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Astrology and false-Astrology
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Eka



Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 5

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:12 pm    Post subject: Astrology and false-Astrology Reply with quote

Astrology and false-Astrology.
( exposing the deception of false astrologers)



As we know Astrology is a spiritual science and as a knowledge it always belonged only to the spiritual grade of people. World is falling to his spiritual degradation and Kali- Yuga (Dark Age) is called so, because it is a time when ignorance predominates a more and now all those who are not supposed to, are meddle in this spiritual science, calling themselves by astrologers have no right on it. Nowadays almost anyone can practice astrology, her crazy version if more correctly say, where the basic principles of the laws Being are not complied. This is nothing surprising, because for practicing astrology is necessary to understand these laws, and also to obtain secret spiritual knowledge, which can not be given to a wide audience. Now about everything in sequence, as the matter mind understand information better when it’is given on the points for him, then further we go to the points of the astrological deception present days:

1. There is no relocation. This false method used for constructing astrological chart those who does not have a true knowledge.

First you need to define what is the individual soul for which constructed birth chart.
The soul is a motionless particle of Motionless God it’s an undeniable law of the scriptures.
The soul is pure, eternal and unlimited as a God, but staying in materia it is bound by the Maya ( illusion), which is the own energy of God. Soul perceives this world, created by illusion through the senses, organs of action and the subtle consciousness. And bound upon illusion manifestations of sound, touch, form, taste and smell, as well as a variety of energy it accepts as its own, and all these transformations are the effects of God’s energy (also called Shakti). And if soul is stationary and do not move, that means there is no relocation of true astrology, and in the birth chart we need to watch the movement of consciousness. Judge for yourself common sense, as it is possible to perceive moving objects while being on the move ??

it is given below a good example how Swami Vivekanda describes it:

«…The mind and body are like two layers in the same substance, moving at different rates of speed. Relatively, one being slower and the other quicker, we can distinguish between the two motions. For instance, a train is in motion, and a carriage is moving alongside it. It is possible to find the motion of both these to a certain extent. But still something else is necessary. Motion can only be perceived when there is something else which is not moving. But when two or three things are relatively moving, we first perceive the motion of the faster one, and then that of the slower ones. How is the mind to perceive? It is also in a flux. Therefore another thing is necessary which moves more slowly, then you must get to something in which the motion is still slower, and so on, and you will find no end. Therefore logic compels you to stop somewhere. You must complete the series by knowing something which never changes. Behind this never-ending chain of motion is the Purusha, the changeless, the colourless, the pure..» (SWAMI VIVEKANANDA PATANJALI YOGA APHORISMS)

And purusha is the soul, particle of God-Purusha, read Vedanta and you know it. About motionless of the soul can be found in Hermeticism prophet Hermes, in Vedanta, in the Gospel, in knowledges surviving in the scriptures that gave the world the prophets or saints. That’s some excerpts of them:

«..Unmoving, It is one, faster than the mind. The senses cannot reach It, for It proceeds ahead. Remaining static It overtakes others that run. On account of Its presence, Matarsiva (the wind) conducts the activities of beings…» ( The Isa-Upanishad)

«..One should contemplate upon Omkara as Ishvara resembling an unshaken light, as of the size of a thumb and as motionless in the middle of the pericarp of the lotus of the heart…» (Dhyana-Bindu Upanishad)

«..I am of the form of all effulgence, I am the effulgence of pure consciousness. I am beyond the three durations (past, present and future) and I am free from passion, etc.
I am above the body and its dweller and I am unique, devoid of attributes. I am beyond liberation, I am liberated and I am always devoid of final emancipation.
I am above truth and untruth, I am always nothing other than pure Existence. I am not obliged to go to any place, being free of movement, etc.
I am always equanimous, I am quiescence, the greatest being (Purushottama); one who has his own experience thus is without doubt myself.»
(Maitreya Upanishad)

That soul is omnipresent, unchangeable and unmoving Krishna says about to Arjuna in Bhagavad-Gita.

of Hermes Trismegist doctrine:

..There is nothing permanent, nothing established, nothing unmoving among the birth, neither in the sky nor on the ground. These qualities inherent only to a God..

