I have a similar chart....

13
I have a similar chart, and have also had a lot of problems developing close personal relationships. I am not one in currently, although I am a decade or more younger than the subject. The longest one I have been in was three years. I do tend to alternate between hope against hope and ?XXXX it, this isn?t going to happen?next lifetime, maybe??

Like the subject, I have a Virgo Ascendent at 14 degrees, a 7th house Chiron and an 8th House Saturn (a nasty combination that makes intimate relationships difficult), a 1st House Pluto and Uranus (in a man, this can show a tendency to dominate (Pluto) and anger management issues (Uranus), and a 3rd House Neptune (a placement which makes it difficult to develop casual relationships, so that intimate relationships never develop).

It?s a difficult chart?and I can?t explain why some people end up with crappy horoscopes. For those proficient in Vedic astrology, the subject is past his Ketu maturation at age 48, which takes some pressure off the 3rd House. He needs to make an effort now?there isn?t as much holding him back astrologically?
All I know is that if my birth chart was a horary, the answer would be "No".

My Blog: http://slushpileastrology.blogspot.com/

14
I'll do my best with a modern interpretation. I note that the Astrodienst default charts use very wide orbs--I'll ignore a few on the horoscope that I think are too wide.

With Pisces on the cusp of the 7th house of marriage/long-term relationships, I would use Neptune as the modern ruler of the sign on the cusp. Although Neptune in the 3rd house makes some nice aspects, it does square Venus in the 12th house. 12th house planets indicate energies that are hard for us to perceive about ourselves, although they may be very visible to those around us. So I would read this aspect as unrealistic (Neptune) thinking (3rd) about women (Venus) in ways that are hard for him to understand about himself (12th).

If we look at Neptune square moon, and the psychological claptrap (eh, traditionalists?) that a boy's first and most precedent-setting relationship with a woman is with Mom, I think he was on good terms with her (with that trine to his sun) but that some Neptunian disillusionment is here, also. (Juliana, good read on the moon! But I note that the moon is so late in Aquarius that if his birth time is slightly off, it could be in Pisces.)

With Venus closely sextile Mars, this man has a sex drive (!), but with Pluto/Uranus sitting on their midpoint in a house indicating his body and outward personality, he may experience a lot of disruption and even shame in their expression. Uranus/Pluto in the first house suggest someone who looks both unusual and intense, and this can put people off.

Also, if we accept Pluto as opposite the DC, this could cause all kinds of turmoil in his efforts to generate a long-term relationship.

I think I've located his birth date in an ephemeris, which would put Black Moon Lilith in Aries in the 8th house in an exact opposition to his Mars. She is a real spoiler of the zodiac. Kind of like Saturn with Attitude. Sexuality is one reading of the 8th house. This makes me wonder about "bedroom" issues with this man. BML trines Venus in Leo, so he may be attracted to pretty women who are put off by him.

With sun square Saturn from the 8th, I would look for problems with self-confidence. Some plain ol' sun-sign astrology suggests that an afflicted sun in Cancer is likely to make the man retreat inside his shell when he feels insecure about himself. Hence loneliness. With sun semi-square Venus and sesqui-square Mars and his 8th house ruled by Mars, this gets us back into the Mars loop; with thwarted efforts to express his masculinity.

Also, I think Chiron does show us "where it hurts." Chiron is in the 7th house of marriage/permanent relationships. It is out-of-sign but I would count Chiron as squaring his sun, making him feel that his ego just takes too much of a beating when he tries to get a long-term relationship.

I can't honestly say I would have picked this horoscope out of a dozen anonymous charts as being as you've described, but I have suggested post-hoc some placements that might explain what you have observed.
Last edited by waybread on Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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cor scorpii wrote:
Forgive, but how is Pisces a sign of disapointment in relationships when it is the 7th sign
This kind of oversimplified interpretation must come from the teachings of "modern astrology".... according to them, Pisces are ruled by Neptune so the partners always tend to slip through your fingers, are unreliable and "weak", prone to alcohol and/or drugs, need constant strong guidance or else they lose themselves in the rough realities of this world, 'romantic' souls which tend to see the world through pink lenses,dreamers searching for someone to rescue and save or dreaming of being rescued and saved by a 'soul-mate', hard to stabilize, 'artistic', often unreachable and unable to commit, 'sensitive', etc, etc. all leading to disappointment.

