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margherita wrote:
MarkC wrote:Hello Vindex/Cor Scorpii

Here is the chart for others to look at.
Well done, Mark.

No time to look at the chart, now- dinner time. Tomorrow I will try to say more.

Just I want to highlight the fact Mars is in its HELIACAL RISING (it's visible since the 1st October).

It's a very, very strong Mars,

margherita
What ie Heliacal rising if you can explain ? How to determine it ? I am not so professional as you are , but I think his Mars is peregrine, his dispositor goes to sign where Mars is higly debilitated, he has no aspects, and his Mars is on the last degree of sign. So that s the reason why I put his chart.

One more thing I see that his MC is near the star of Algorab. I was checking before some charts from Soviet leaders and even Nazi and i conclued that lot of them had something on Algorab.
As long as you remember me I ll never be too far

38
What ie Heliacal rising if you can explain ? How to determine it ? I am not so professional as you are , but I think his Mars is peregrine, his dispositor goes to sign where Mars is higly debilitated, he has no aspects, and his Mars is on the last degree of sign. So that s the reason why I put his chart.

One more thing I see that his MC is near the star of Algorab. I was checking before some charts from Soviet leaders and even Nazi and i conclued that lot of them had something on Algorab.
Hello Vindex,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliacal_rising

Heliacal risings occur after a planet or star has been rising and setting with the Sun and it is just returning to visibility. There is one morning, just before dawn, when a star or planet suddenly reappears after its absence.

When stars or planets are close to the sun they disappear from view in the night sky because they are rising and setting with the sun. A planet or star heliacaly rises when it has separated enough from the sun to be visible again in the morning sky. In ancient astrology a star or planet appearing again in eastern horizon before the Sun was regarded as almost a rebirth after the 'death' of combustion with the sun. While being under the 'Sun's beams' was a great debility being free of this and visible again was seen as a very empowering time for a star or planet. In ancient Egypt for example the agricultural calendar was focused on the heliacal rising of the star Sirius. When the Egyptians saw Sirius reappear in the morning sky ( helically rising) before the Sun they knew it would soon be time for the flooding - inundation - of the Nile River, around which, all Egyptian life was woven.

As for calculating when planets or stars are helicaly rising you normally need astronomical software. I am not aware of any astrological software that does this for planets although Bernadette Brady's 'Starlight' calculates heliacal rising stars.

According to Ptolemy this Mars is in its own bound (terms) so is not peregrine. However, under the Egyptian terms Mars is under the bound (term) of Saturn and therefore peregrine. I assume you work with Egyptian terms.

Interesting what you say about Algorab. In the constellation of Corvus the Crow, it was of the nature of Mars and Saturn according to Ptolemy. To the Babylonians this constellation was connected to death and carrying people to the underworld. This star was on the ascendant of the first Twin Towers attack in 2001. Im interested, what Nazi and Soviet leaders did you find had this star prominently?

Thanks

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

39
Vindex wrote: What ie Heliacal rising if you can explain ? How to determine it ? I am not so professional as you are ,
I'm not professional at all....just a student.

The heliacal rising is when a planet which was hidden by the Sun light becomes visible, going out from the Sun ray

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliacal_rising

It's very important from an astrological point of view, in Hellenistic astrology, in Medieval astrology, but especially in Ptolemy and obviously his commentators. For example doryphory is taken according the phase or the temperament - see William Lilly table of planetary nature.

As mentioned in another thread in CieloeTerra they recommend a free software called PLSV

http://www.alcyone.de/planetary_lunar_a ... ility.html

but both Rumen Kolev and Curtis Manwaring in their commercial software include a tool for it.

Anyway as a member of Cieloeterra I use PLSV (I changed a little parameters anyway )

but I think his Mars is peregrine, his dispositor goes to sign where Mars is higly debilitated, he has no aspects, and his Mars is on the last degree of sign. So that s the reason why I put his chart.
Mars is peregrine in a cadent house and against its hairesis, true. I noticed this.
But when I saw that Mars for me was quite obvious even before checking it was very strong for phase. Obviously here at least is the significator of profession because of its phase to the Sun.