..God has always been unmoving, Eternity is unmoving with Him.
And movement is the condition of time..

«.. unmoving, established as a starting point for any movement, it must be in the first place due to its permanence. God and Eternity are the beginning of all things; moving world can not be in the first place…»[/i]

……………………………..
Want to find more, read the scriptures.

As soul is unmoving particle of Unmoving God, then it stays always at one point and watching actions of the pictures of the world, and as it mentioned, so we must be able to see the movement of consciousness in the birth chart. Therefore conclusion - those who use relocation at construction of charts are not a true astrologers. As regards that same point where is the soul, come to the second item:

2. In horoscopes of false-astrology there is no simply that point of the soul location in the space and at construction individual birth charts used coordinates of the city location as it may be for the birth of other thousands at this city, and this is another crazy of pseudo-astrology our days.

Merely precise astrology knowledge is a warped, so that for lack of knowledge has become easier to practice this type of fraud, and therefore used unnecessary planets as that allows to apply in the treatment of personality in astropsychology. After all, true knowledge is given only to a few.

3. The pseudo-astrology used unnecessary planets that are not belong to the planets of individual destiny encode.

Turn to the Vedic knowledge, of Upanishad in the first question of the origin of life and matter, says:

.. «Others call him The Father, who live high above the sky to the south, He pentameter7 and the twelve-sided8..
Others call him the omniscient, who live to the north and having six spokes and seven wheels9..»
____________
7. Five times of Hindu year.
8. 12 months
9. 7 planets..»


Many of those who call themselves astrologers, but in fact they are astrocharlatans who in constructing of birth charts using interpretation contained in texts Brihat-Parasara-Hora-Shastra, and proudly declares they practice of Vedic astrology, but in fact it’s the impudent lie.
After The Maharishi Parasara in their descriptions of construction birthday charts does not use such planets as Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, nor find them in Jaimini Maharishis Sutras!

so in ancient astrology texts of the Saint wise men, that are the authoritative sources stating the principles of a Vedic astrology, these planets are no. And thus Uranus, Neptune and Pluto not belong to planets encoding individual destiny, and not to mention the Proserpine, Chiron and may still any needed to some as the plus veil on the perception already mired in the illusion. So it’s used only by pseudo-astrologers of the astropsychology, because without unnecessary planets they simply could not practice this type of fraud.

4. And to understand that, you can look on the essence of the so-called astropsychology - the science of false-astrology practitioners, that uses in their interpretations of horoscope the general concepts applicable for everyone.

Think for yourself. For example, take to analyze the article about the Forer effect.

Forer effect

«The Barnum effect, also called the Forer effect, is the observation that individuals will give high accuracy ratings to descriptions of their personality that supposedly are tailored specifically for them, but are in fact vague and general enough to apply to a wide range of people...

In 1948, psychologist Bertram R. Forer gave a psychology test—his Diagnostic Interest Blank—to a group of his psychology students who were told that they would each receive a brief personality vignette or sketch based on their test results. One week later Forer gave each student a purportedly individualized sketch and asked each of them to rate it on how well it applied. In reality, each student received the same sketch.

On average, the students rated its accuracy as 4.26 on a scale of 0 (very poor) to 5 (excellent). Only after the ratings were turned in was it revealed that each student had received an identical sketch assembled by Forer from a newsstand astrology book.[2] The sketch contains statements that are vague and general enough to apply to most people.

In another study examining the Forer effect, students took the MMPI personality assessment and researchers evaluated their responses. The researchers wrote accurate evaluations of the students’ personalities, but gave the students both the accurate assessment and a fake assessment using vague generalities. Students were then asked to choose which personality assessment they believe was their own, actual assessment. More than half of the students (59%) chose the fake assessment as opposed to the real one..»




