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13 by Mark
Martin Gansten wrote:
although a similar technique was invented some fifty years later by German astrologer E. H. Troinski, who called it tertiary directions.
Hi Martin,

I appreciate you actually meant minor directions here as James already stated. Although some people do describe this kind of progression as a type of tertiary progressions:

http://wiki.astro.com/astrowiki/en/Tertiary_Progression

In this method progressing the radix one lunar month represents one year of life. However, wasn't the lunar progression method of Placidus and Troinski slightly different? I cant lay my hands on your book just now but I seem to recall a footnote where you mentioned the time period of one method was based on the lunar synodic cycle and the other based on a different period. Was this its zodiacal return?

Also could you please give the reference where Partridge mentions progressions or minor returns? I assume its somewhere in his Ptolemy/Placidus inspired Opus Reformatum?

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

14 by Martin Gansten
Mark wrote:I appreciate you actually meant minor directions here as James already stated.
What I said was just that Troinski called 'his' technique tertiary directions. This is not the exact technique that Placidus called progressions, but a similar one; the Placidean one may well be known today as minor progressions -- I'm sure you would know that better than I. Placidus' method was based on the synodic month, Troinski's on the tropical month.
Also could you please give the reference where Partridge mentions progressions or minor returns? I assume its somewhere in his Ptolemy/Placidus inspired Opus Reformatum?
Yes, it would be. I'll see if I can find a reference or two.
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

15 by Stellarium
New or full moons in solar return usually refer to significant life changes, for example the loss of a job, retirement, end of a period of study and also more positive changes depending on the tenor of the chart (including natal chart) and time lords, directions etc.

One should not predict death of parents or anyone based only on Solar Return.

I was bored a few months ago and googled my birthdate to see what kind of lives/careers people born on the same day as me had. The purpose of this brief study was basically to see if there were common trends based on major (tight) aspects / sign positions in operation on the day of birth. There were quite a large number of sportspeople (ice hockey players, NFL, etc) probably related to a tight Sun-Mars square. Then I came across a US soldier who had died in action in Afghanistan in 2011. The Solar Return for our birthday contained a full Moon (don't know his exact time of birth but allowing an orb of 12-13 degrees for a new Moon would make it operative for most of the day) with both lights afflicted by Mars. I did get a painful foot injury in 2011 but the significant life change for me was graduation and conclusion of my studies.

The point is that there is no 'one size fits all' delineation of a Solar Return and a lot of factors have to be considered.

16 by Martin Gansten
Mark wrote:Also could you please give the reference where Partridge mentions progressions or minor returns? I assume its somewhere in his Ptolemy/Placidus inspired Opus Reformatum?
I had a quick look, and they are mentioned on pp. 45-46, though in no great detail. I don't know if Partridge dealt with them elsewhere. There had been other Placidean authors in England, of course, including Bishop and Kirby; but I can't recall Worsdale mentioning them. Partridge seems to have been more or less the only other astrologer Worsdale had any time for.
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

17 by san
Ile wrote:Hi SAN,

Can you please give the reference of the thing that Sun and Moon conjunct in Solar Return brings death to one of the parents?
I have it too this year so it would be very good to know the source of the saying and how much believable is.

I agree with the point Tom made. I also use the 3 indicators 'rule'.

Hi Ile,

I am sorry for late reaction. I forgot that I have posted this subject on forum that's why.
Answer to your question: I read about Sun & Moon conjunction in an very old Dutch book named : "Astrologishe chronologie" from the author Cornelise Gorter.

I know this information would not help you much because the book is not to find translated to English unfortunately.

Metonic Cycle

18 by astralwanderer
Hi there - this is a rather old thread. However, you might want to consider looking at the NM 19 years prior to the one in your solar return. Essentially, there should be a NM very close to the solar return that occurred 19 years ago (i.e. 19 years before the one that currently interests you).

This is the Metonic cycle, and after 19 years, the Sun and the Moon return to the same degrees of the zodiac on the same day of the year. If you have a NM on or about the solar return, it is likely to be a significant lunation in the Metonic cycle. Similar themes may occur at both lunations.

