ma'shar assign Venus to Islam.

The Venus connection is stengthened by the fact that the Islamic calendar starts on a Friday- the day of prayer for Muslims. This day has a planetary day ruler of Venus. Saturday is the sabbath of Judaism and comes under the planetary day ruler of Saturn while the Christian sabbath is ruled by the Sun.

There seems to be numerous factors favouring the traditional link between Venus and Islam. According to Steven Birchfield:

Quote:
...there are specific reasons also why Venus was the planet ruling Islam: It was the Dawr ruler (an important chronocrator in mundane astrology) and ruler of the Ascendant of the chart indicating the rise of Islam, the chart of the conjunction indicating shift of the triplicity - Cf The Astrological History of Masha'allah by David Pingree and E.S. Kennedy


Here is a helpful quote I got from one of Steven Birchfield's informative posts:

Quote:
We say that, since Jupiter is by nature an indicator of faith, and the differences of faiths in periods, religions and dynasties are from its mixture... If it (Jupiter) is mixed with Saturn, it indicates that the faith of the people of that religion is Judaism, which is similar to the essence of Saturn, since the <other> planets apply to it, and it does not apply to any planet among them. Similarly, the people of all other faiths confess Judaism, but it does not confess them (their faiths). Most of them will do what is similar to this religion or the like. If the mixer with it is Mars, it indicates the worship of fire and the faith of Mazdaism. If the mixer with it is the Sun, it indicates the worship of the planets, idols, and the marvellous. If the mixer with it is Venus, it indicates revealed religion, and monotheism, like Islam and the like. If the mixture with it is Mercury, it indicates Christianity, and every faith containing antipathy, doubt, and trouble. If the mixer with it is the Moon, it indicates doubts, confusion, ta’fîl, apostasy, and distrust in the faith, and what is because of the quick change of the Moon and its movement, and because of its short stay in each of the signs.
Abu Ma'shar - The Book of Religions and Dynasties: On the Great Conjunctions - Edited and translated by Charles Burnett and Keiji Yamamoto and published by Brill 2000


Clearly, Islamic astrologers like Abu Mashar would not want their religion associated with the Moon! Although we have the paradox of the crescent Moon symbolising Islam. Although its often claimed this was adopted from the Christian Byzantine lands conquered by Islam.

A deeper reason why the Moon might be rejected is that it was often identified with pre-Islamic pagan religions. For example, look at the role of the New Moon in the Babylonian calendar. It had a similar important role in cultures such as India where goddess worship was practised. Looking at Arabian religion it appears the Moon was originally worshipped as a Moon God/Goddesss (Allah/Allat) and the centre of the cult may have been Mecca. Some speculate, that the image of the crescent moon in Islam is actually, a survival of the ancient Moon worshipping origins of Arabian religion. http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-moon-god.htm

I admit I have always been a bit sceptical about this part of traditional astrology. I have my doubts how well a planet can encapsulate the diversity of a whole faith. Its noteable that followers of a particular faith usually assign themselves a benefic! Moreover, the system isn't well set up for the multi-faith world today where Hinduism and Buddhism are major world religions. While respecting the traditional sources I think we are entitled to take a fresh look at how the symbolism fits.


Quote:

Anyway, it pays to have a look at the solar spring ingress of that year - 21/March 622, 8:58 GMT. Sorry, I'm unable to present it here..
You'll find a New Moon there.


Maybe I made a mistake but I timed the ingress chart for Medina for 11:36;48 ( LMT) on March 18/03/622. I will put that chart and correct it later if its wrong.

I am also still really curious what the data is for the chart Steven Birchfield refers to as the chart generally accepted by Islamic astrologers as showing the birth of Islam. Unfortunately, I dont possess a copy of the book Steven references ie The Astrological History of Masha'allah by David Pingree and E.S. Kennedy. Its clear from Steven's comments the chart rising sign is Taurus or Libra.

Regards,

Mark


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Mark
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Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Eddy,

I think the key dates we need to focus on are:

570 or 571 CE -birth of Muhammed (April?)

610 CE- Islamic tradition holds that during one of his visits to Mount Hira, the angel Gabriel appears to Muhammed and starts to convey the Quran to him.

613 CE Muhammed starts to preach publicly.

622 CE-The Hijra-Muhammed and his followers leave Mecca and establish the first Islamic state in Medina.

630 CE Muslims capture Mecca. Ka'ba is cleared of other religious idols. Pilgrimage rites are Islamicized. Tribes of Arabia vow allegiance to Muhammad

632 CE-Muhammad dies about June 8.

Apart from eclipses I have read secondary sources claiming the birth ( or death) of Muhammed were accompanied by the appearance of a comet. However, I have found no corroboration for this. I dont believe there were any prominent comets in these years but I still need to research Gary Kronk's 'Cometography' which collects all reports of comets in history. These claims may well be apocryphal and retrospective. In this period early Christian sources such as Origen and Eusebius were claiming the Star of Bethlehem was a comet. There was a tradition in many cultures that great mens births or deaths had to be accompanied by celestial wonders.
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margherita



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Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But Mohamed was not born under the Saturn-Jupiter conjunction in Scorpio as Martin Luther?