All of the above is for members of the forum who come to the astrological forums for help, to first think what instead of help they get and from whom. And as an appeal to astrocharlatans society for understanding their deception, so they are based on a delusion in its «astrological» work, and even more given the bullshit for others. Though I understand there always will be someone who even in explaining the real state of affairs will let to cheat himself. Everyone decides what to accept and what not, and only the sane chooses truth, not a lie.





P.S. Sorry for my defective English, I have it basic with a dictionary. Good luck to everyone in education, who seeking true knowledge for itself.
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Jupiterhead



Joined: 22 Jul 2013
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Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool.

What Ayanamsa do you use?
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jventura



Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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Location: Portugal

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Astrology and false-Astrology Reply with quote

Eka wrote:
(...) calling themselves by astrologers have no right on it. (...) This is nothing surprising, because for practicing astrology is necessary to understand these laws, and also to obtain secret spiritual knowledge, which can not be given to a wide audience. (...)


Hi there,

i always stop reading these things when people think they are superior than others because they understand the "law" and have the "secret spiritual knowledge" that the others don't have.. Confused

There are lots of astrologers out there that do not understand astrological techniques and use the "truly superior inspiration" to fill the holes left by their own lack of knowledge.

Astrology is a science in the sense that it is a body of knowledge. The best way to be serious with astrology is to understand its rules, apply them and do serious empirical research with it.

Currently there is no way to scientifically demonstrate how astrology works. We cannot quantify success rates for any given technique, or even be sure that any results could be (somewhat) scientifically reproducible. Therefore we must leave "gods" and "superior inspiration" kind-of-talking out of it and really try to search for these answers..

"Superior inspiration" and that kind of talk is the level where charlatans and most new-age naive people play. Most people do a disservice to Astrology when they use those kind of arguments!


Regards,
João Ventura
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Eka



Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 5

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Astrology and false-Astrology Reply with quote

Here are two links to the article « As children are born under the law of esoterica»:

http://pub9.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=723658197&frmid=260&cmd=showrecent&cp=0 - on this link read from bottom to top

and that another link of this article - http://pub9.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=723658197&frmid=260



My acquaintance is a big expert in this astrology. You can write on his forum, here is the link http://seth.forumcity.com/index.php . If you want, you can to order horoscope for you there. You can write as well in English, and site will try to translate it. You can also do translate articles from this site of the Thread "Astrology". I registered on this site under the nickname Milashka Syu and at the link below is the thread are my translations of some Upanisads[size], link -

http://seth.forumcity.com/viewtopic.php?t=230&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3366
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi eka,

your post might be better suited to the philosophical forum.. i disagree with some of the viewpoints and stopped reading it fairly early on.. i immediately thought of astrological fundamentalism rearing it's ugly head.. we see it in religion all the time.. to see it in astrology is less common..
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Eka



Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 5

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:18 am    Post subject: Re: Astrology and false-Astrology Reply with quote

jventura wrote:
Eka wrote:
(...) calling themselves by astrologers have no right on it. (...) This is nothing surprising, because for practicing astrology is necessary to understand these laws, and also to obtain secret spiritual knowledge, which can not be given to a wide audience. (...)


Hi there,

i always stop reading these things when people think they are superior than others because they understand the "law" and have the "secret spiritual knowledge" that the others don't have.. Confused

There are lots of astrologers out there that do not understand astrological techniques and use the "truly superior inspiration" to fill the holes left by their own lack of knowledge.

Astrology is a science in the sense that it is a body of knowledge. The best way to be serious with astrology is to understand its rules, apply them and do serious empirical research with it.

Currently there is no way to scientifically demonstrate how astrology works. We cannot quantify success rates for any given technique, or even be sure that any results could be (somewhat) scientifically reproducible. Therefore we must leave "gods" and "superior inspiration" kind-of-talking out of it and really try to search for these answers..

