Mjacob wrote:Ib'n Ezra alone as far as I am aware states that a planet in the last degree of a sign is already in the next sign too. She is still in the combust way but look at the aspects from the first degree here. The result could be interesting

Hello Mjacob, if you refer to chapter 8, 35) then Ibn Ezra does not claim "the planet at the end of a sign" to be IN the next sign, but, to be precise, only that "it loses its strength and all of its power is in the sign it will enter [next]."

Fleur wrote:I told her that a horary chart can be unreadable because of via combusta Moon, [... ]After doing the chart I explained that the chart wasn't readable, because it was the wrong time to answer the question, not that she wouldn't pass her university course.
[...]
I have a feeling there is a horary rule about the Moon in the 29th degree of a sign as well?

Hello Fleur, can you explain, where you have read that the Moon in via combusta makes the chart ureadable, please?

At least Lilly does not seem to be of this opinion, making the via combusta more to be the problem of "some" others. But as to your feeling concerning "the Moon in the 29th of a sign" he seems to be even more stricter, speaking of the later degrees of a sign. See William Lilly, CA, p. 122:

"It?s not safe to judge when the MO is in the later degrees of a
Signe, especially in Gemini Scorpio or Capricorne; or as some say,
when she is in Via Combusta , which is, when she is in the last
15 degrees of Libra, or the first fifteen degrees of Scorpio."

Tara wrote:I'll repeat what I wrote in 2008 above in answer to your question, Johannes.

As you could easily see by comparing the data and the names, John, whose question you answered, is not me, and John's question and your answer were before I became a member of this forum at all.

But thanks for your answer anyway, Tara.

johannes susato wrote: Hello Fleur, can you explain, where you have read that the Moon in via combusta makes the chart ureadable, please?

I'm not Fleur, but some modern authors attest that it is a 'stricture before judgement' which suggests that the chart cannot be read if the moon is in the via combusta. I can find some examples if you want.

Paul wrote:I'm not Fleur, [...]

I say? I would never ever have hit on that!

To be earnest again and to be honest, it would be a pleasure if you could provide those quotations you have in mind, especially the justifications of these opinions, if there were any.

Thank you in advance, Paul.

johannes susato wrote:

Mjacob wrote:Ib'n Ezra alone as far as I am aware states that a planet in the last degree of a sign is already in the next sign too. She is still in the combust way but look at the aspects from the first degree here. The result could be interesting

Hello Mjacob, if you refer to chapter 8, 35) then Ibn Ezra does not claim "the planet at the end of a sign" to be IN the next sign, but, to be precise, only that "it loses its strength and all of its power is in the sign it will enter [next]."

I reread it in its entirety and my paraphrase is accurate. You are free to disagree with him if you like just as you free to misunderstand a single sentence. if it helps you the border between signs is a line with no breadth and the moon is a disc with a diameter ie breadth. No me credo circumspice
MJ

In the meantime we could consider the opinion of Lilly and a quotation of Frawley. The latter seems to be very interesting with regard to the examination question above.

William Lilly in his CA seems to mention via combusta four times.

First, at page 122, where he defines it and in my view refers only to the opinion of some others, him insinuating not to share this opinion, as Sue Ward has carved out rightly.

Second, at p. 415, where he does not even mention the fact of the Moon's being in via combusta.

Third, the same at p. 495. (wrong page, correction soon!)

Fourth, at p. 440, where Lilly, even though he states, that the Moon is entering via combusta (the Moon being at 13.37 Libra), gives his judgement without mentioning any problems because of this fact.

John Frawley, The Horary Textbook, p. 66: "Being here does not make the Moon any weaker, but does distress it." And: "[...] the Moon's passage through the via combusta shows a period of unpleasant emotional turbulence."

Mjacob wrote:

johannes susato wrote:

Mjacob wrote:Ib'n Ezra alone as far as I am aware states that a planet in the last degree of a sign is already in the next sign too. She is still in the combust way but look at the aspects from the first degree here. The result could be interesting

Hello Mjacob, if you refer to chapter 8, 35) then Ibn Ezra does not claim "the planet at the end of a sign" to be IN the next sign, but, to be precise, only that "it loses its strength and all of its power is in the sign it will enter [next]."

I reread it in its entirety and my paraphrase is accurate. You are free to disagree with him if you like just as you free to misunderstand a single sentence. if it helps you the border between signs is a line with no breadth and the moon is a disc with a diameter ie breadth. No me credo circumspice
MJ

Your are simply wrong claiming I would disagree with Ibn Ezra (because I did not say anything like that), or I would misunderstand a single sentence.

