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Question on Rectification

 
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nad



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 9

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Question on Rectification Reply with quote

Hello,

How do you go about rectifying a chart with an uncertain day of birth.
I am rectifying a relative's birth day/time. She says she was born after midnight but she has a 15-day interval for her day of birth.

How do you go about rectifying such a case? I would assume that first you focus on Uranus hitting the angles. And then double check Uranus hitting the Moon.

What do you think?

Thanks for feedback.
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RegulusAstrology



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 147
Location: USA

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a very difficult question. If you do not have the correct date, the focus should be on getting the planets in the correct signs with special attention to the Sun and Moon. Depending on what the date range is, you may be lucky and not have to worry about the correct Sun sign. But if the date range is 7 days either side of the 20/21st of a month, you need to double check the Sun sign first. Same situation could in theory apply to any other planet which changes signs within your date range.

But most of your effort will likely end up focusing on getting the Moon's correct sign. Charts of females in the native's family, wife, mother, sister, etc., may provide clues of the Moon's sign for the chart you are working on.

Once you get the Moon sign right, since you have an approximate time, this should be sufficient to choose the correct Ascendant. Only when the Ascendant is confidently chosen is it worthwhile to apply other techniques like your mention of transits or others mentioned in other Skyscript posts or ones I mention in my book on rectification.

Good luck.
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 922
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nad,

So you mean the native approximately knows about the time of birth, a bit after midnight, but not the day? So the person could be born for example the 1st of the month or the 15th?

That's quite a big range. such an uncertainty can occur with adopted children. Many years ago I did a work placement during a study in a refugee center. It was striking to see in the lists how many people had their birthday on 1 july or 1 january.

In this case I would consider the angles too much of an uncertain factor. I therefore would look at transits. In the first place those to Mars. Usually moving at speed that is between 1/2 or 3/4 of the Sun the difference could be 7 to 10. Sun with 1 motion per day gives a range of 15. If you're lucky Mercury or Venus is close to their stationary period (around the moment of start or end of retrograde motion). They then move slower than the Sun and will give a smaller range. Transits to Jupiter Saturn and further slower planets usually aren't strongly noticed (however I personally experienced some transits to my Jupiter as quite strong).

So as an example let's say the native has a range for Mars from 0 - 10 Leo and for the Sun in 20 Sagittarius to 5 Capricorn. Then look in an ephemeris (here's an online one http://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm ) to find slow planets on those places or in hard aspect to those places (0,90,180). Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are slow enough to use. The other planets (however noticeable) are too fast for this I think, they might be used in a later stadium.

Discussing with the person to find difficult or stressfull periods can help to relate these to the planets. However transits can work in different ways, some people notice them much less while others feel them intensely. I remember when I just started experimenting with astrology that I tried to find out my Mother's birth time by transits to the Moon. As she was sceptical about astrology it turned out to be quite difficult to discuss some transits. However I believe I developed some 'knack' to notice notonly my own transits but also those of others. A while ago I noticed that my mother was talking quite 'Neptunian', confusedness etc. That convinced me of finding the position of natal Moon.

These transits to the Moon are the next stage. This is quite useful as first stage when the birth day alone is known (as often is the case when we want to know our grandparents time of birth). However the case you are talking about would give a Moon range of 180 degrees, and it may not always be easy to discern a square to the Moon or an opposition. So I would look at transits to the Moon if you have some certainty of the transits to the other planets mentioned earlier.

Last stage is when you got the Moon then you can try with transits to the angles or with progressions and directions is the Moon positions is estimated in a range of about 3 (1/4th of the diurnal motion).

One thing also depends on the relationship with the person. I personally think that if you know a person quite well then it is easier to notice it that person 'is not him/her self' for a while. I've noticed the transits of family and friends several times in their behaviour, those are people I obviously know for a while. However sometimes it extends and you get a general sense for it, some intuition.

This approach I drew is rather a 'mood' centered vieuw. While transits and directions etc are also related to concrete events, just have a look for example at the 'Mystery rectification' threads on the forum like Deb's recent 'Mystery chart', I think a consideration of moods and behaviour changes in persons are a good way to get results too.

