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Inheritance Question
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:24 pm    Post subject: Inheritance Question Reply with quote

Forum,

A querant has asked: Will I inherit at least X amount from my Father's estate or will?

3 / 21 / 2011 2:10 pm Reno, Nevada

If you click on the webb address below and then click on the chart it will enlarge for your viewing:

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=u8qfilesginc6-u1300744732&lang=e&gm=a1&nhor=1&nho2=1&btyp=2&mth=gr&sday=21&smon=3&syr=2011&hsy=5&zod=&orbp=&rs=2&add=18&node=-Yn&mnode=-Ym&fix=1&ast

The Asc. is 1Leo44, with the Sun at 0Ar54 in the 9H, with the Moon at 1Sco11 in the 4H making an eventual trine to Venus at 23Aqu31 in the 7H; the Moon is in Via Combusta, the Burned Path, the Claws of the Scorpion, and Not in a good way. And the Moon, by Lilly's 5 degree rule, is cjt. the cusp of the 8th.

With Aqu on the 7H this horary astrologer knows he needs some help on this one as he is hampered due to the 7th's Saturn rulership.

With the early rising degree, I hear the warning that it's 'not yet mature' as I know that the querant is Not testing the astrologer. Also with the Via Combusta Moon I know the querant is in a bad way on this. Yet Lilly has a few early Asc. horarys in CA II and answered them.

As the 4th, according to Lilly, is the house of the matter, and Venus is Lord of the matter, and Venus is trined by the Moon, though Not in orb, I'm saying 'yes' that the querant will recieve an inheritance of at least that amount. But that Early Asc., Via Combusta Moon, and the Saturn ruled 7th, makes me very leary on this one since the Moon is so far out of orb or moeity to Venus, the Lord of the matter.

Would appreaciate insights and critical analysis of this horary.

Clinton Garrett Soule

The wise ones know true experts realize how little they know
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the inheritance is real property, I'd take it to be 4th house. For money and moveable possessions (jewellry or the like) I'd take 8th as the house of legacies.
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Dione T



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would consider querent = sun, 4th the father = venus, which would make sense venus is conjunct the 8th cusp if the father is about to die or newly dead, OR has made a very official announcement about making his will.
His estate, 4 from 4, 7th saturn, his other asset 2nd from 4th, 5th and detrimented mars in 9th. In courthouse, religious donation, abroad?
I'd be concerned about the mutual dislike between sun and saturn (who also rules the 8th). And the 'legal' jupiter who will oppose the will/estate saturn.
Via combusta moon is erratic, currently voc and early asc, will produce an unexpected surprise.
Maybe the belated moon mars trine in the end proves the 'yes'...


EDIT: fixed the 'combust' into "via combusta" so nobody gets mislead!
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Last edited by Dione T on Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tanit
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Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI - the astro.com charts always expire, so that image will likely be gone soon.

I think the 8th is more so describing the inheritance here - PoF in the 8th, Saturn ruling the 8th in the 4th (an inheritance from the father). Pluto in Capricorn in the mix is certainly adding to the description of the inheritance from the father. I would imagine property is involved as well as money with Venus and Saturn connected. Saturn would also be lessening the amount of the inheritance though because his nature is to constrict. The Jupiter-Saturn opp has been very common in legal issues where someone feels like they didn't understand what they were getting into and regretted the situation later. I have seen this in event charts a lot because I work in a place that involves legal issues with money. Another common influence is one side wanting to help the other but being unable to - there is one side wishing to increase substance, the other wishing to constrict. I would tell the querent to read all paperwork very well before getting involved. I find it more likely that the inheritance is being overestimated, or something to that effect. Perhaps he has a lot of debt that will eat up whatever he gets. Neptune in the 8th seems to add troubles with debt - I had a transit there that did that.

I wonder at Neptune in the 8th and also Mercury on the MC opp Saturn, the 8th ruler and Mercury naturally representing wills. Is the mother still alive (10th)? Will she maybe cause trouble? Mercury also rules the house of siblings and is in the 10th, so I am not sure how it is connected. Or maybe it is somehow the rule of the will. Maybe the will is ambiguous or will involve deception somehow when the resources are dispersed. The querent is well placed but the Moon is in fall in the 4th and rules the 12th, which seems like there may be drama involving other family members over the situation. It might just be describing the father's current state if he is still alive or something, I am not sure (or maybe just describing that he has passed, since fall is akin to a fall from grace and could be of the body).