"Superior inspiration" and that kind of talk is the level where charlatans and most new-age naive people play. Most people do a disservice to Astrology when they use those kind of arguments!


Regards,
João Ventura



turns, that you contradict to itself in your own words. see, astrology is an esoteric science because it was originally given to the world by the ancient prophets. After all, even if someone uses now works on astrology erudites of our time, any case, they have base of it from antiquity.
And the ancient sages got this knowledge from God. Simply, they is already highly evolved souls who came into the world to teach others. Do not confuse spirituality with religion, the latter only in the way awareness of the unity of the soul with God, and when prophets came to the intended sociums to raise them in the development by gave them spiritual knowledge of Being, only the foundations, but the mind can distort it knowledge and construct religion for pasture.


Last edited by Eka on Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Eka



Joined: 10 Jul 2015
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
hi eka,

your post might be better suited to the philosophical forum.. i disagree with some of the viewpoints and stopped reading it fairly early on.. i immediately thought of astrological fundamentalism rearing it's ugly head.. we see it in religion all the time.. to see it in astrology is less common..



Philosophy (from the Greek. Φιλοσοφία, literally: the love of wisdom) - particular form knowledge of the world that produces a system of knowledge about the most general characteristics, concepts and fundamental principles of reality (of life), and knowledge life of the person, the relation of man and the world.

To be an astrologer need to be wise too. To be a wise and philosophy is not a part does not belong to the life of such a person. You write that did not read up, and we would look with pleasure on your rebuttal to the points of view, that are on items in my first message. To be seen evidently, may ugliness that was attributed by you to other, could be called in reply even more ugly words, describing curve thinking of the addressing side??
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eka,

english doesn't ''appear'' to be your first language.. i am trying to be more responsive to you by saying this!

ever try arguing with someone who believes you must accept jesus into your life in order to be saved? your initial message comes across the very same way which is why i referred to the idea of astrological fundamentalism here...

i have no difficulty challenging your initial post, but after reading your first bolded comment here :

Eka wrote:

1. There is no relocation. This false method used for constructing astrological chart those who does not have a true knowledge.



i didn't see the point.. and, yes i see this as a philosophical discussion... ''true'' knowledge? you are going to tell us what is true or not true!! thanks, but no thanks! this is my last comment to you.. the moderators appear to be on holiday here.. have at it, lol...
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Eka



Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 5

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
eka,

english doesn't ''appear'' to be your first language.. i am trying to be more responsive to you by saying this!

ever try arguing with someone who believes you must accept jesus into your life in order to be saved? your initial message comes across the very same way which is why i referred to the idea of astrological fundamentalism here...

i have no difficulty challenging your initial post, but after reading your first bolded comment here :

Eka wrote:

1. There is no relocation. This false method used for constructing astrological chart those who does not have a true knowledge.



i didn't see the point.. and, yes i see this as a philosophical discussion... ''true'' knowledge? you are going to tell us what is true or not true!! thanks, but no thanks! this is my last comment to you.. the moderators appear to be on holiday here.. have at it, lol...



About salvation. Jesus said to you that all who are born in this world will not enter into the Kingdom of the God. This world belongs to religion, that is of the Soulful, and it existing for a belief raising. But the prophets come into this world from the spiritual levels. If you're hold the opinion of the authorities of the world, then your deeds are bad. Because in the world there are more fools than reasonable ones.
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Paul
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what Mark think of this thread, but this site has never been about promoting one form of astrology, or indeed "truth", above all others. I recommend you try to be more inclusive and accepting of different mind sets and approached with your posts.
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Mark
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading this thread brings to mind a powerful line from the great Irish writer WB Yeats from his poem ''The Second Coming''

''The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.''

http://www.potw.org/archive/potw351.html

I take Yeats' reference to a lack of conviction to imply a tolerant, inclusive and open minded attitude that our views are only ever a provisional and parallax take on reality. The consequences of the opposite approach have let loose the most pernicious and destructive ideologies in human history whether religious or secular. I am not suggesting a dogmatic astrological outlook is quite that serious but it does seem a very limited way to approach our rich and highly diverse astrological lineage.