That
is precisely why I turned to good old tradition and sound astrology it represents :D

Goran
Willelm Wulff used Neptune and seemed to be right. Ray Murphy found Neptune rising in the largest percentage of astrologers as well as quarius Sun.

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Hopefully Juliana will respond to say what she meant about Pisces on the cusp of the 7th. I think very highly of her work and generosity of spirit. We both participate in another astrology forum and the "natives" there appreciate her chart readings.

To me, the interpretation of the sign on the 7th house cusp boils down to the condition of the accidental house cusp ruler, which in this example (Pisces) and in modern astrology would be Neptune. It is the modern ruler of alcohol and in a general (not specific) sense of problem drugs. Neptune has two key meanings. (1) It is not an every-day reality-based planet. Now you see it, now you don't. It represents beautiful illusions and bitter disillusionment. (2) At its core, Neptune shows a longing to merge with something greater than oneself and one's ordinary material reality, such as the divine. This requires an erasure of one's sense of unique identity and a distancing of oneself from mundane existance. A well-positioned Neptune can promote a healthy sense of spirituality or artistic creativity. With a "challenged" Neptune the person may seek ego erasure through alcohol or drugs.

Obviously if a person has a mix of favourable and unfavourable aspects to Neptune (and/or the DC in this example), you have to do a kind of bicycle tour around the chart to collect more information about its plausible expression.

18
jennvt

Is this the chart of someone who knows that you're examining it?

Really wouldn't be comfortable interpreting someone's chart who isn't even aware that someone has been looking at it. Not sure if its a policy of the forum that people can only post up charts of those who are aware that their chart is being examined by the original poster. Otherwise it would just be snooping.

That said, a couple of more generic things which dont' just apply to this person. Not sure if you're "allowed" use modern techniques on this forum, I know some people are skeptical of them, others outright critical of them. However someone posted something like pisces on the descendant indicates disappointing relationships and then it was suggested that this must be the muddy thinking of modern astrology. Actually, I've never heard this idea before in any modern astrology book I've ever read. I can only assume it was a misunderstanding by the poster or it was their own idea/theory.
Personally I use modern techniques looking at natal charts as well as classical. I do have a problem with the sign = planet = house approach that you sometimes see with modern astrology though.

I'll interpret the chart myself if the OP says that the person whose chart it is is aware of it, but just on a general sense, I have a few problems with some of the comments here so I'm not sure my interpretation would be welcomed tbh. There seems a lot of 'sign' focus. Pisces on the descendant indicates disappointing relationships, moon in aquarius sabotage their relationships etc. I disagree with anyone who even says that this is what modern astrology says either because I've not read this anywhere, but if I'm wrong then I'd like to read what author suggested these things.

Personally I do use modern astrological methods when looking at a natal chart. For me the aspects between Moon, Venus and Neptune are the most telling. Not what sign is on the descendant. If Pisces descendant indicating disappointing relationships, then that means that Virgo risings suffer disappointing relatinoships. Not really following that logic.

If anything I think the Moon-Venus-Neptune TSquare is the thing to examine and I'd be asking questions about the relationship with the mother. Neptune isn't just about being drunk, writing poety and losing things. Neptune adds 'illusion' and 'glamour' to what it touches and in my view this is a t-square which suggests an eroticising of the feminine, possibly due to a relationship with the mother, but to a point that is unattainable for real every day ACTUAL women. This is a placement which I feel may well 'air brush' an ideal of what women should be, but of course real women seldom can be expected to live up to these illusary ideals. The lack of air in the chart might similarly indicate a lack of perspective here.
I think looking at things like that would be more useful than examining sign placements which are, after all, true for 1/12th of the population.

(not meaning to be harsh here, just throwing it out there as my personal opinion)

19
Jennvt,

There seems to be a dual, contradictory pull in this gentleman?s nature between the strongly mental-intellectual on the one hand and the emotional on the other. With Virgo upon the Ascendant and Uranus therein with a sextile aspect to the Lord of the Ascendant, there is little doubt that he is endowed with a sharp, swift, unconventional and powerfully inventive intellect. And I think it will be quite impossible for him to let any impulse escape without its being subjected to a critical, objective, intellectual scrutiny. I believe it is this combination of Mercury, Uranus and Neptune (Trine with Mercury) which will inform most experiences of his life, even those that are supposed to touch the emotions. I therefore think that his views and expectations so far as love is concerned are likely to be rather odd, and I think most women will find it quite taxing to spend a simple, romantic, relaxing evening with him because they will be expected to constantly live up to certain lofty, perhaps unrealistic ideals which this gentleman has of ?the woman whom he?d be in love with or who?d be in love with him?. I also feel that with Mars in the II House in square with Mercury, this gentleman can often be quite scathing in the way he uses language and, whether intentionally or unknowingly, is bound to hurt others through his words.