This was something many astrologers noticed, or am I wrong?


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Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But Mohamed was not born under the Saturn-Jupiter conjunction in Scorpio as Martin Luther?

This was something many astrologers noticed, or am I wrong?

margherita


Hello Margherita,

Yes thats right. It coincided with a conjunction according to some sources. Here ia a link to the Astrodatabank piece on Muhammed's birth.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Mohammed

I have copied the discussion there of the various times proposed for his birth time. I can see this is such a complicated subject it really deserves a thread of its own. Strictly, speaking this is a natal issue but when figures have such a dramatic influence on world religion and politics such as Muhammed I feel discussion of their charts has validity as an aspect of mundane astrology.

Quote:
BIOGRAPHY
Arabian founder of Islam. He married at age 23 to Khadiji, a wealthy widow, fifteen years older than he. Only after her death did he become polygamous, with a dozen wives. He heard his call at age 40; writing, teaching and performing miracles.

Larry Ely writes, 12/2002, "We spoke about my using the AstroDatabank to create a discussion community around the birth chart of Muhammad. It would certainly save me time, as otherwise I would have to get on a bunch of list serves and put out the idea there to gather people together.

"But Mark informed me that there is a record on Mohammed in ADB, which I had not seen posted on your website, as it is of too inferior a quality of trustworthiness. He emailed it to me, and I am writing to tell you of a

mistake in it.

"The Ruth Dewey citation is quite garbled, whether by her or by someone who entered it into your database. I have the book she quotes from, same exact citation, publication year, and page, and she has quoted the page, but has taken the liberty of transliterating the dates, and in so doing has gotten the years wrong by plus three years. Here is the correct citation:

_THE ASTROLOGICAL HISTORY OF MASHA'ALLAH, E. S. Kennedy and David Pingree, Harvard University Press,

Cambridge, 1991, p. 127. Quoting page 127:

' Appendix 1, Masha'allah's Date of the Prophet's Birth

This date is recorded in his _Chronology_(footnote) by Biruni as being Monday, the day Khur (11) of the month Dai in the year 41 of Anushirwan at the beginning of the seventh hour with the Sun in "the liver of heaven" and the ascendant in Cancer. 1 Favardin of the 41st year of

Anushirwan according to Masha'allah's calendar was 3 May 571; and therefore 11 Dai, the day of the Prophet's birth, was 7 February 572, which was indeed a Monday. The Sun was then in Aquarius, and would have been setting if Cancer had been in the ascendant. This passage in Biruni confirms our previous assertions regarding the zij used by Masha'allah and its calendar.

[Footnote: Documenta Islamica inedita, ed. J. Fuck (umlaut) (Akademie Verlag, Berlin, 1952, jpp. 95-96.] '

"Furthermore, the ADB entry for Ruth Dewey gives not only the wrong year, but the wrong day, and the wrong time of day. The entry currently reads: "February 9, 575 AD N.S., 3:00 PM". The correct NS date is: February 10, 572. As seen from the citation I quoted above, the year is 572, not 575. Furthermore, if one takes the cited day of February, February 7, which is OS, one needs to add 2 days to get NS for this century. But February 9 NS was not a Monday. February 10 was a Monday.

The Ascendant is Cancer, so the Sun in Aquarius is in the quadrant from MC to Descendant. The Arabs changed their day at sunset, so we do not have to do with the problem of a day change mistake due to thinking the day changed at Noon.

"Now as the time of day, the record says the birth was in the 7th hour. This must mean from sunrise. For 21N27 and 39E49, the coordinates of Mecca, where Mohammed was born, the ST at sunrise was 15:55:26, and the ST at sunset was 3:09:01. Subtracting gives the length of daylight, which is 11:13:35. If we divide this by 12 to the length of each daylight hour, we have 0:56:08. Seven of these daylight hours is 6:32:55. If we add this to the ST of sunrise, we get the ST of birth. This is 22:28:21, but this only gives an Ascendant 18 Gemini. If we take 7:00 hours after sunrise, we get ST 22:55:26, which gives an Ascendant of 22 Gemini. So they must have counted the first hour from 0-1, the second hour from 1-2, and the seventh hour from 7-8. So taking 7:30 and adding this to the ST for sunrise, we have ST 23:25:26, which gives about 1Cn00 Ascendant. I used 2Cn00 as the Ascendant, which corresponds to GMT of 11:30:31, LAT of 1:53:14 PM, and LMT of 2:09:47 PM.

