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Explosion in Government Quarters, Oslo
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Anna



Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 61
Location: Sweden

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
These were really sickening and depraved acts. Words fail me. I cant really find it in me to even look at the astrology of this yet. I am sure all our hearts go out to the victims, their families and the traumatised survivors In Norway. May all find peace.

Mark


Hi Mark,

I guess we tend to turn to our "religious" beleifs in hard times (and in good times as well of course). Searching for some sort of explanation. Astrology always give that. Maybe it's the same thing as when the Church explain things as "the Will of God". We accept it, but we want to know how and maybe why God did it.

Yes, it is sickening.

Love/Anna
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Anna



Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 61
Location: Sweden

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew,

Thanks so much for your effort and all the information! That was sweet of you. You must be pretty upset beeing so close to this horror. We do'nt want to take advantage of you if you feel bad.

Noted one thing. You consider the outer planets? Including Pluto?

If so, the Norway chart you put up has Pluto 21 degree Gemeni. In house 10/4. Mars passing/conj this week. Yes, the eclipse of June 15 again.

Mars is a really a bad one!

Love/Anna
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1393

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You seem very assertive in your statement, but I do not understand why natal firdaria should not work in mundane as well. I suspect the reason why the ancients did not use it in that way is because that they more often than not lacked the accurate time of the birth of the nation.


Well, if you are simply going to dismiss traditional astrology, then why you want to use a traditional tool? The ancients created a different set of firdaria because mundane astrology is different than natal, not because they "lacked accuracy" on the "birth of the nation" (a complete modern concept by the way).

One cannot just pick and choose from traditional astrology the tools they want to, or the ones they like. Tradition is a whole, and so you can´t just pick a tool, while using it in way not coherent with the traditional concept.
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4990
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yuzuru/Ole

Regarding Firdaria: I feel a bit torn on this issue. I think if someone wants to be strictly medieval in technique Yuzuru is correct. The technique seems to have been developed for foundational ingress charts. However, I dont see what is wrong with Ole's approach of trying out a traditional technique like firdaria to a more modern approach ie national charts. I know Steven Birchfield has done quite a lot of work in this area. To reject this out of hand would be like saying one cannot apply the bounds or dwads to national charts. Of course if someone wants to reject national charts full stop because they are not traditional (or for other reasons) that is another issue.

On a practical level though I have been rather unsatisfied with the results of firdaria applied to the national charts I have studied to date. They often seem out of sequence to key events. Even with accurately timed national charts. I am still researching foundational ingress charts. However, they are not a panacea either. Not least as there is often considerable debate when the foundational ingress for a modern nation should be dated from. For example modern France, Germany, Britain or the USA. I do find profections seem to work well with national charts though.

Mark
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Mark
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Yuzuru/Ole,

Ok guys chill out. I have had to delete some comments. Your not going to convince each other this way so please drop this issue and lets move on.

Mark
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4676
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anna wrote:
Noted one thing. You consider the outer planets? Including Pluto? If so, the Norway chart you put up has Pluto 21 degree Gemeni. In house 10/4. Mars passing/conj this week. Yes, the eclipse of June 15 again.

Anna,
Your observations stand in their own right. Personally, I have noticed the transit of the Moon's South node over the radical postion of Pluto in the chart of Norway. This combination is more exact and besides, probably more sinister.

Maybe we also observe Pluto as co-ruler of Scorpio, hence lord of the cusp of the 4th in the Norwegian chart. The weather is the poorest I can remember as far as Summers are concerned. We had over 50mm rain this weekend (measured in my back garden), and there was a small earthquake almost 4 Richter reported night to Thursday. The 4th house also opposes the government, ruled by the 10th, as also it rules the weather and the land and earth. Maybe the South Node crossing the body of Pluto pits the 4th house.
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Mark
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ole wrote:
Quote:
We are having 3 comets heading towards Earth at the same time; when did that last happen in human history?


All the time actually. We have only been able to accurately measure comets around us in the solar system in the last few decades. We are now aware of hundreds of comets floating around the solar system our ancestors would have had no idea of.

By studying the orbits of comets, astronomers have come to the conclusion that two major reservoirs of comets exist. The Kuiper belt, out beyond Pluto, is a flared disc of comets that supplies most of the short-period comets (those that orbit the Sun in less than a century). The Oort cloud (named after Jan H. Oort) is much larger and supplies the long-period comets. It encloses the Solar System, with an outer edge that reaches almost a quarter of the way to the nearest star. By taking the size of the Oort cloud into account, and the number of long-period comets that have been seen, astronomers estimate that a staggering one 'trillion' (12 zeros) comets may be waiting out there!

