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Horary Chart using the 5th house as embassy

 
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:43 am    Post subject: Horary Chart using the 5th house as embassy Reply with quote


Background: the querent had a trip to Europe planned for mid September. She had a big problem: she needs a visa. Two months before she requested an appointment at the French embassy via internet to renew her Schengen visa. She was supposed to print the date and time of said appointment, but the printer didn’t work and the client was unable to do it. Fortunately, she I had written down the appointment number, as well as date and time, but what really worried her is that when she got to consulate webpage to review the appointment it showed an error. There was no way to contact the embassy by phone and she even went therein in person but could not get to pass the security guard. She wrote three emails to the visa section and hadn’t received a reply.
The question was: Will I be received for my visa at the French Embassy on July 19th?


My answer was:

Mercury, as the universal significator of papers and documentation is in the 9th sharing with the Sun the power over the travel´s house.
Your significators are Jupiter and the Moon, but none of them aspects the ASC.
As a matter of fact the only planet aspecting the ASC is Mars.
Mercury is applying to it, through a sextile aspect, receiving Mars by domicile and Mercury also aspects the ASC.

Mars is the Lot of Fortune´s ruler, which is in the 5th, the house of the ambassadors.
The Moon will next apply to Mercury, which reflects her light back to the ASC.
After Mercury, the Moon will translate her light to the Sun, Mercury´s dispositor.
So, we see that two movements are happening in the sky: 1st: the Moon is linking the Sun and the ASC. 2nd: Mercury by its own is applying to Mars.
The Sun rules the 9th, travels and foreign countries, and Mars rules the 5th, ambassadors (where the Sun is exalted).
We can say that the testimonies are favorable, and the answer is yes, you will be “received” in astrological and in common sense (since the Sun is in Cancer, receiving Jupiter, you, by exaltation), and because Mercury, (Mars dispositor), trines the ASC.
My only concern in this chart is that Venus is preparing to square Saturn, but he is exalted and is received by Venus. Saturn is also in the house of friends, hopes and wishes, a good house: maybe this trip will be a return to the past or to friends from the past…
Also, the Moon in Scorpio may signify some tension. But it can also refer to the anxiety and the uncertain situation you are living now.
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dastars



Joined: 17 May 2012
Posts: 53

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

House 5 is of ambassadors. An embassy is the territory of a foreign country so it is house 9, in my understanding.

A visa is a document issued by the government of a foreign country. So it is the turned 11th from the 9th = radical 7. Mercury is "in the embassy".

Venus, the foreign government, is in Mutual reception with Jupiter and in the Moon's sign. The Moon translates light from Jupiter to Mercury. Yes you will get the visa.

After that the Moon trines the Sun. That is, after the visa the Moon takes the querent to a foreign country.

Neat chart.
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dastars said:
"House 5 is of ambassadors. An embassy is the territory of a foreign country so it is house 9, in my understanding. "

The idea to put this chart here is exactly to show that I used the 5th as the embassy, because the visa will be delivered by the embassador Razz

The 9th has the same element so to use the 9th is fine, but the querent´s Fortune was in the house of the embassador. If man(or woman) does not live there is not important, he is represented there.

I don´t mind if Mars lives in that red planet in the sky, do you? Laughing
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dastars



Joined: 17 May 2012
Posts: 53

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The embassy or the ambassador are irrelevant to the question as far as I can tell, no matter which house we put them in.

She is not asking about the ambassador or the embassy. She is not asking about a particular person/role or place. The bottom line is that it is the foreign government who sees her and gives the visa. That is Venus ans the government and Mercury as a"gift from a king of a foreign country": 2nd from the 6th.

To answer her question literally: will she be received? Yes, she and the government are in mutual reception. She is received indeed -- literally and astrologically.

Not only does the chart show she will be received but shows her getting the visa and going abroad by the flow of events shown by the Moon movement.

Fortuna in the 5th may well show her desire for fun when traveling.

Well, at least we agree that the answer is positive.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Clélia and all,

I should like to give my answer first and discuss your and other's judgements later.


