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bruce lee natal chart
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AstroNovice



Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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Location: United States

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:34 am    Post subject: bruce lee natal chart Reply with quote

Is his time of birth correct? I saw that it is AA rated, but bruce lees natal chart when viewed using WSH doesn't look very good at all. Nearly all of his planets are in the 12th or 6th house. Either this means that his birthtime might be wrong (unlikely?), or that the whole sign house system itself may not always tell the complete story. I think his chart makes more sense if we assume he was born at an earlier time and is instead a scorpio ascendant. Of course this is all conjecture from me, I havent looked closely into his chart to be able to make a strong argument either way. Has anyone else here studied bruce lees chart indepth?
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

who ever said any house system was going to tell the whole story? astrology is always a combination of many factors.

i think the chart is valid. i have run some events to it in the past, but it was a number of years ago. sun directly on the ascendant 120 pluto makes sense. the guy exuded power in the movies he was in! mars/pluto square with mars in scorpio also makes sense. sun/moon midpoint = uranus certainly seems in keeping with the man as well.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lee,_Bruce
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zoidsoft



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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Sag rising with the Sun on the ascendant fits him very well. He was a philosopher first, martial artist second. Mars in the Gauquelin + zone too.
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Marius Cojoc



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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

msg deleted

Last edited by Marius Cojoc on Sat May 03, 2014 1:51 am; edited 2 times in total
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dragonqueen



Joined: 22 Jun 2013
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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It certainly fits,with Mars in Scvorpio for martial arts and 8th ruler in 12th(mysterious death)
But I dont agree with James on using many factos,cause eventually one will always fit the chart. We should learn something from skeptics.
As far as I know he died in 1973 when Saturn was in late gemini approaching his 8th place of death in ancient astrology,square neptune MC, wasnt it?
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dragonqueen



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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and died in moon-saturn firdaria
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dragonqueen wrote:

But I dont agree with James on using many factos,cause eventually one will always fit the chart.


i especially hope you follow and apply this insight dg!
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AstroNovice



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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, those are pretty good points everyone. I do agree with the sun conjunct ascendant being fairly descriptive of bruce lee's physical strength, although I'm still puzzled how bruce lee became so famous though with so many of his planets in cadent houses. I mean yeah, we can account for his physical prowess through gauquelin sectors and sun conjunct asc, but as for his fame, I just don't see it. I mean, normally you should expect some serious angular activity in a prominent nativity right? And bruce lees only angular planet isn't configured with anything else in his chart so I don't know if it would really "count".

For me at least, in spite of me being a BIG fan of whole sign houses, I do think that sometimes they are not fully representative of the potential of a chart, I think that quadrant can show a lot of information about the nativity too. What do you all think?
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zoidsoft



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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes fame has to do with the sequence of time lord activation. But if you look at the lots, the lot of exaltation hands over to fortune and lords of spirit and basis in the 7th from fortune and the lord of fortune is co-present. I'm not sure when he became "famous", but there are many instances when a releasing from spirit comes to the 10th from fortune that one becomes more visible and noticed (This could be Virgo or Leo in Bruce Lee's chart depending on whether you follow Valens advice about lots falling amiss).

I noticed that Mandela reached his 10th from fortune just as he was released from prison in early 1990 (Capricorn). That was a defining moment for him, but in general Mandela had a hard life and the chart shows this.
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

first off - mandelas chart is rated DD.. commenting on DD charts seems fruitless to me.

bruce lee was an actor - strong sun on the ascendant could account for a chunk of this. bruce lee also has neptune conjunct the midheaven, with neptune having an association with acting as well as i understand it. it doesn't matter what house system a person uses in so far as the sun and neptune are in the 1st and 10th regardless. i think anyone who puts an over-reliance on any one particular part to astrology - signs, houses, planets, aspects - will make erroneous conclusions.. astrology interpretation is a balancing of all of these ingredients.
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zoidsoft



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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In regards to the sequence of time lords, the reason why this is important is because momentum can be either gained or lost. Valens says that when the winds are contrary that the period can become malefic (even when natural benefics have the times which indicates something good that messes up the plan). Schmidt has said that this is a metaphor for "rocking the boat" within the context of the nautical metaphor; that if one has had a prevailing north wind and then suddenly a south wind takes over, there is risk of overturning the ship unless the sail masters can adjust quickly.