Quote:
This is a very difficult question. If you do not have the correct date, the focus should be on getting the planets in the correct signs with special attention to the Sun and Moon.
I'm just reminded of stories of people who are able to guess the Sun sign of people just by looking at the person or talking with him/her for a while. I've never met one of those but I heard about it several times.
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Martine



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 70
Location: France

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nad

You could try the Animodar rectification method. This goes back to Ptolemy.

- Find the degree of the prenatal lunation. If it is a full Moon, take the degree of the luminary which is above the earth.

- Find the Almuten planet for that degree, i.e. the planet with the most essential dignities on that degree.

- Adjust the ASC or the MC to the degree of this planet in the natal chart , in whatever sign.

- A variation : if the Almuten planet is nearer to the horizon; adjust the ASC, if not, adjust the MC.

Of course, the result must be tested with the life events.

Since you have a birth time and a 15 day period, the ASC and the MC may not change very much from one day to the next. By comparing their degrees to that of above mentioned Almuten planet, in the same chart, you might get an idea of what fits better, especially is that planet is a slow one.
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or if they have questions, you can do horaries for them. That will probably give you more precision. Lilly was known to do 'life reading' horaries for people who didn't have birth times - he's got an example as the very first worked chart of Book 2 of CA.

15 days is a hell of a long-shot to get a correct date and time, especially when we have an astrology that will answer questions for people precisely, even when they don't know those details.
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nad



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 9

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for your replies, apprecited your taking the time to do this.

I am not sure how trustable her comment is about her time of birth being after midnight, but her rising sign would be Saggitarius. And she has subtle physical signs that fit, such as slightly long jaw, slightly broad hips, energetic and flirtatious (Jupiter square Venus).

I came up with a time based on a few of her past events but my test questions ruled it out. So I am back to square one. I guess I need to start with determining the Moon sign.

May I ask what configurations in a chart would be indicative of giving birth?

Thanks,
Nad.
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 922
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nad wrote:
May I ask what configurations in a chart would be indicative of giving birth?
I'm afraid I may not understand this question well. So if I interpret it wrongly, please excuse me for this.

Is the person expecting to have a baby? Or do you mean in general. For the latter I can say that that is difficult since every second a child is born somewhere on earth. If the person is pregnant then recording the time of birth could be useful. People often have planets in aspect with other family members' planets and angles.

I can find some relation between my and my mother's and other closest family members charts. You can compare with the signs as basis or from a perspective of the Sun of which Kepler makes mention in this: http://cura.free.fr/docum/15kep-en.html
Scroll to 6 Heredity.
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nad



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 9

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Eddy,

To clarify, I meant to say what are being triggered in a natal chart (by transits/progressions) when someone is giving birth (or during pregnency)? Two significant events of this person is about her giving birth to her sons.

Thanks.

Nad.
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 922
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nad wrote:
Hi Eddy,

To clarify, I meant to say what are being triggered in a natal chart (by transits/progressions) when someone is giving birth (or during pregnency)? Two significant events of this person is about her giving birth to her sons.

Thanks.

Nad.


In that case I would say that one or several of the planets in the charts of the children is close to (an aspect to) one of the planets/angles of the native. Comparing the brothers with eachother and finding similarities can also be of help. It depends a bit on the age of the sons but maybe some effect can be seen in the interaction between mother and the sons which can be related to an aspect.

If you have the birth times of the sons it may be possible that the mother's chart has some planet over there. Also looking at the chart of the father can reveal the heredity in the children's chart.

Kepler mentioned the Moon phases in his examples. If both boys were born with a waxing Moon trine to the Sun then there might be a chance that the mother has also such an aspect.

My parents charts both each show (roughly/wide orb) similar Moon positions to their Sun. My brothers too (the one in 'mirror' aspect). Only I am odd man out, but actually I'm a son of a king but just after birth I was placed by this family to be taken care of Wink .
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nad



Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 9

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Eddy for taking the time to reply. I will investigate the sons' charts.

Nad.
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Southern Writer



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Down South in the Land of Cotton

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have your work cut out for you. You might try narrowing the field with Sabian Symbols. Good luck.
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J K Sharma



Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 45

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:50 am    Post subject: Birth Time Rectification: Reply with quote

Though Birth Time Rectification is a diifcult task, but I have tried for this and got some success. I use Nadi Astrology (a division of Vedic Astrology) and it give much accuracy.
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