The significators are for the
querent: Jupiter and Moon
quesited: Mars, Lord 5

The question is for the embassy too, but the embassy is only the place to be received at. Of importance is the embassador or his/her staff - house and lord 5.

Mercury is just separating from the square of Jupiter in 5 and applies to a sextile with Mars thus transferring the light and connecting both signifcators. Mercury in his terms and Jupiter are also in mutual reception receiving each other in their own terms. Mars in his face is received by Mercury in his house/domicile.

In my opinion the Moon's square with Mercury, first perfected aspect in the chart, will not prohibit Mercury fom transferring the light between the main singifcators.

Because Mercury, Lord 10 and 7 (3 from 5, letters of the embassador) is general Signifcator of letters and communication the querent possibly got her visa already before the 19th of July (maybe by help of and Brasilian official, 10, or of an "servant" of the embassador 10 = 6 from 5).

At all events: the querent got her visa.

Johannes
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johannes susato wrote:
Hello Clélia and all,

I should like to give my answer first and discuss your and other's judgements later.


The significators are for the
querent: Jupiter and Moon
quesited: Mars, Lord 5

The question is for the embassy too, but the embassy is only the place to be received at. Of importance is the embassador or his/her staff - house and lord 5.

Mercury is just separating from the square of Jupiter in 5 and applies to a sextile with Mars thus transferring the light and connecting both signifcators. Mercury in his terms and Jupiter are also in mutual reception receiving each other in their own terms. Mars in his face is received by Mercury in his house/domicile.

In my opinion the Moon's square with Mercury, first perfected aspect in the chart, will not prohibit Mercury fom transferring the light between the main singifcators.

Because Mercury, Lord 10 and 7 (3 from 5, letters of the embassador) is general Signifcator of letters and communication the querent possibly got her visa already before the 19th of July (maybe by help of and Brasilian official, 10, or of an "servant" of the embassador 10 = 6 from 5).

At all events: the querent got her visa.

Johannes


Yes, Johannes, she got the visa, in the right day. The appointment´s day and hour was recorded by the embassy. Smile

Clelia
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Horary Chart using the 5th house as embassy Reply with quote

Hi Clélia,

you worte
Clelia Romano wrote:
The question was: Will I be received for my visa at the French Embassy on July 19th?

and now
Clelia Romano wrote:
Yes, Johannes, she got the visa, in the right day. The appointment´s day and hour was recorded by the embassy.

but in the explanations to the question you do not mention this date of July 19th. My understanding was that the querent had no contact to the ambassy's authorities as yet (time of the question). I wonder how came this date into the question at all?
And if "she had written down" [...] "the date and time of said appointment"
her only problem was, not to to be able to get an affirmation of "the appointment number, as well as date and time"?

But this, if your answer would be a yes, would not really concern, I believe.

Johannes
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Horary Chart using the 5th house as embassy Reply with quote

johannes susato wrote:
Hi Clélia,

you worte
Clelia Romano wrote:
The question was: Will I be received for my visa at the French Embassy on July 19th?

and now
Clelia Romano wrote:
Yes, Johannes, she got the visa, in the right day. The appointment´s day and hour was recorded by the embassy.

but in the explanations to the question you do not mention this date of July 19th. My understanding was that the querent had no contact to the ambassy's authorities as yet (time of the question). I wonder how came this date into the question at all?
And if "she had written down" [...] "the date and time of said appointment"
her only problem was, not to to be able to get an affirmation of "the appointment number, as well as date and time"?

But this, if your answer would be a yes, would not really concern, I believe.

Johannes


She wrote down but did not printed the internet page, because her printer was out of work. She got insecure and began to check it out in many ways for a month. The embassy´s site did not work, the security guard did not allow her to enter in order to check if the appointment existed in the embassy, so she was concerned if she would be admitted in the day she had wrote down or not.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Horary Chart using the 5th house as embassy Reply with quote

Clelia Romano wrote:
She got insecure and began to check it out in many ways for a month. The embassy´s site did not work, the security guard did not allow her to enter in order to check if the appointment existed in the embassy, so she was concerned if she would be admitted in the day she had wrote down or not.

Many thanks, Clélia!

Johannes
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