The Sun is well placed but none of the significators are aspecting within orb (other than Sun approaching an opp to Saturn and them both being in signs of each other's fall), so it seems like whatever money is given out would require effort on his part to receive it, such as through a legal battle. There are three oppositions in this chart. But I would think Sun is a natural benefic in the chart and might help him get ahead in the end. Still the oppositions seem to suggest some sort of clash.
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Dione T



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 39

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit wrote:
FYI - the astro.com charts always expire, so that image will likely be gone soon.

Only if you do not add them to "my astro" (if you are not logged in when you make the chart) or delete them. I have charts since 2008 that are still there.
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hervaro



Joined: 13 May 2009
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Location: Ronda, ES

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jupiter, Lord of Plenty and ruling the PoF in Pisces-8, seems to be good candidate for representing gain from father's inheritance (taking whole-sign houses he also rules the 2nd of the 4th sign from the asc).

Sun L1 is traveling towards Jupiter, but before he can reach him (at 16 Aries) he gets a stick thrown at him by Saturn (opposition); Moon as co-ruler of querent cannot see Jupiter, is in Via Combusta and in fall, and - like the asc - in early degrees.
Agreed that the sharply applying trine from Moon to PoF looks quite promising, but there 's also something very disturbing: Moon is also very joined to Neptune by antiscion...

So I read the answer for this chart as a "no", OR a "yes" with a very strong "but..."...

Both Mercury and Saturn "yelling" at the astrologer from their highlighted positions, may point to important issues about this situation: documents and/or law, or maybe father's neighbours/brothers/sisters, or querent's spouse or opponents...

Herman
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
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Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish to sincerily thank the following for thier help on this critical horary:

Olivia

Dione T.

Tanit

hervaro(Herman Van Roy)

As you all have seen there is both a Saturn ruled 7H for the astrologers working on the horary and Saturn is rated R, or rectrograde Rx; so we are all off a little on our analysis.

I must most humbly apoligize to the Forum for a grave mistake, again Saturn Rx, lord of the 7th. In my haste I violated an horary precept that Lilly states we horary artists must never do; that being 'our work must become impeccable in earnest integrity'. In that I was Not infallible in my initial analysis on this in regard to aspects, and I am ashamed because many of you trusted my judgment as I stated that the Moon was trining Venus, trusted me at my word, I was away from my computer last night and could not edit the error, but Venus will eventually recieve a squ from Luna Not a trine as I had said. Talk about Saturn Rx, I was expecting much chastisement and humiliation for my error which I hope all on the Forum shall forgive. I hope all viewing the chart that seems to not delete off astro.com when you do Not enlarge it by clicking on the chart after clicking on the webb address. I hope this does Not cause any of you to back off from judgment as I know there are some trully brave horary artists who are most kind and very helpful on this Forum. :(

In CA II, chapter XXXIV, 'If the querant shall enjoy the estate of his father', Lilly states naturaly 'that the Asc. and Lord are the querant and the 4H and Lord and planet posited represent the father, while the personal goods and estate of the father are represented by the 5th(2nd of the 4th) and if the lord of the 5H be Rx or in bad aspect to a malevolent planet that the father may waste or dispose of some part of the estate'

Since the 5th, the goods of the Father is being eventually trined by the Moon I don't see this as a problem; excluding the coming cjt. from Mars to Uranus as it's an Outer and Not under Traditionalist methods. The only reason I mention this Outer is that our adept Host has said 'that in some rare cases she has seen where outers were the only way the horary could be answered'.

As stated the inheritance/Venus, the 4th matter, being Venus will recieve a wide Squ from Luna, which is stating both the querant and father are at odds in some way and there is possibly not an inheritance. Yet the problem with an Early degree rising is a warning to the astrologer but Lilly answered a few early rising horarys.