"It is important to get this citation right, as it is one of only two citations we have. The other is the first one you give via Manly Palmer Hall via Rao. You should note in this citation that the Rao, Suryanarian citation comes from Abu Ma'Shar's "THE THOUSANDS OF ABU MA'SHAR," The Warburg Institute, University of London, London, 1968, p. 116, in which the Ascendant is given as 20 degrees Capricorn.

"A more recent citation, a rectification from the Abu Ma'Shar reference is Ken Gillman, Considerations, XVII (2002), No. 3, p. 64. He gives Ascendant 25Cp06. Time given is 0:25:45 AM LMT of April 20 OS (21:46:29

GMT on April 19 OS in Greenwich).

"I just saw another probable typo in the current record you have for him. For Councel in AA 12/1946 you state "596 and 571 are sometimes proposed". That should read "569", not "596". The years 570 and 571 are the most commonly cited, hence 596 must be a typo for 569. Some authors give a spread from 569 to 572."

Source Notes
Manly Hall in the NAJ 1933 states "recorded" at April 20, 571 AD O.S., 1:25:35 AM LMT. Rao gives the same data as "reproduced from the writings of Professor B. Suryanarian."

Ruth Dewey gives February 9, 575 AD N.S., 3:00 PM from "The Astrological History of Masha'Allah," translated by Kennedy and Pingree, Harvard University Press, 1971, p.127, "Date recorded by Biruni as being Monday, the Khur (eleventh) of the month Dai in the year 41 of Anushirwaf. At the beginning of the 7th hour, with the Sun in the liver of heaven and the ASC in Cancer. Pavardin of the 41st year of Anushirwaf according to the calendar was May 3, 574 AD, and therefore the day was February 7, 575, which was indeed a Monday. this date is from Arabic astrology in the 8th century."

Davison in AQ 7/1960 mentions June 22, dawn.

Modern Astrology 5/1932 states that he was born "about 571 AD, died June 8, 632 AD and noted that Jupiter was conjunct Saturn early September 571.

Councel in AA 12/1946 states "596 and 571 are sometimes proposed; spec april 3, 570 AD O.S."

Granite quotes Fagan in an AFA excerpt for August 20, 570 AD.

Americana encyclopedia states, "Date not certain, somewhere between 570 and 571."

D.S. Willis in MH 10/1980 gives the origin of the Islamic religion as July 15, 622 AD. Ken Eardley writes in May 2004 that he has data from De Boulainvilliers giving April 20 OS at 1:52 AM LMT and other sources give January 30, 570 and February 9, 575 NS.

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margherita



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Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a date from Burnett translation of Albumasar' on great conjunctions. I copy as written:
Religion: 19th march 571 Asc. Libra, dawr Gemini, qisma (what is?) 20 Pisces.
I don't see any chart at the moment, now I should go out, no time to search more.
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Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Masha'Allah /Al Biruni

THE ASTROLOGICAL HISTORY OF MASHA'ALLAH, E. S. Kennedy and David Pingree, Harvard University Press,

Cambridge, 1991, p. 127. Quoting page 127: ' Appendix 1, Masha'allah's Date of the Prophet's Birth

This date is recorded in his _Chronology_(footnote) by Biruni as being Monday, the day Khur (11) of the month Dai in the year 41 of Anushirwan at the beginning of the seventh hour with the Sun in "the liver of heaven" and the ascendant in Cancer. 1 Favardin of the 41st year of Anushirwan according to Masha'allah's calendar was 3 May 571; and therefore 11 Dai, the day of the Prophet's birth, was 7 February 572, which was indeed a Monday. The Sun was then in Aquarius, and would have been setting if Cancer had been in the ascendant. This passage in Biruni confirms our previous assertions regarding the zij used by Masha'allah and its calendar.

Abu Ma'shar.
Abu Ma'Shar's "THE THOUSANDS OF ABU MA'SHAR," The Warburg Institute, University of London, London, 1968, p. 116, in which the Ascendant is given as 20 degrees Capricorn.

"A more recent citation, a rectification from the Abu Ma'Shar reference is Ken Gillman, Considerations, XVII (2002), No. 3, p. 64. He gives Ascendant 25Cp06. Time given is 0:25:45 AM LMT of April 20 OS (21:46:29)
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Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave a further look to Albumasar- it's a messy book.
March 571 should be ingress following the great conjunction in Scorpio and preceding Mohamed birth .

