25
'talking to me?
if you are, please read what I've written (quote below). If not - sorry.
Astrology being scientifically not testable has, in my opinion, its own purpose - were it testable it would be so only in a part, the science would have proven it a long ago. Having done that, the science would have studied and practiced only that part of astrology and discarded everything else . Astrologers would have become scientists and forgotten 95 percent of their art. That would have led to a very reduced astrology.
regards

27
Reading the comments in the chill-out forum (psychotic Lulu) about Dean?s chart; I have looked at the chart and it is very interesting. I am surprised astrologers don?t formulate a response to Dean that exploit?s our knowledge of his chart.

28
personally i've started it to consider it a waste of precious energy trying to convince sceptics.

most of them have such ego issues that if you try to persuade them, all that happens is that their resistance even increases.

29
Mathew, glad you joined us
As for this
Reading the comments in the chill-out forum (psychotic Lulu) about Dean?s chart; I have looked at the chart and it is very interesting. I am surprised astrologers don?t formulate a response to Dean that exploit?s our knowledge of his chart.
somehow I disagree. Of course if a person has disclosed his birthdata, he/she may expect others to look at it and say a thing or two and most of us have started our astrology studies with a few things from the celebrity charts or charts of the people we somehow got but didn't even bother to ask a permission to analyze. But as I go on with astrology, considering the natal charts interpretations I'm more and more inclined to stick with "do not enter unless invited" thing.
And I don't think it's right to "exploit" anyone's birthdata no matter how noble the cause might be. So even if the cause is to defend astrology from the prevailing and imposing sceptics view, I wouldn't use it. I hope this doesn't sound too moralistic, but no matter how it may look like, it's my honest opinion. Astrology is a powerful device. Having power must be accompanied by being responsible and the latter should grow as the former does
Regards and welcome
V.

30
Hello Viola and thank you for your welcome.

There are two interpretations for the word ?exploit?. One is ?to make use of selfishly or unethically?; the other is ?to employ to the greatest possible advantage?. I used the word in the latter sense. Dean has a very powerful Moon-Nepune opposition across his MC-IC axis; Mercury in Capricorn is tied into this and Saturn rules and is posited in his 9th house. Understanding the mindset that motivates his criticism may place us in a better position to respond more effectively. Granted it may not. However, it comes to something when astrologers do not feel it is appropriate to use astrology in their defence of astrology.

Sorry, but I find that bizarre.

31
Sorry, but I find that bizarre.
Be as it may, thanks for your post that provided an opportunity for me to express my opinion on this ethical issue
There are two interpretations for the word ?exploit?. One is ?to make use of selfishly or unethically?; the other is ?to employ to the greatest possible advantage?. I used the word in the latter sense.
I didn't really question your motives here, but the possible results of the action suggested by you. There is sometimes a very thin dividing line between these two and it gets very difficult to determine where getting of "the greatest possible advantage" ends and "unethical use" begins. At least this is so for my simple mind. Therefore I decided to stick to the rules.
warm regards
V.

32
Mathew wrote: Understanding the mindset that motivates his criticism may place us in a better position to respond more effectively.
And this is perhaps what worries Dean when he refuses to give out his birth data. He is someone who chose not to give out these details to Garry Phillipson to include in the book 'Astrology in the Year Zero.' Of course, there are all sorts of reasons why people do not wish to make this information available. However, if there is nothing in astrology as Dean seems to be claiming, then it shouldn't worry him if astrologers have this information since they can learn nothing from it anyway.

33

And this is perhaps what worries Dean when he refuses to give out his birth data. He is someone who chose not to give out these details to Garry Phillipson to include in the book 'Astrology in the Year Zero.
The data I posted was obtained many years ago he was a member of the FAA in Perth. Subsequently Dean has denied it, and refused to give his data on several occasions as a way to 'fudge' the fact that some of us 'oldies' have it up our sleeves . The data has been confirmed - I always confirm sources and make it my business to track down as many confirmations as I can. You'd be surprised who is lurking up my sleeve!

So far as 'exploiting' - I do think there are two alternative views on this. I do prefer to use the word optimise as a more positive connotation, but why go to all that trouble? He is entitled to his point of view - he is one in a stuck place and the more astrologers give his opinions light, the happier he and those like him feel.

They are looking for arguements, why bother to give them one. Acknowledging their existence only validates them.

Hamish Saunders wrote an excellent response in the NZ journal and I have a lovely video of my friend Garth Carpenter who put the whole shemozzle into perspective. I am hoping to get Garth to let me transcribe it, but have to contact the TV station too. I'll put it on my website eventually.

Different fishes in the same ocean!
Linda

34
Well just to ad fuel to the flames, Chaos theory suggests that scientific data is fantasy, and not fact. When you get to the micro level everything changes with the least amount of suggestion. merely observing an incident changes the data, which refuses you accurate data. Ergo, his scientific data has no credence. But that is the Physicist in me speaking. I really havn't much patience with people whose sole purpose in life is to abuse some other groups ideals. Reminds me entirely too much of religious persecution. (I'm not getting technical cause Deb gets annoyed with me for getting technical, lets just say the heisenburg uncertainty principle applies to everything) :-) As does Schroedengers fictiteous cat, whos name by the way is Finian.
(Yes Deb, I'm being a brat)

MissB

36
Actually when I used the explaination that E = MC2 is identically equal to F=Ma, though not the reverse, etc...in a post. but my former response was meant in much lighter terms. It was not a huge blow out or anything, but exactly what I said, an annoyance. and I also meant what I said when I said I was being a brat, as in teasing people for letting someone like Dean get to them.

the post was "on the lighter side" so to speak, I did not mean to hurt anyones feelings, or anything.

I think it would be much more fun for a number of Astrologers to post his chart and discuss his intellectual stagnation in detail in a completely non aggressive, very light hearted mode and make lots of interesting suggestions about his personal life, than to legitemize his so called experiments by dissecting them. But then I'm a bit brutal in some respects (hey, my aries ruler has to show up somewhere)

MissB