Clinton Garrett Soule

The wise ones know true experts realize how little they know
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clinton, don't worry about it - at least not here. I know I've made similar mistakes at forums and had to go back and correct them - there's something about typing into a tiny box that's distracting, at least for me, and if someone picks up the error before I do, I'm grateful for the correction. Strangely, a lot of people find it insulting - bad attitude there.

You've no need to apologise so much to us, and obviously you caught it before you went on. I think it's also a good reminder that the considerations before judgement exist for a reason.

On the subject of the chart itself, if the father is still alive, I agree with the approach as set forth by Lilly, Bonatti, et al. I took the inheritance question to mean that he was dead and there was some controversy or speculation about the estate (bad me - reading things that weren't there), when I should have asked you for clarification.

It's sorted now, though, and no harm done, just an acknowledgement that astrologers make mistakes, too, and we need to go over charts very carefully.
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
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Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Click on horary below:

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=u8qfilesginc6-u1300744732&lang=e&gm=a1&nhor=1&nho2=1&btyp=2&mth=gr&sday=21&smon=3&syr=2011&hsy=5&zod=&orbp=&rs=2&add=18&node=-Yn&mnode=-Ym&fix=1&ast

Dione T said:

Quote:
I would consider querent = sun, 4th the father = venus, which would make sense venus is conjunct the 8th cusp if the father is about to die or newly dead, OR has made a very official announcement about making his will.
His estate, 4 from 4, 7th saturn, his other asset 2nd from 4th, 5th and detrimented mars in 9th. In courthouse, religious donation, abroad?
I'd be concerned about the mutual dislike between sun and saturn (who also rules the 8th). And the 'legal' jupiter who will oppose the will/estate saturn.


Dione T, as always astrology amazes us, for I know the querant personally. And the Asc. of this horary is making an applied cjt. to the querant's father's Sun, as the querant has told me thier father was born the 26th of July/about 4 degrees Leo. It also amazes me that the querant said he had the father's natal done years ago with a Capricorn asc., and Saturn was in the 12H as I understand; seems that could correlate to the Saturn cjt. the horary's 4H. I bring this up in regard to Lilly's emphasis on looking at the Asc. and seeing traits in the querants appearence; maybe someone has noticed other writters noting simular correlations in the pre-1800 horary lore. The querant does Not have the father's map handy for me to read but it's Not in horary analysis of our methods anyhow; just thought it was kind of like correlating data, as Saturn is on the 4H in this horary.

Father is presently living though in ill health to my understanding.

Another amazing thing is the querant told me they came up with the question while at the library, then emailed me the question. The Library being the 9H, and where the querant's Sun is placed in this horary, and applying to a cjt. to Jupiter, also the library. Also the querant is presently long distance from the Father, again Sun in the 9H for long distance travel.

Dione T, the querant has explained the father(4H Libra cusp) has been very secretive about the will, again Venus cjt. the horary's 8th, and as you say is preparing for his eventual death.

In CAII, Chapter XXXIV, 'If the Querant shall enjoy the estate of his Father', I find that Saturn cjt. the 4H may, actually in the horary's 3rd, may mean the father has little to will to the querant as Lilly states "If you find an Unfortune in the 4th, not having Dignities there, then you may say the Father hath little left to part with his Money, nor will it be good to move him much, untill that unfortunate Planet be transited out of that Signe: ...". So I'm wondering as the querant has said that the estate of the father was drastically reduced due to the stock failings of '99' and possible medical bills, if it is smaller than the querant's figure he asked about.

Also the Moon as I have stated is in Via Combusta/ 1Scorpio11, the Burned Path, and Not combust unless someone can explain to me that the via combusta is also called combust by some authority Ancient or otherwise.

Dione T, I can see that the 4th of the 4th, being oppositioned by Jupiter(lord of attorneys and Churches) is a real factor here as the end of the matter of the father's estate; could be a change in the will.

Clinton Garrett Soule

The wise ones know true experts realize how little they know
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Dione T



Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 39

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clinton Soule wrote:

1. Dione T, as always astrology amazes us,

2. Another amazing thing is the querant told me they came up with the question while at the library, then emailed me the question. The Library being the 9H, and where the querant's Sun is placed in this horary, and applying to a cjt. to Jupiter, also the library. Also the querant is presently long distance from the Father, again Sun in the 9H for long distance travel.