However, when they do enter the inner solar system they are being pulled in by the gravitational force of the Sun and therefore fortunately rarely come that close to the Earth. We also know that the traditional outer planets (Saturn and Jupiter) and especially Jupiter with its powerful gravitational field act as cosmic vacuum cleaners absorbing many comets before they reach the inner solar system. Very approrpriate for Jupiter as the great benefic.

Astrologically, though a comet is only significant if it is naked eye visible . The brighter a comet is the more significant it is astrologically. Very few of the comets noted by astronomers meet the grade. Plus comets are unpredictable critters. Sometimes they greatly surpass expectations in terms of magnitude/brightness. More often though they fail to deliver on the expected magnitude. As one astronomer said 'Comets are like cats, they have tails and do what they like!'

The only bright comet I am aware of coming our way at present is C/2011 L4 (PANSTARRS) in 2013. The comet could be brightest between March 8-12, 2013 with a magnitude between 0-3. Its not going to be that close being about the distance of Mercury from the Earth. However, there could always be more bright univited guests we are unaware of at present. With comets the motto is watch the skies!

Mark
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4676
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Notice that the transit Mars cast a square to the natal Sun of PM Jens Stoltenberg through signs of short ascension, so in the midst of trouble he has been able to mount both the courage, steadfastness and a move of defense that has been nothing short of impressive.

Chatting with concerned friends from Poland, really, there is no other place I would more like to be than Norway at the moment. The way the Norwegian people have dealt with this crises, including the participation from the Royal family, politicians, police officials, the church, medical expertice, the press may be credited, campers ashore inside Utöya and not to mention some of those closest effected by the attack, the youths themselves and their families - I do think this has done credit to the civil principles of Mankind, brotherhood and democracy.

I saw the Prime Minister giving Queen Sonja a hug after inspecting the government building this afternoon. Everyone has allowed to show themselves from both a professional and personal level. There will be local elections in two months time and I wouldn't mind guessing that there will be a record high participation in honour of the victims of this meaningless slaughter of innocent lives.
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 922
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like Mark I don’t feel comfortable with astrological delineation so short after this disaster, however one comment I’d like to make is that, although this surely is a mundane event, I think that special emphasis should be laid on the natal chart of the assassin. However the 16 June lunar eclipse appears to have some significance. I saw the eclipse and mentioned it, and a possible astrological significance for the regions where it occurred at the horizon, a while ago. Mars and Node were close to the eclipse point. Perhaps he has an angle on the eclipse point or square to it, which would make the connection to the mundane point an perhaps the progressed Sun (in end of Pisces). Without birth time there’s not much to tell about the directions. Perhaps he has an angle on the eclipse point or square to it, which would make the connection to the mundane point an perhaps the progressed Sun (in end of Pisces). Transits neither, however the last years’ transit of Neptune over his Sun-Mercury conjunction could mean something indicating a retreat into the world of internet radicalisation which seems to be significant for these so called ‘lone wolves’ (people who do terrorist/radicalist actions on their own, no organisation). People should beware of hanging around too much on the internet, doing nothing else, creating an own imaginary world and slowly turning insane. Such cases can be found in the astrological world too.

The overviewing mundane aspect of the act fits into the radicalisation of populism and the extreme right. Breivik says he felt inspired by the Dutch Geert Wilders. But the latter (unfortunately another madman which is my compatriot of whom I feel ashamed of) dissociates himself from the act. Well, so did Pontius Pilate....

Mark wrote:
All the time actually. We have only been able to accurately measure comets around us in the solar system in the last few decades. We are now aware of hundreds of comets floating around the solar system our ancestors would have had no idea of.
I was about to say the same. The only comets now to be seen, yet only with an amateur telescope and not with the unaided eye, are Garrad and Crommelin.

Andrew Bevan wrote:
Chatting with concerned friends from Poland, really, there is no other place I would more like to be than Norway at the moment. The way the Norwegian people have dealt with this crises, including the participation from the Royal family, politicians, police officials, the church, medical expertice, the press may be credited, campers ashore inside Utöya and not to mention some of those closest effected by the attack, the youths themselves and their families - I do think this has done credit to the civil principles of Mankind, brotherhood and democracy.
I’ve been writing (and delineating) more than I initially intended to but I hope that the Norway people will remain a normal people without fear and the tension which make the gouvernments taking measures to control the lives of civilians, which are taking place in many countries, like phone-tapping, being forced to use smartcards for train travel, ccctv etc.
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ciuboda



Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 105
Location: Romania

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Mars conj. South Node in Gemini it is a key aspect that triggered this type of event. Esp. that Mars is out of bounds.