Note that this is not the same as the nodal return cycle, of about 18.6 years. The metonic cycle links lunations, which may or may not be eclipses, rather than linking eclipses, which is the Saros cycle.

I don't know if using the Metonic cycle in this way is an ancient technique, but certainly the Metonic cycle has been known about since classical times.

All the best. Ed

19 by margherita
The last day of 2012 Rita Levi Montalcini, the Italian Nobel-prize winner died at the age of 103. (pictures from Phasis)

She had in her solar return Sun/Moon conjunction (hers is a night chart)
Image
and a mundane opposition between Mars/Sun
Image
Obviously I don't think someone can die with a moon/sun conjunction, but we know that the Sun can be an anareta
When the moon is the prorogator, the place of the sun also destroys.
In Montalcini's chart the Moon is in the 6th house, but not so far from the Descendant, and the chart is nocturnal.

Montalcini data http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lev ... cini,_Rita

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

20 by san
Dear astrology friends,

I posted the question about solar return aspect sun moon conjunction in 4th house on the forum somewhere in may this year because I had a feeling that I will loose one of my parents this year.

Your comment that it needs to be at least 3 significations for it is probably true. Only I didn't find the third one.
This Sun/Moon conjunction is in 4th house and the Moon is the lord of solar return 10th house.
My mother died just a couple of days ago. :(

It is so scary to see that astrology really works.

21 by cor scorpii
Very sorry to hear that :(

If it is a nocturnal chart, then the Moon is the natural ruler of mother as well and combustion is the worst that can happen to the lesser light (or any other planet for that matter) - especially in one of the houses having universal signification toward endings/death.

Would it be too much to ask for the birth chart data?

Regards,
Goran
Last edited by cor scorpii on Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://7heavenastrology.wordpress.com
http://klasicnaastrologija.wordpress.com

22 by san
" the combustion is the worst that can happen to the lesser light (or any other planet for that matter) - specially in one of the houses having universal signification toward endings/death."

Hi Goran,

thanks for your message and compassion because it still pains a lot..

Interesting, what you have just mentioned about "the combustion". I didn't know that.

here are my birth data's.
I was born in Sremska Mitrovica (Serbia) but I live in Holland so the solar chart is for the place where I live = Nijmegen, Holland.

12 January 1974 at 13:10

23 by james_m
hi san,

my condolences on the loss of your mother.

thanks for sharing your personal data so that others can learn more about astrology.

i suppose there are a number of ways one can make a connection between the natal chart and a solar return. while some might view the solar return chart as a stand alone chart, i find it helpful to consider the natal chart as well. with the data you have shared - the sun/mercury in cap in your natal chart is in the 8th house by whole sign houses. the conjunction in the return lands in the natal 8th, while the saturn- mars square in the return chart connects directly to the midheaven axis via conjunction/square.. the sun rules the 4th house using the midheaven axis. mercury rules the whole sign 4th.. the degree of the return moon is exactly conjunct natal mercury. there are many connections and i would say all of these connections back to the natal chart are suggestive, not just the sun/moon conjunction in the 4th house of the return chart.

if given a choice, i prefer using the natal chart as the primary chart and overlapping the data from the return onto the natal chart. perhaps someone can read a solar return chart independent of the natal chart, but it doesn't make as much sense to me to do that.

thanks so much for sharing..

24 by san
"my condolences on the loss of your mother"

Thank you!

"thanks for sharing your personal data so that others can learn more about astrology"

you are most welcome together with others on this site!
I know how important it is for the study of astrology.

I agree about considering the natal chart as primary chart. Nothing in solar chart has a value or can stand alone without connections from the natal.
I was just confused that I couldn't find more connections.

I never use the whole sign houses system because I doubt if we then maybe going "to far" ? in our research to prove what happened..

If we want we can always find more than one significant aspect so, we could never predict anything with any certainty.. however thanks for sharing James I learn to look from other points of view as well.

p.s. to be honest don't like my chart when using the whole sign house system. :roll:
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