I did not check the rest, if significator of manners, or temperament; for me a planet which is at 29th degree of sign is not enough to say it is weak.

Anyway from the general biography I have my idea of the story....
One more thing I see that his MC is near the star of Algorab. I was checking before some charts from Soviet leaders and even Nazi and i conclued that lot of them had something on Algorab.
Interesting. At the moment I'm working to put down a research I did with other people about a famous surgeon who works in war fields, like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bosnia, Somalia; he is exactly the opposite type of the general you mention :) and he has the same Algorab, the Corvus star culminating at MC.
This is a Mars-Saturn star, anyway.

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

40
Hello Margherita,
As mentioned in another thread in CieloeTerra they recommend a free software called PLSV. http://www.alcyone.de/planetary_lunar_a ... ility.html

but both Rumen Kolev and Curtis Manwaring in their commercial software include a tool for it.
Thanks. I actually went to the trouble of buying Starry Night and found it didn't work on my new laptop. :( I downloaded the alcyone software above.

Maybe I am not using it correctly but it only seems to give quite approximate ideas of when a star or planet is helically rising or going into cosmical setting. I am not sure you can be definite what date Mars heliacally rose using this software. However, it had undeniably gone into its oriental phase and was recently visible. That would certainly add to its power in the horoscope.
Mars is peregrine
I thought you followed Ptolemy? Its in its own term (bound) no?
Interesting. At the moment I'm working to put down a research I did with other people about a famous surgeon who works in war fields, like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bosnia, Somalia; he is exactly the opposite type of the general you mention and he has the same Algorab, the Corvus star culminating at MC. This is a Mars-Saturn star, anyway.
I know you follow CieloeTerra on fixed stars which advocates only using the technique of in mundo positions for stars. However, I often find zodiacal projection still works. Moreover, it was used by all astrologers throughout the tradition from the ancient Greeks to 17th century. I have the software to plot in mundo stars. However, its sometimes not as revealing as the zodiacal projection technique for star close to the ecliptic in my experience. Of course I still check out in mundo star positions too.

We a had a long discussion on this thread before you joined in about how one cannot base a whole delineation on just one factor. We were discussing planets in late in degrees but it applies to fixed stars too. You simply cannot determine if a person will be 'evil' or violent from just one fixed star. Many might say say you cannot even get that from the full horoscope!

However, the star may bring up a theme that may be relevant in an overall delineation. I have so far found this star to be linked to themes around death and the underworld. The example of the surgeon you gave working in war zones is an example of someone working in that kind of environment in a very positive way. However, the Mars-Saturn symbolism and issues of death are still there. Another example would be a writer. Remember our recent Mystery chart on the Traditional forum? This was HP Lovecraft the horror/supernatural writer. He had Algorab exactly on the ascendant. I think we need to get away from over literalist or reductionist thinking.

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

42
Vindex wrote:
My book will be soon published. On my experince Satan started his fall directly on Algorab , at that time 13,23 Libra.
:shock: :???: :-?
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

43
Yes, that's a bit of a nonsense comment. Vindex can you explain what you mean or suggest that I delete the remark? Keep the discussion relevant to the opening post, and try to make sure that astrological assertions are explained by reasoning that makes sense to the other astrologers.

44
We a had a long discussion on this thread before you joined in about how one cannot base a whole delineation on just one factor. We were discussing planets in late in degrees but it applies to fixed stars too. You simply cannot determine if a person will be 'evil' or violent from just one fixed star. Many might say say you cannot even get that from the full horoscope!

Well in that case astrology is loosing of time. Even traditional one.

I am so sad when I see that some of astrologers are interpreting chart with the indefinite power of free will :(
As long as you remember me I ll never be too far

45
Deb wrote:Yes, that's a bit of a nonsense comment. Vindex can you explain what you mean or suggest that I delete the remark? Keep the discussion relevant to the opening post, and try to make sure that astrological assertions are explained by reasoning that makes sense to the other astrologers.
Nonsense comment.....??????????

