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Solar Fire and Janus can be configured to use Naibod. And Kolev's program Placidus will allow it and every other known key. I have a copy of Morinus software, but I rarely look at it. It seems that program only uses a key for one degree = one year of life (Ptolemy). Naibod uses the mean annual motion of the Sun 59' 08" of arc = 1 year. I think that number is right. Since the number is smaller the "hits" will occur later than they will using 1 degree = 1 year since it takes more segments to get there, i.e. more 1 year periods to cover the same distance. As the native gets older the time period for hits between Naibod and Ptolemy increases.

So if you want to eyeball it, look at the one degree per year directions, check the date the hit occurs and add "a bit" to that for Naibod. That's not terribly scientific, but it might help you understand.

For example. George Patton Venus converse to the MC: using 1 degree = 1 year of life (Ptolemy) this hit occurs on Oct 9, 1942. However when we use Naibod the same hit occurs on Aug 7 1943 - 10 months later.

Martin Thank you. I had just pulled out Book 22 of AG when you posted this. I'll adjust my file of his chart accordingly.

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damon wrote:It seems you use PDs Ptolemy style cause I cant find Saturn or Moon making evil aspect Mars with my software.
No, Tom is right: using modern software, Mars is directed to the opposition of the Moon in 1656 with Regiomontanus/Naibod, both with and without latitude. The Ptolemaic/Placidean arc of direction is several degrees/years shorter.
Tom wrote:Solar Fire and Janus can be configured to use Naibod. And Kolev's program Placidus will allow it and every other known key. I have a copy of Morinus software, but I rarely look at it. It seems that program only uses a key for one degree = one year of life (Ptolemy).
Actually, Morinus (the freeware) has a number of keys to choose from, including Naibod. (There is another Morinus, designed by Wim van Dam, but I don't think that was the one you meant, was it?)
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

15
I was wrong about Morinus, the program. On the drop down menu of version 3.5 right below "Primary Directions" is an option to choose one of several keys. My mistake.

First chart

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Hello.

Probably the moderatos remember I am not very expert in ancient astrology. I post a few pictures on this thread because, for my own studies, using the program Morinus I investigated on Morin's death. Perhaps the images I have will be in your interest. Excuse me for the modern planets. For my part, I'll add a few technical note.

The first, important note, is all the marked positions are attainable with their numeric values too, which are very close to get perfect aspects.
The second is the charts are according to the direct motion (no converse).

To be sure no picture will be lost, I'll send three different posts. The first is in graphic shape what the traditional PDs in mundo are in tabled mode. I hope everybody will be able to recognize his/her father even if with ... new trousers :-).
Image
You know better then me the role each planet has in this context.

Settings in Morinus
PDs: Both, in mundo and in zodiac
Technique: Semiarc
Key: Ptolemy
Terrestrial PDs in chart: \secondary motion included
Of course other settings are available.

Roberto
Last edited by robhywolf on Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Second chart

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Hello again.

The second graph is cast in zodiac, with PDs technique. As I know, no PDs charts in zodiac existed in the past, till the software programs permitted to cast them according to different assumptions, and strictly speakingit the following chart is the less traditional one (sorry). If not welcome I'll remove it.

As you can see, in this way the opposition Mars-Saturn in zodiac is very clear, just like the Sun-Jupiter situation. What is new is the position Venus has in the directed, external chart. According to the primum mobile motion, it reached the 8th house from the 9th place. The dark, vertical area is under the local horizon.
Image
Settings in Morinus
Celestial PDs in chart: full pseudo-astronomic mode\secondary motion included
Key: Ptolemy
Other settings are available.

Roberto
Last edited by robhywolf on Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:09 am, edited 4 times in total.

Third chart

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Hello.

The last image is for the ingresses.

Note the axis of the mean lunar nodes over the meridian (difference two degrees) and the almuten again on the 8th cusp, this time according to the secondary motion in the real time, *two days* later Morin died. Just a coincidence?

Image
Of course you can play with different settings (Regio domification, Naibod Key, rectification or other) trying to get something better, but it's really possible to discover the time of the death with the accuracy of one hour?

Even if not expert in ancient techniques, the three above charts appear me a strong indication that for Morin it was the proper moment to die.

Regards,
Roberto

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Just came across this post.

I have a book in Franch by Jean Hi?roz (1943), "Ma Vie devant les Astres", a sort of short astrological biography drawing on the AG and the "chroniqueur" of Morin's life, which I presume refers to the anonymous biography published in 1660, "La Vie de maistre Jean-Baptiste Morin, docteur en m?decine et professeur royal aux math?matiques ? Paris ". It includes reproductions of Morin's charts from AG.

Morin was born in the centre ("within the fortifications") of the town of Villefranche-sur-Sa?ne ("Francopoli Bellerocentrum") (45?N59' / 04?E43), just north-west of Lyon. As Martin calculates, Hi?roz gives 8:33 LAT on 23/2/1583 (but Martin's geographical guess is a bit off). As Martin says, Morin gives his times by the 24 hour clock starting with previous LAT noon. I think the confusion with the 22nd is that he also (and first) gives chart of the syzygy (New Moon) on the 22nd at 9:43 (i.e. 21:43 from noon on 21st).

According to Hi?roz, Morin used directions from radix, SR, LR, directions from the latter two, transits and elections.

Hi?roz gives, for M's death, the "direction of Jupiter significator, ruler of 8 in 12, to the square of Saturn promissor, ruler of MC and also in 12". (I haven't checked this).
He also gives the SR, directions to SR (SR MC comes to square with radix and SR Moon; ASC comes to conj Moon SR (ruler of 8) and opposite radix Moon); and transits (involving Jupiter, Saturn and Mars).

But he apologises for not having been able to calculate what he considers the clincher, the LR ("la r?volution lunaire mortif?re") which according to the chronicler, had so frightened Morin the previous month. I looked at this, and as Tom said, the most notable feature is the partile conjunction of the LR ASC and South Node in Cancer, but Tom says Morin did not much attend to the nodes - the exception which proves the rule? There is also the LR MC in radix 12 with LR Moon, and Saturn which has just entered Libra (H6 of illness) to join Mars, opposing H1 radix. LR Mercury partile quincunx to radix ASC from Scorpio, with Venus and Sun. LR Jupiter in LR 12, as Tom pointed out.

Graham
Last edited by Graham F on Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Using Morin' data in Morinus software.
Regio + Naibod key.

I get Zodiacal sq Sat(promissor) to Sun(signifactor) = 72.567 = 1656.10.17

which is not too far away.

For famous people adverse directions relating to MC can be an indicator of death.Saturn is affecting Sun.


Why was Morin so mortified ?

Last time when Mars was zod. sq Moon at age 12(11.435 =1594.09.30) his mother died.
Moon is the 4th lord and this could be the reason why morin thought 4th is house of mother.
When saturn's directon to sun showed up(with no father around) and sun in 12th- he must have thought that it would be him or some severe affliction to his reputation.

PD

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When Saturn's direction to sun showed up(with no father around) and sun in 12th- he must have thought that it would be him or some severe affliction to his reputation.
Morin had no problems using exaltation rulers. Aries rises in his chart and the Sun is the exaltation ruler of the ASC. A direction to the exaltation ruler of the ASC could easily be seen as a threat to the native from disease (12th house). He also saw the Sun as the life force particularly if it were connected to the ascendant.