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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Mars joys in Sixth house but why
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~Kent~



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 36
Location: Los Angeles, California

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using Churchill as an example his Mars is below the horizon in a nocturnal chart.
Is that is what you mean by correct sect?
And it is oriental, rising before the Sun but not immediately before Sun.
(In more contemporary astrology only the planet rising immediately before the Sun is called oriental.)
But rather than confined to a cadent house, his Mars is angular in the most powerful house of all, the 1st.
By your description we have a mixed bag.
I do get the sense that Churchill has a profound temper and that he was often “grumpy, feisty and itching to cause some trouble.”
And considering his role in 20th Century world history I think that was a very good thing.
He was the only awake person while England slept.


Last edited by ~Kent~ on Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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~Kent~



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
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Location: Los Angeles, California

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howard Sayer

The book you recommended by Anthony Storr on Churchill, Newton and Kafka looks great. $90 new, $60 used! But I need to find a good bio of Churchill. He's like a titan. We don't have his likes too much these days. He could be so WRONG too. Said he didn't want to preside over the downfall of the Empire and probably hated Gandhi. He is like a Shakespearean character with great, admirable strengths and great foibles.
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sixth house is the house of armies. Mars seems a natural to be in his joy there.
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1380

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was focusing on possible reasons why Mars was assigned its joy in the 6th house in all charts and didn't particularly care to join the discussion on Churchill's chart.


Quote:
Using Churchill as an example his Mars is below the horizon in a nocturnal chart.
Is that is what you mean by correct sect?


The sect of the chart is the major consideration. The Sun is beneath the horizon so the chart is nocturnal. Mars, a nocturnal planet, is best in a nocturnal chart. The second consideration, not quite as important, is the sect placement of the planets in relationship to the Sun. The chart is nocturnal because the Sun is beneath the horizon, but Mars is diurnally placed because it's in the same hemisphere as the Sun. To be even better in a nocturnal chart Mars should be above the horizon – not in the same hemisphere as the Sun.

Churchill's Mars is very favorably placed in its planetary cycle in relation to the Sun: It's oriental in an applying sextile. An applying occidental sextile with Mars in Aquarius wouldn't be as favorable for Mars' strength and ability to act (it would still be OK, though). As a nocturnal planet in a nocturnal chart Mars is less problematic than it would be in a diurnal chart. But Mars is in detriment in Libra – so yes, it does all sort of wash out into a mixed bag. I'm still unsure of how to combine the various factors. Working on it . . . slowly.
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mars in the 6th has also long been said to indicate the potential of being a good surgeon. You know – slicing folks open . . . It's s-o-o Mars.
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HOWARD B SAYER



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

~Kent~ wrote:
Howard Sayer

The book you recommended by Anthony Storr on Churchill, Newton and Kafka looks great. $90 new, $60 used!



You should be able to find it easy enough in a second hand bookshop for a few quid.
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're bouncing all over the place here. Confused Don't forget about private messages.
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The alchemist



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
The sixth house is the house of armies. Mars seems a natural to be in his joy there.


Is it the sixth or the eleventh?
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Tom
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is it the sixth or the eleventh?



Sixth.

""Public Employees and services, such as the civil service, the armed forces, the police when they serve the people.." The Houses: Temples of the Sky p.75

"The work that is symbolized by the 6th is performed out of need." Ibid p 57"

The 11th would be resources of the king and one would be tempted to put armed forces there for that reason, but the armed forces are also servants (6th house) of the nation (1st house).

Tom
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The alchemist



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It makes sense. Lilly uses the 11th, I think. It would be interesting to examine different charts to see how this works out.
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It makes sense. Lilly uses the 11th, I think. It would be interesting to examine different charts to see how this works out.


It would also be interesting to actually check what some traditional texts say on this. I had always taken armed forces to be the 11th house. Maybe that was just careless myopia on my part. Deb always does her homework before stating such things so the 6th must have textual support. Its also not like Deb to go against Lilly that often so I would assume he went for the 6th too. Confused

I have also seen someone arguing for the 2nd house for armed forces. The logic being that this is part of the resources at the disposal of the country.
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alchemist was correct in his/her assumption that Lilly assigns armed forces to the 11th house.

Quote:
It doth naturally represent Friends and Friendship, Hope, Trust, Confidence, the Praise, or Dispraise of anyone; the Fidelity or falsenesse of Friends; as to Kings it personates their Favourites, Councellours, Servants, their Associates or Allyes, their Money, Exchequer or Treasure; in Warre their Ammunition and Souldiery; it represents Courtiers, &c. in a Common-wealth governed by a few of the Nobles and Commons, it personates their assistance in Councell: as in London the tenth House represents the Lord Major; the eleventh the Common-councell; the Ascendant the generality of the Commoners of the said City.
Christian Astrology, p56

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juliana_angelova



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Mars joys in Sixth house but why Reply with quote

~Kent~ wrote:
Why does traditional astrology consider Mars to joy in the Sixth house?

Hi Kent,

John Frawley answers your question in his book "The Real Astrology", in the chapter about the houses and what planets joy in them - and why. He says:

The sixth is the apparently random unpleasantness and nastiness of others and the world. Mars is the sword which we may take up to fight against it, and thus provide the will to do good. Mars can be either the disease, or the surgical intervention that rids us of the disease ... The choice is ours. Whichever planet it is, if it is in its joy, we are most easily able to avail ourselves of its working at its best.

Hope this helps. I like the above explanation - it is my favourite.

Leery

Yuliana
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~Kent~



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 36
Location: Los Angeles, California

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am so glad to see you here Yuliana! Very Happy
And I'm on my way to get John Frawley's book.
Beyond scoring or ranking a planet numerically
he gives me a sense of the symbolic meaning of Mars in Sixth and how it might show up in somebody's life.
Thank you and welcome.
Thank you to all on this thread.
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