Here a list of previous Mars-SN conjunctions in Gemini through the history
http://www.ciuboda.com/post/mars-south-node-conjunction-in-gemini-sign-short-history/335

Dan
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arbeiderpartiet - The Norwegian Labour Party

The Norwegian Labour Party (Arbeiderpartiet) that was the main target of the attack was founded on August 21. 1887 at a small lake called Ormtjern outside Arendal. I do not have a record of the time. I am speculating that it was an evening event. The Moon changed sign and entered Libra at 12.52 GMT. Ahead of this time she would have been Void of Course in Virgo, but both Virgo and Libra are humane signs and share social democratic principles. By using a Solar Sunset chart, 18.49 GMT, another humane sign, Aquarius, is rising in the East.

Arbeiderpartiet - Sunset chart



The chart has the Moon applying to Venus at 4LI32. The current transit Uranus at 4AR30 is opposing this placement. In the radical chart the configuation of Moon and Venus in Libra are applying to the trine of Pluto in Gemini. That seems to found a good arena for discussion and social debate where the welfare state is one of the key issues. Pluto is in the 2nd house. Saturn, lord of the ascendant, is in the first degree of the Royal sign Leo in the 6th house. That seems to be appropriate for the beginning of something new and a Labour Party, ie. Saturn in the 6th house.

We hare said a few things about the placement of the Moon's South node in the chart of the explosion, which was 21GE35 and tied up with Pluto in the chart of Norway. This is angular and on the IC of this Sunset chart for the Arbeiderpartiet. The lunar eclipse of June 15.2011 occurs in the 10th house of this rectified chart. Transit Neptune is in the first house, thus the party is shown vulnerable.

I would like my astrological colleagues to consider whether this chart has merit?
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crown Princess Mette Marit lost her step-brother, Trond Berntsen, under the mass-slaughter out at Utöya on Friday. Trond Berntsen, age 51, was acting as civilian police and working overtime in a private employment to maintain security and order at the Labour party youth camp out on Utöya.

According to witnesses, Berntsen was the second person to get shot after he attempted to stop the assasin from killing the children and young.

Source: VG

Prison meeting
At 13.00hrs CST today, the accused Anders Behring Breivik (32) will appear at a prison meeting in Oslo District Court. Secretary general of Norwegian Press Association Per Edgar Kokkvold said earlier today that the meeting should be held behind closed doors.
"- It is not necessary that Brevik is provided a platform to communicate his sick views. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech," Kokkvold said to Aftenposten. This statement was made by the Secretary General of the Norweigan Press association ahead of the polices request to close the court doors. The matter has to be decided by a court order.

Source: Aftenposten
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daz madrigal



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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delete post
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Last edited by daz madrigal on Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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daz madrigal



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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There has been found to be discrepancies between both the numbers killed and also the precise timing of the start of shootings has now been revised by the Norwegian Police force.

Number of those killed on island is 68 not 93 (Norwegians are not good at maths).

Anders Behring Breivik not mentally ill. He is an egotistical Narcissist who is very aware of what he is doing. See's everything in his value system in black and white terms (muslims/feminists - bad and white/traditional values - good)

EGO  - #Sun#Mer#Mar sq #Ura and trine #Plu

Women - #Mon#Sat

See's everything in his value system in black and white terms - Fixed Sign Emphasis/#Plu tr #Sun#Mer#Mar
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daz wrote:
Number of those killed on island is 68 not 93 (Norwegians are not good at maths).

Excuse me! The police arrived at Utöya where there was utter chaos. Early estimates of 10 dead did not correctly reflect the gravity of the situation. With bodies lying all over the island there was a need to provide information that communicated the severity of killing. We are now glad to know that this figure can be adjusted down, although the catastrophy is hardly reduced in magnitude. The number of lives lost at Utöya was estimated to be 86 including one person who died at hospital. This number has bee adjusted to 68. There are still a number of people fighting for their lives at hospital and there are still people missing both at Utôya and also in the government quarters. The death-count in this latter area has been raised by one person. From 7 dead to now 8. That should add up to 76. But I could be wrong. The death toll may still increase. I do not have the total number of injured and victims.

The police have not yet release a name list of the victims. This is due both the search for missing people, the obduction process, identifying the victims and contacting closest relatives, next of kin. We are likely to wait another few days before this list of both names and photographs of the victims is released. This will bring the mourning process to another stage.

In cities all over Norway there are this evening being held rose parades. This was started by a private initiative. In Oslo there were 30.000 people who had announced they would be participating. At the City Hall Centre there is no more room for people and probably 100.000 people gathered. Everyone held there rose up towards the sky in memory of the victims. Arrangers are unsure whether the solidarity procession can be held, because there is no space to move. People are having difficulty getting into town because so many people want to participate. The picture is the same in other larger Norwegian cities. In Stavanger they said that so many people hadn't been gathered in the Sentrum since 1945 and the ending of World War II. In Oslo the Crown Prince and Crown Princess announced that they would march with the people.
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