With the Lord of the Ascendant retrograde and peregrine in Cancer, as also the Sun in Cancer, this gentleman possesses a phenomenal memory. But as I have often experienced, an exceptional memory in itself can be a curse, for it shows an inability to let go of the past, an impossibility of forgetting anything. And this gives rise to an often futile and unprofitable comparison and assessment of the present with the past ? whether real or imaginary ? leading to eventual disappointment in or disparaging of the value or worth of the present, of that which one has, which one possesses.

I somehow feel that the curiously constructed nature of this gentleman is made more for friendship than for love. And I also feel that somewhere at the deepest core of his being there is something still unresolved, unconfronted, unarticulated about his experience and expression of sexuality and it affects the way in which he conducts his relationships with women and the expectations he brings to them.

Among other things, it is worth noticing:

The Lord of the Ascendant and the Lord of the VII are both in the XI House.
The Lord of the VII is also Lord of the IV.
Jupiter, Mercury and the Sun as rulers of the Parents possibly speak of a rather distinguished pedigree. And I think his memory and ideals of his parents from his childhood days have an important bearing upon his relationships as an adult.
As general significators in matters of love, the Moon cadent, Venus cadent.
The Moon in an Airy sign, Venus in a Fiery sign.
Three planets in Watery signs, three in Fiery signs.
The Moon in the House of Saturn; Saturn in his Fall in the VIII.
Mutable signs on Angles.

Best wishes.

20
Paul, you've given some good advice.

My personal rule for reading on-line astrology forum horoscopes is that: (1) for someone who is not a public figure, either the data have to be anonymous, or s/he has to give permission. (2) If someone expressly does not want his/her chart read, I won't do it. (3) I won't participate on a thread where the OP says, "Show me exactly why this miserable excuse for a human being is so wretched," unless it is to call the poster to task. (4) Public figures/celebrities are fair game. (5) I try not to forget the privilege of looking at someone's chart. In a way, I think it does show what a soul is on earth to accomplish, with both its tool-kit and barriers.

I think signs are overdone and over-simplified in many modern astrology cookbooks; perhaps because planets in signs are relatively easy to locate. To me a sign says "how" or "in what manner" a planet operates; kind of like an adverb or adjective in a sentence. So it acts as a qualifier, not as a static set of character traits. I don't find Pisces on the 7th house cusp as interesting as determining what is happening with Neptune as the modern accidental house cusp ruler.

Are you familiar with Jodie Forrest's book, The Ascendant? It is the best (modern) book I've found on this topic, because it incorporates the AC/DC axis in a very wise and funny way. It really gets away from matching the rising sign with outward physicial characteristics--the kind of popular book that ignores genetics.

If we start with the AC part of that axis, we might say that Virgo rising does have meaning for the individual's embodiment and outward personality. The AC is a major "me" part of the horoscope: what the native identifies with. Leaving any 7th house planets out of it for the moment, the DC becomes the "other"--the "not me" or a "less me" point.

If we think of Virgo's quest for perfection and being helpful to people, then the opposite sign represents something "not that". This doesn't mean that Virgo rising will seek out partners with the sun in Pisces or anything so transparent; merely that it tends to see the partner as exemplifying Piscean traits. These might be very positive if the DC, any 7th house planets, or Neptune are well-aspected; but negative if they are not.

Consequently relationships often get screwed up because people with a given rising sign tend to look to the partner/spouse to complete themselves by exemplifying the positive "not me" traits, which is a huge burden to put on another person. Virgo gets a bit more shrill, and Pisces retreats, refusing to play her game of meeting her perfectionist expectations.

I think the sun in the 7th can be a difficult placement, because a permanent relationship is so important, whether the person has one or not. With women, you often see them giving their personal power away to the man (or hoped-for man) in their lives, whether or not this is any good for them. With the "lonely guy" on this thread, I think that Chiron squaring his sun from the 7th creates a lot of pain around relationships; at least until he can get some chironic "wisdom" regarding his situation.

