7th house and foreign travel

1
has anybody personally observed the 7th house having some sort of connection to foreign travel? I mean I don't doubt that the concept is valid at all, I guess its just hard for me to accept foreign travel being in the domain of the 7th house after having accepted foreign travel as a 9th house matter for so long. Also, surely there must be some sort of qualitative difference between 9th house foreign travel and 7th house foreign travel?

For me personally I have seen a couple of charts (both natal and solar return) where 7th house placements corresponded with people going on foreign travels/or at least heavily desiring to, but the sample size is too small, so I was hoping somebody else could maybe confirm or deny my observations.

2
Hi,

Actually, the 7th is treated as the destination of foreign travel in al-Kindi and Hephaistion of Thebes, both of whom would have gotten it from Dorotheus (Carmen V.21), so you are in good company in seeing it in a chart! The idea is that the Ascendant represents home, while the 7th is as far away as you can get.
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3
Ben wrote: Actually, the 7th is treated as the destination of foreign travel in al-Kindi and Hephaistion of Thebes, both of whom would have gotten it from Dorotheus (Carmen V.21), so you are in good company in seeing it in a chart! The idea is that the Ascendant represents home, while the 7th is as far away as you can get.
There are different kinds of foreign travel, I think. If you are forced to go abroad for different reasons, as a refugee for example, is one thing, and if you are going on a holiday to a foreign country is quite another thing. I have often wondered to what extent foreign travel in traditional texts refer to the first kind where you are forced abroad. This kind of travel could belong to the 7th house. If on the other hand you are going abroad on a holiday just to enjoy yourself is quite a different kind of travel. Should this kind of travel rather belong to the 5th house? Then again if you are travelling abroad in order to learn something about the country you are going to could belong to the 9th house.

Just a thought.

ea

4
ea wrote:
Ben wrote: Actually, the 7th is treated as the destination of foreign travel in al-Kindi and Hephaistion of Thebes, both of whom would have gotten it from Dorotheus (Carmen V.21), so you are in good company in seeing it in a chart! The idea is that the Ascendant represents home, while the 7th is as far away as you can get.
There are different kinds of foreign travel, I think. If you are forced to go abroad for different reasons, as a refugee for example, is one thing, and if you are going on a holiday to a foreign country is quite another thing. I have often wondered to what extent foreign travel in traditional texts refer to the first kind where you are forced abroad. This kind of travel could belong to the 7th house. If on the other hand you are going abroad on a holiday just to enjoy yourself is quite a different kind of travel. Should this kind of travel rather belong to the 5th house? Then again if you are travelling abroad in order to learn something about the country you are going to could belong to the 9th house.

Just a thought.

ea
I believe that the 12th house is for forced foreign travel, like if you are a refugee. At least this is what they believe in vedic astrology

5
Ben wrote:Hi,

Actually, the 7th is treated as the destination of foreign travel in al-Kindi and Hephaistion of Thebes, both of whom would have gotten it from Dorotheus (Carmen V.21), so you are in good company in seeing it in a chart! The idea is that the Ascendant represents home, while the 7th is as far away as you can get.
thanks for your input ben :)

6
It is unsurprising, actually. If you read the article "Facets of Fate" by Robert Schmidt, you'll see that he mentioned at least four houses (iirc) in connection with foreign travel: 3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th. Similarly, for the topic of children, there are several houses, namely: 4th, 5th, 10th, 11th. We also have several houses for evaluating the topic of partners (or wives); I think it's 4th, 7th, and 10th. Even for death, we have the 8th, 7th and 4th. For illness/injuries, the 6th and 12th. And so on.

These associations apparently came from the Hellenistic texts.

So...well, there isn't just one house for each topic. This makes things more complicated, but I believe that if we strive to understand the specific qualities of each house associated with the same topic, we can give a richer reading to clients and friends. On one hand, we have complications, but on the other, we have flavour. It's a give and take.

Indeed, the quality or "kind" of travel is different with different houses. Schmidt explained some of the differences in his article.
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7
Larxene wrote:It is unsurprising, actually. If you read the article "Facets of Fate" by Robert Schmidt, you'll see that he mentioned at least four houses (iirc) in connection with foreign travel: 3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th. Similarly, for the topic of children, there are several houses, namely: 4th, 5th, 10th, 11th. We also have several houses for evaluating the topic of partners (or wives); I think it's 4th, 7th, and 10th. Even for death, we have the 8th, 7th and 4th. For illness/injuries, the 6th and 12th. And so on.

These associations apparently came from the Hellenistic texts.

So...well, there isn't just one house for each topic. This makes things more complicated, but I believe that if we strive to understand the specific qualities of each house associated with the same topic, we can give a richer reading to clients and friends. On one hand, we have complications, but on the other, we have flavour. It's a give and take.

Indeed, the quality or "kind" of travel is different with different houses. Schmidt explained some of the differences in his article.
thanks larxene, that was an excellent article and cleared up a few things for me.

8
Larxene wrote:It is unsurprising, actually. If you read the article "Facets of Fate" by Robert Schmidt, you'll see that he mentioned at least four houses (iirc) in connection with foreign travel: 3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th.
Thank you, Larxene. Now that you mention it I remember having read that too. It does make sense, even if chart reading is more complex with several houses indicating the same thing. I'll try to get hold of this article by Robert Schmidt. It sounds very helpful.

ea

9
You're welcome, AstroNovice and ea. :)

A large part of the significations seem to be based on the diurnal and planetary motions.

I only vaguely remember the distinction between the houses of travel. The 12th signifies perilous journeys where there is a possibility of dying or receiving life-threatening injuries. The 6th signifies a similarly dangerous journey, but one that at most leads to injuries that are not life-threatening. The 9th seems to be about journeys to find guidance in life, or journeys on the order of one's king or superior. I forgot what the 3rd signifies.

The distinction between the houses of children is intriguing too; however, their effects seem to be non-stacking, just like the houses of travel. So it is not as easy to count the number of children when taking into account all houses...cuz you can't just add the testimonies and divide them.
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10
Larxene wrote: I only vaguely remember the distinction between the houses of travel. The 12th signifies perilous journeys where there is a possibility of dying or receiving life-threatening injuries. The 6th signifies a similarly dangerous journey, but one that at most leads to injuries that are not life-threatening. The 9th seems to be about journeys to find guidance in life, or journeys on the order of one's king or superior. I forgot what the 3rd signifies.
Thank you for elaborating, Larxene. One problem here with the 6th and the 12th houses though is that you don't necessarily have to go on a journey to get injured or sick :-? .

ea

11
The way I understand it is that all the cadent places indicate a moving away from the situation or the places of activity - so all the cadent places suggest something away from centre stage. So the cadent houses represent any kind of travel or movement like that. In particular 3 and 9, with aspects to to the ascendant, represent this idea of travel.

However the 7th, rather than being travel itself per se, represents the place opposite to what you know or opposite to the current situation. So can be the destination that one travels to, or could be the 'other' place.
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12
If you mean whether transiting planets in the seventh house relate to foreign travel, maybe this is to do with their making square aspects to planets in the fourth house, so they represent changes of abode, albeit temporarily?