3. "If you find an Unfortune in the 4th, not having Dignities there, then you may say the Father hath little left to part with his Money, nor will it be good to move him much, untill that unfortunate Planet be transited out of that Signe: ...".[/b] So I'm wondering as the querant has said that the estate of the father was drastically reduced due to the stock failings of '99' and possible medical bills, if it is smaller than the querant's figure he asked about.

4. Also the Moon as I have stated is in Via Combusta/ 1Scorpio11, the Burned Path, and Not combust unless someone can explain to me that the via combusta is also called combust by some authority Ancient or otherwise.

5. Dione T, I can see that the 4th of the 4th, being oppositioned by Jupiter(lord of attorneys and Churches) is a real factor here as the end of the matter of the father's estate; could be a change in the will.

1. Absolutely Smile And with the asc on natal sun we have a radicality of the chart and I believe we can kick out the 'too early' asc as a problem.

2. Very nice correspondence indeed!

3. But our infortune does have dignities there (exaltation, triplicity and face). Plus the accidental dignity from angularity. I do agree there will be a diminishing effect though, for the reasons of 2nd house ruler. Which appears to correspond with the stocks and medical bills issues.

4. About the "combust" moon MY BAD! My bad English in fact, it is not of course combust, (is my bad for making a fundamentally wrong typo that I missed when proofreading what I wrote; I meant in the combusta way and writing a short-form (creating a wrong participle), I resulted in calling our moon combust, I am sorry, I meant to write it is in via combusta. Sad

5. I think so too, (adding the via combusta moon too), there will be some kind of not very pleasant change/surprise, some unaccounted for factor (in my opinion).

I am going back and forth rereading your latest post, I do not see why you should be humiliated in any way. For one, it is for us to cross check any aspects, no matter what you had said. Overlooking something happens very often. Besides, you did a very nice job and the more you delineate it, the more you find.
I -for one- do not have the expertise to chastise anyone and I urge you to consider I am but a student (I always worry I misguide someone in their delineations). Embarassed
If I missed your point or some of them, my apologies.
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
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Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dione T said;

Quote:
4. About the "combust" moon MY BAD! My bad English in fact, it is not of course combust, (is my bad for making a fundamentally wrong typo that I missed when proofreading what I wrote; I meant in the combusta way and writing a short-form (creating a wrong participle), I resulted in calling our moon combust, I am sorry, I meant to write it is in via combusta.


Did some reading, and it should have been obvious to me that Combusta is Latin for Combust. So you were right, but we have come to separate them to not confuse the sun cjt. term Combust.

Clinton Garrett Soule
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
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Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit,

I've found if one calculates the chart on astro.com and does Not enlarge it, and copys the wbb address, it will still be there weeks later. One can enlarge it when they click on the chart after they have clicked on the webb address.

Also the querant's mother is dead, and the father remarried, so there is a step mother involved and siblings.

Tanit said:

Quote:
The querent is well placed but the Moon is in fall in the 4th and rules the 12th, which seems like there may be drama involving other family members over the situation. It might just be describing the father's current state if he is still alive or something, I am not sure (or maybe just describing that he has passed, since fall is akin to a fall from grace and could be of the body).


Yes, I understand the Moon is both in it's essential fall being in sco and accidental dignity as it's in the 4th in this horary. I think what you wrote could describe the querant's relationship at this time as the father and querant are at odds on an issue as I understand. But then with that Moon and the nature of most inheritances few are abscent a little drama.

Clinton Garrett Soule

The wise ones know true experts realize how little they know
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Carol



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 211

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Clinton,

Seems like the most promising indicator in the whole situation is, as you mentioned earlier, the trine from Moon/querent to Mars/5th/father's goods and estate.

Also, Moon, although fallen in Scorpio, is well received by Mars. So whatever there is to be gotten, looks like he might be in a pretty good position in spite of all the other negatives. Maybe Mars being cadent might lessen things (in addition to Saturn on 4th), but Mars in its triplicity might also help somewhat.