But I think Ibn Ezra would deserve to be quoted correctly, what I have done verbatim, not only paraphrasing his text. I had hoped you would have quoted him now or had said at least, where you find this statement.

So I quote the whole paragraph now so that you can see that he does not say what you still claim.

Please understand that in my opinion the hint you gave as to this statement of Ibn Ezra is very interesting, but I wanted to clarify the little but important difference between his text and your paraphrase.

Ibn Ezra, The Beginning of Wisdom, Translated by Meira B. Epstein, chapter 8, nr. 35, p. 131:

"When a planet is at the end of a sign, it looses its strength and all of
its power is in the sign it will enter [next]. If the planet is at the 29th
degree of the sign, its influence is still in the sign it is in, because
within 3 degrees the planet has influence in the degree it is in, one
degree before and one degree after."

Thank you Johannes,
The chart Fleur shows has Luna in the 30th degree and I took it that she occupies three degrees so one of them is the first of the next sign. Maybe I am just stating my own opinion here but the moon is never stationary nor retrograde as we know so I say she is applying already to the aspects from the next sign
Only example charts with known results can be the final arbiter here if I may express another opinion
Regards to you
MJ

ps in the forward Robert Hand mentions this aphorism as rare example where out of sign aspects are allowed. #35 mentions the 29th degree and I am talking about the 30th. Do the math then see #36 for the context please

johannes susato wrote:

William Lilly in his CA seems to mention via combusta four times.

This is a fine example of Lilly laying out the rules in the front part of the book, then being guided by the rules rather than adhering strictly to them as he gives examples.

In general, 17th century English astrologers seem to regard Via Combusta
as a debility, or impediment, but not as a reason not to judge the chart at all.

Amongst modern astrologers, Barbara Watters stated in her book that after many years of ignoring the cautions against judgement, she decided that after all, there was something to them and turned them into 'strictures' against judgement, of which Moon being Via Combusta was one.

Geoffrey Cornelius has concluded that the only reason horary astrology (in particular) works is that it is divinely inspired. That it, when we interpret an astrological chart we are guided to broader awareness of the world about us by a "greater intelligence" - which may be a Daemon, or Guardian Angel, as your fancy takes you. Cornelius goes on to comment that - not unreasonably - there may be times when it is not be to our advantage to have the knowledge we seek. And so the natural role of Cautions against Judgement is to mark out the boundary of what we should know, and what we should not.

In this particular case, the chart which sparked off the question was set over six years ago now and we might expect that some development of the situation had happened since then. Too, the relationship of the question to the querent is not clear. Why should the querent be concerned about a possible development in Uzes, France? What role is the Moon actually playing in the actual or underlaying question?

See Marsha'allah's On Reception
A question concerning an ill person has a VOC moon at the 27th degree of Aries aspecting Mercury in the 2nd degree of Aquarius on the basis that it moves quickly into the next sign


Oddly though Robert Hand puts the moon at 28 degrees 37' whilst Dykes has 26 37 and Hand edited the ARHAT Ezra

MJ

ps it occurs to me that we are drifting off-topic. It is VC not VOC that is the subject

I teach that the Via Combust or the Fiery Way is like the 'Bumpy Road' or Bumpy Way. It is like the turbulence that an Aircraft may hit as it speeds across the Sky, or the waves that a boat or water-scooter may hit at it jets across the water. It gives a choppy Journey.

Further, that the degrees of Spica offer protection, that the Via Combust begins in the degee of the Sun's fall at 19 Libra, although the 15 or 16th degree of Libra has a Uranian influence, as may well also 15 Scorpio. The Via Combust may be divided into two; those 15 degrees that lead up unto the degree of the fall of the Moon, and those that lie from 4 Scorpio and up to 19 Scorpio, which I term the 'Gift Box'. This is because these degrees often seem to involve some important discovery, as a planet or the Moon is placed in this sector of the Sky upon the discovery of the Outer Planets.

I conceive that the 19th degree of Scorpio, being the Cursed Degree, may be a cuspal thing - as a planet moves out of the Via Combust and drops out of the Gift Box. This is just my opinion and approach to the problem and I don't mind other people having a different opinion. There is room for people to gather and share their thoughts with the working of these degree in various charts.