I believe this is the one Albumasar uses for the Islamic religion:



Notice that the Sun is at 0°1' Aries, anyway we should see original charts, if they are in the original version- it's not easy to read that book, we really need Steven Birchfield.

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Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I gave a further look to Albumasar- it's a messy book.
March 571 should be ingress following the great conjunction in Scorpio and preceding Mohamed birth . I believe this is the one Albumasar uses for the Islamic religion.


Thanks Margherita,

The Libra rising is consistent with what Steven Birchfield stated about a foundation chart for the origin of Islam. Although I haven't seen an ingress chart for a nativity before. It seems odd to date the chart from 571 CE. The procedure is to time the ingress chart before Muhammed was born. Other dates seem more logical such as Muhammed 's first public preaching of Islam in 613CE , the founding of the first Islamic state in Medina in 622 or the capture of Mecca in 630.

I am confused by the reference to The Thousands of Abu' Mashar's in Astrodatabank though as it seems to be based on a natal chart for April? Could anyone with a copy of this check it out?

Then there is the Al Biruni /Masha'Allah references suggested Muhammed was born in February with an Aquarian sun. Confused

From searching the web most Islamic sources seem to suggest the Prophet Muhammed's date of birth was the 12th day of Rabi-ul- Awwal [the third month of the Muslim Calendar] which was Monday 20th April, 570 CE in Mecca, Arabia. Actually, there seems to be more consensus on this date than the year as some sources date his birth to the year 570CE!

Quote:
we really need Steven Birchfield.


Never a truer word said! He not only has a detailed knowledge of the primary astrological sources but a good understanding of Islam. I think I am going step back from this complicated subject as I lack the knowledge to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Mark
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Estebon_Duarte



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Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Ibn Ezra's The Book of The World (you can read more about it here- http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2870) there are a few references to planetary attributions for both Islam and the Arabs.

Taken from 'Olam I (Sela pg.95)
Quote:
I have also verified many times by experience that the Sun gives an indication about the Christians, Saturn about the Philistines, Mars about the Arabs, Venus about the Muslims.


In the second version 'Olam II (Sela, pg.165);
Quote:
The conjunction (of Saturn and Jupiter ) that took place before the emergence of the Muslims' prophet, according to their opinion, occurred in the sign of Scorpio.


the accompanying notes have this to say (Sela, pg.207);
Quote:
Ibn Ezra offers more details about this conjunction in Te'amim I....("of the nations, (Venus is in charge of ) those who <follow> the Muslim law, because their sign is Scorpio in the term of Venus, and it [i.e. Venus] was there when the conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter took place"). For the conjunction and the corresponding horoscope indicating the religion of Islam, see On Great Conjunctions, 200 I, 8.2:4, pp.493-496; Astrological History of Masha'allah, 1971, pp.48-50


I'll look around for more sources. I know there was some discussion of this on the Mundane Mailing list that Mr. Birchfield is a moderator of.
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Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Estebon,

Thanks very much for the information. I dont think there is much doubt we are looking at Venus traditionally!

That was clear from the quotes I already used from Steven Birchfield. Its also repeated I understand in other sources such as the Picatrix. There has been quite a lot of discussion on various threads on skyscript of the traditional planets and religion before. Here is an old thread from the mundane forum that Steven Birchfield participated in with some extremely useful quotes.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3247

Over on the Science & Philosophy forum there is this thread which started modern but has developed more traditional in tone:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5205

I dont want to sound disparaging of the work of people like Lunlumo who has reached a different conclusion from empirical research. I am iconaclastic and heretical enough to entertain the notion that the traditional sources may not be right about everything. Shocked

I would personally like to progress on the charts for Islam generally or the natal chart for Muhammed. Hopefullly, Steven Birchfield will return to us in better health and share his thoughts at some point.

Incidentally. I have just ordered my own copy of Ibn Ezra's The Book of The World. Very Happy

Mark
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Maxz



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Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eddy wrote:
Maybe the birth of the founder Mohammed is also of significance.


While I agree the birth would be of signifance, I don't know of one Muslim who would agree and label the Prophet Mohammed as the "founder" of Islam. The founder would be God - as it is believed he did not create the religion, but was a "Messenger". Actually to say he created the religion would be very disrespectful. I'm sure you know this but perhaps mis-stated.

The following verse from Quran proves the point ....

Quote:
We(Allah) have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.
( Quran,An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #163)
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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you its important to remind members that Islam is not perceived by its followers as 'Muhammedism' as some of the older less informed books suggested. In Islamic belief Muhammed is the last in a succession of prophets/messengers chosen by Allah. However, non-Muslims are fully entitled to not share this perspective. To suggest otherwise is to imply we must all adopt an Islamic view of life and/or history.

Mark
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‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
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