Me? Virgo rising here. My husband is a sensitive guy who thankfully seems to be recovered from alcohol problems.

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Paul wrote: Not sure if you're "allowed" use modern techniques on this forum, I know some people are skeptical of them, others outright critical of them.
Hi Paul,

AFAIK this particular forum on Skyscript allows all techniques, it is the Traditional forum that focuses on non-modern work. While there are posters, like myself, who are skeptical & critical of modern astrology, as long as people are civil there shouldn't be any problem. And our moderators do a good job of stepping in if some sort of problem comes up.
Gabe

22
waybread

I haven't read that book but I totally agree with a lot of what you're saying here. My personal approach is to see the ascendant as that part of us that we recognise in ourselves and is our particular subjective filter through which we see the world and the world sees us. The descendant on the other hand is the less 'conscious' part of us that we tend to project onto others as well as that side of ourselves that we expect from other people.
I totally agree with the 'adjective' idea that you used for signs. I see it this way, signs are merely the 'style' or 'expression' of the planets. The more interesting thing for me is the aspects. For example Moon square Saturn is, for me, more relevant than, say, Moon in aquarius, that's not to say moon in aquarius isn't relevant of course. One thing I have noticed though is that those with 7th house planets may well project them onto their partners. So there is the stereotypical cases of people with Mars in the 7th who protest that they are not angry/competitive/selfish, but by god their partner is, or, more generally, 'other' people are. In other words they do not recognise their own mars qualities in themselves and so tend to 'give them away' to other people which they then invariably meet from others.
Of course that's not relevant to this chart but I thought I'd just mention it cos of the discussion on the descendant.


GR

Thanks! Wasn't sure and I didn't want to antagonise anyone!

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To confirm - you're allowed any astrological technique you like on this forum.

The bias tends to be traditional as most posters on Skyscript are traditional astrologers. If you're not, you're not. So long as the "be respectful to other astrologers" rule is adhered to, there will be no problems.
www.kimfarnell.co.uk

24
My apologies for not answering so many replies in a timely fashion, there was some unexpected seriousness that needed attending to.

So to begin: As I stated, I was given birth time etc with the intention of interpreting the chart but then found myself desiring feedback since it is a big issue for the subject. I don't have access to many personal astrologers, so I posited some questions on the forum and was asked to post the full chart for better analysis. I believe it is most anonymous as this person was born in a major metropolis.

So some key (non astrological) points that I too saw in the chart:

Yes, the subject is prone to both heavy naivete and unrealistic views of women and of life in general. I would venture to say he tends to like "pining" more than the real deal. He has an unusual lack of insight regarding many aspects of interpersonal connection both with women and with friendship. There is some problem with substances, but really more that his attitude towards such things are age inappropriate with regard to the priority or focus of them in life - most outgrow by 40's, at least the "impressed" part of it.

He is not a player, nor would I characterize him as a person who is very sexualized. He is the quintessential nice guy with damsel in distress women friends who date other guys. His longest relationship has lasted 6 months and he goes through years without. He cites having marriage and children as one (if not the one) biggest life desires.

Family (what little I know) his Mother was the bedrock of family, loyal, kind, but not particularly fond of demonstrative behaviour or affection. Lots of admiration of her sacrificial (IMO a bit martyr) nature. Father was affectionate but irresponsible. Both parents are physically attractive- as is he. Substance abuse issues abound in siblings and with father.

Interesting observations (to me) was about long memory and resentment (yes, he is oddly resentful for such a passive person) Anger in general is a bit of an issue, or better said, the lack of...

Sabotage Note: A major behavioural flaw is with the phone: getting back to family/friends/girlfriends in a timely manner and he is duly, chronically late. He is not good with money nor is he particularly successful, though well educated. This lack of cash is often cited as one of the only acknowledged flaws restraining his capacity for relationship. He can be fixed and unreachable regarding the inconsiderate phone behavior/lateness.

I've been reading the responses and thinking about my own gut response about not responding to this chart for a variety of reasons, one being I don't find the subject particularly open to feedback. I am, however, really interested in reading your responses. Originally it was stagnant, but then it just took off and *I'm* learning a great deal :)