No. I studied about 150 chart from leading soviet and nazi generals they all had Algorab included. The best example can be Himmler - Sun 13,06 Libra - moment position of Algorab. Leading soviet general in early stages of Stalin government - Tuha?evski Sun and Moon on 14 Libra. They are lot of examples where one fixed stars become so important that she dominated above all other factors in chart.

Satan fall to earth, as you know to all religious texts. I thinkt that "burned road" abouth who Ptolemie wrote first - from 9 Libra do 14 Scorpio can symbolically represent the road where Satan took his fall to the Earth.

I don t know why you should humiliete me and said I am nonsense ? I can explain some things which are unfamiliar to you.

So , if you take all nazi and soviet generals and important persons you ll see that most of them (85 percent) the most important planets between 9 Libra and 14 Scorpio.

We took Algorab here as example.

I still can t understand why i represent my self so ------ confusing ?
As long as you remember me I ll never be too far

46
I am so sad when I see that some of astrologers are interpreting chart with the indefinite power of free will.
Well live and let live I say. I think its more important to constantly work on improving our own astrological understanding than worry about what others are getting up too. As a matter of fact I dont personally, hold to the absolute free will view at all. However, that seems a topic more suited to the philosophy bit of the forum. Personally, I would prefer to discuss the natal chart data you offered us. :'

regards

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

47
I'm sad too Vindex, because we don't seem to be able to get over your problem of not only denying freedom of will, but also freedom of expression, so that other astrologers are able to talk about traditional and modern beliefs and techniques in this forum if they wish. And your earlier comment was utter nonsense because you didn't explain it, or take the opportunity to explain it in your response to Mark.

You've had warnings and private requests so I think we are fated to have ongoing problems; hence I'm closing your account.

Deb
Last edited by Deb on Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

48
MarkC wrote:
Thanks. I actually went to the trouble of buying Starry Night and found it didn't work on my new laptop. :( I downloaded the alcyone software above.
Windows 7? I'm very happy with XP in fact....

Code: Select all

Maybe I am not using it correctly but it only seems to give quite approximate ideas of when a star or planet is helically rising or going into cosmical setting. I am not sure you can be definite what date Mars heliacally rose using this software. However, it had undeniably gone into its oriental phase and was recently visible. That would certainly add to its power in the horoscope. 
No, it says the date.
You should go "SETTINGS" and then "SHOW DATE OF VISIBILITY PHENOMENA" according the place.


Anyway i've changed the parameters of arcus visionis as Emanuele told me- thanks so much, he read us- and then according Paulus Alexandrinus influence of heliacal phases is lasting in the following and preceding days.
I thought you followed Ptolemy? Its in its own term (bound) no?
I use the Egyptian terms, but to be honest I did not check :(


I know you follow CieloeTerra on fixed stars which advocates only using the technique of in mundo positions for stars. However, I often find zodiacal projection still works. Moreover, it was used by all astrologers throughout the tradition from the ancient Greeks to 17th century. I have the software to plot in mundo stars. However, its sometimes not as revealing as the zodiacal projection technique for star close to the ecliptic in my experience. Of course I still check out in mundo star positions too.
I mostly consider stars at the angles, anyway what traditional astrologers said about fixed stars is not so clear for me: they use a so large orb that what they meant it's occult for me.

We a had a long discussion on this thread before you joined in about how one cannot base a whole delineation on just one factor. We were discussing planets in late in degrees but it applies to fixed stars too. You simply cannot determine if a person will be 'evil' or violent from just one fixed star. Many might say say you cannot even get that from the full horoscope!
I agree.

However, the star may bring up a theme that may be relevant in an overall delineation. I have so far found this star to be linked to themes around death and the underworld. The example of the surgeon you gave working in war zones is an example of someone working in that kind of environment in a very positive way.
It's a strange coincidence. Two men very different, like the day and the night. A general on trial for war crimes- anyway I don't know anything about this general, just what it is written in this thread- and a man who fights war helping the victims, whatever side and religion they are.

This was HP Lovecraft the horror/supernatural writer. He had Algorab exactly on the ascendant. I think we need to get away from over literalist or reductionist thinking.
Corvus is very proper for Lovecraft....

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com