And although Mars' eventual conjunction with Uranus might represent some unpredictable complication, it's not within Mars' orb (7 degrees), so that might be a "preventative" to some degree. Then again, Uranus could represent an unexpected pleasant surprise too.

So just a few guesses as I haven't had much experience with inheritance questions.
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BlueMoon



Joined: 21 Feb 2011
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Querent is Sun exalted in Aries in house 9

Querent has essential dignity, placed in a cadent, but good house.
Querent has good intentions.
9th house is 6th from the 4th. Perhaps this shows querent's focus on father's ill health.
Sun in Aries is ruled by Mars, Mars rules radical 5th, which is 2nd from the 4th= father inheritance.
Querent is interested in the inheritance.

Querent's co significator is Moon in Scorpio in 4th.
Moon is in her fall, but the Moon has shared triplicity in water signs.
So, the Moon has mixed dignity. Also being in Via Combusta,
this combination shows that the emotions are heightened, and perhaps querent is emotionally unstable/worried/having difficulty.
The Moon is accidentally dignified in 4th, giving the Moon 'power to act'.
What is Moon focused on? Moon in 4th, focused on the father.
Moon in scorpio ruled by Mars, querent is once again focused on inheritance.
Perhaps the Moon being in fall shows some guilt felt by querent in the concern over the inheritance.

Father is Venus in aquarius on cusp of radical 8th. Venus approaching 8th house cusp indicates father moving toward death.
Further testimony of death is the ruler of the 8th, Saturn, on the 4th cusp = death approaches father.
Additional testimony comes from the mutual reception between Father (venus) and Death (Saturn)

Inheritance from father is 2nd from the 4th, radical 5th, ruled by Mars in pisces in 9th.
Mars has dignity in Pisces because Mars is one of the triplicity rulers of water signs.
Mars is in the radical 9th, which is the turned 6th from the father, so some of the inheritance is being used up by his illness.
Mars in Pisces is neither extremely powerful, nor weak, so, there should be 'some money' to inherit.

Will the querent inherit money?
The Moon is the fastest planet in the horoscope, and her first aspect is to Mars, the inheritance.
The Moon has power to act being in an angular house.
The Moon and Mars have mutual reception.
This will occur in an increment of 20, the degrees between Moon and Mars.
Most likely 20 months since father is currently alive and 20 days seems too soon. 20 months is Fall of 2012.

Please note: the 8th house does indicate 'inheritance', but not specifically as asked by the querent.
If someone asks "Will I ever inherit money", then we will look to the 8th.
However, when a querent names a person, in this case the father, we always look to the 2nd house from the person named.
Spouse's money is 8th
Brother's money is 4th
Friend's money is 12th.
Father's money is 5th.

If the querent has specifically said 'my father's land' then we would
take a look at radical 7th, which is 4th (land) from the 4th (father)

But in this case, it was just the father's inheritance, so we take the 5th house, 2nd (money belonging to) 4th (father)

Plus, the Sun and Moon, co significators of querent, both being in signs ruled by Mars, gives further testimony to the 5th house being the quesited.

Please let us know how this unfolds.

BM (BlueMoon)
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carol said:

Quote:
Also, Moon, although fallen in Scorpio, is well received by Mars. So whatever there is to be gotten, looks like he might be in a pretty good position in spite of all the other negatives. Maybe Mars being cadent might lessen things (in addition to Saturn on 4th), but Mars in its triplicity might also help somewhat.


Yes Carol the Moon trine may be a salvation point in this horary, what is trully baffling me is the squ from the Via Combusta Moon to Venus, lord of the 4th, the father and inheritance matter.

The querant has stated he and the father have been at odds most of thier life. So I'm wondering that the Moon representing the querant and squ the lord of the fourth is stating a rescent struggle between the two(querant & Father) and that is why the querant may have asked the question when they did.

That Moon squ seems contradictory in this matter.

I was viewing John Gadbury's data on inheritance horarys and nothing fits. Lilly however, as usual, hits upon a few things in his inheritance section, 4th house matters.

Clinton Garrett Soule

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