When counting the time lord succession through the levels, it is important to note whether the planet taking up the times maintains the same wind direction or whether it overturns it or whether there is a mix (I do this by hovering over the planet glyphs in Delphic Oracle which state the winds after double clicking on the time lord sequences list or graph and look for intensifications of the wind (transits).) When Delphic Oracle 4 came out in 2006 I had a "hat trick" where 4 levels were of the same wind (descending south) were ruled by 3 different planets that were all of the same wind (Sun, Saturn and Venus) and Aug 14, 2006 was my highest peak.

Another factor to consider is the length of the period, since the longer periods can sustain a greater momentum for longer and there are more "chances" for the sub periods to add to this momentum or subtract from them. These contribute to "how far one gets in life" quite literally.
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zoidsoft



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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
first off - mandelas chart is rated DD.. commenting on DD charts seems fruitless to me.


I have the 2:54 pm time. Usually when the time is stated that precisely it is more accurate, but this post is to illustrate the technique, and not primarily focused on Mandela. But looking at the chart, it seems to be accurate even down to the encounter of Mars in the ZR when he got into all that trouble in the late 50's and early 60's and went to prison. I'd like to read more of Mandela's biography to be sure.
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AstroNovice



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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zoidsoft wrote:
Sometimes fame has to do with the sequence of time lord activation. But if you look at the lots, the lot of exaltation hands over to fortune and lords of spirit and basis in the 7th from fortune and the lord of fortune is co-present. I'm not sure when he became "famous", but there are many instances when a releasing from spirit comes to the 10th from fortune that one becomes more visible and noticed (This could be Virgo or Leo in Bruce Lee's chart depending on whether you follow Valens advice about lots falling amiss).

I noticed that Mandela reached his 10th from fortune just as he was released from prison in early 1990 (Capricorn). That was a defining moment for him, but in general Mandela had a hard life and the chart shows this.


thats true, I was suspecting that there could be some "hidden fame" via his various lots.

by the way, when you refer to reaching a 10th from fortune period, what exactly do you mean? On aphesis when I look at the time periods for releasing from fortune the time spans are so massive, I don't think anybody could live long enough to experience a releasing from 10th house of POF. Are you referring to the subperiods? Or have I misunderstood the concept completely?
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Mandela,_Nelson

Frances McEvoy reported that her son and daughter-in-law spent a summer in South Africa with the Kennedy Foundation as lawyers. During an afternoon in the entourage of Mandela, they asked his birth time and were told "afternoon." Noel Tyl wrote in May/1994 that he rectified the afternoon time with extremely taxing detail to 2:54 PM, then shared his documentation with Rod Suskin, a well-known South African astrologer who responded with "a veritable catalogue of reinforcement for the time."

South African astrologer Anita Noyes-Smith has a friend in Mandela's office who checked for a time and found that there is no known time of birth. Umtata is a rural area and blacks had no birth certificates. Often, they did not even know the date as it was not valued as important. Himself said 2:45 (Cedra database).

(Formerly, Noel Tyl had speculated 8:45 AM, given in AFANews 1/1994. Daniela Schmuckli had a spec time of 12:45 PM in Astrolog 6/1996. Anita Noyes-Smith speculated 2:12 AM.)

Starkman rectified it to 14.51.32 EET
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zoidsoft



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Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm inclined to think Mandela's chart might be right. It fits what Valens says about the emancipation of slaves (not only that it is the encounter of the domicile lord Sag -> Jupiter in Cancer). The 27 years of prison lines up fairly well with the 12th Scorpio (15 years) and Sag period (12 years) = 27. Valens says that when the times prepare to become malefic, they do so shortly before the actual onset.

But if the time is off, it could be one of the other 27 "lock tumblers" that got tripped: http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/mysteryof27.html


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