Mark
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Mjacob



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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A serious reply but put most beautifully - by Mark and WB
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Eric L



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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how to argue with this post.

Not that I agree with it or find the logic unassailable. The problem is that your post relies so heavily on quotations from scriptures that it's virtually impossible to argue the points without making the same spiritual assumptions (or, even more fruitlessly, trying to tear your spiritual viewpoints apart). Most of the references are to Indian spirituality - while I respect and appreciate these worldviews, I do not share them. Thus saying that the Baghavad Ghita says this or the Vedas say that simply can't persuade me any more than the Jehova's Witnesses who periodically ring my doorbell on Sunday mornings. And I doubt I'd be able to persuade you to my viewpoint anyway, because since I use the outer planets to a degree and incorporate astrological psychology into my readings (along with traditional Western methods) I'm presumably a pesudo-astrologer.

As for those posts on the other forum you shared - I can't read the original language, but what's in English comes across as having been machine translated. It's the only way I can explain such statements as "But if Rh negative blood factor in Nakshatra born in Deva." Not at all conducive to even attempting discussion.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the point "Eka" is attempting to make is that there is an "ideal astrology" as can be practiced only by Spiritual Masters and the astrology that as mere humans we ourselves practice. Ideal astrology is perhaps best noted by Yogananda's Guru, Sir Yukteswar in Autobiography of a Yogi in Chapter 16, "Outwitting the Stars":

Quote:
"Charlatans [This is India] have brought the stellar science to its present state of disrepute. Astrology is too vast, both mathematically and philosophically, to be rightly grasped except by men of profound understanding. If ignoramuses misread the heavens, and see there a scrawl instead of a script, that is to be expected in this imperfect world. One should not dismiss the wisdom with the 'wise.' "

How does this "ideal astrology" operate? An example from the text shows us our limitations as astrologers in comparison to a Master who practices astrology:

Sri Yukteswar counsels the young Yogananda:
Quote:
"For general purposes I counsel the use of an armlet made of gold, silver, and copper. But for a specific purpose I want you to get one of silver and lead." Sri Yukteswar added careful directions.

"Guruji, what 'specific purpose' do you mean?"

"The stars are about to take an unfriendly interest in you, Mukunda. Fear not; you shall be protected. In about a month your liver will cause you much trouble. The illness is scheduled to last for six months, but your use of an astrological armlet will shorten the period to twenty-four days."

(...)Thirty days after our conversation, I felt a sudden pain in the region of my liver. The following weeks were a nightmare of excruciating pain. Reluctant to disturb my guru, I thought I would bravely endure my trial alone.

But twenty-three days of torture weakened my resolution; I entrained for Benares. There Sri Yukteswar greeted me with unusual warmth (...)

"You must have come about your liver disorder....Let me see; you have been ailing for twenty-four days, haven't you?"

"Yes, sir."

"Please do the stomach exercise I have taught you."

"If you knew the extent of my suffering, Master, you would not ask me to exercise." Nevertheless I made a feeble attempt to obey him.

"You say you have pain; I say you have none. How can such contradictions exist?" My guru looked at me inquiringly.

I was dazed and then overcome with joyful relief. No longer could I feel the continuous torment that had kept me nearly sleepless for weeks; at Sri Yukteswar's words the agony vanished as though it had never been.

To read the entire chapter from Autobiography of a Yogi:
http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chap16.php
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ModWasp



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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
i always stop reading these things when people think they are superior than others because they understand the "law" and have the "secret spiritual knowledge" that the others don't have.. Confused


BINGO!

I got about as far as this
Quote:
As we know Astrology is a spiritual science and as a knowledge it always belonged only to the spiritual grade of people.


I think that most of the comments above are actually a little harsh, as astrology is surely open to personal interpretation. If we are in the Aquarian Age, as i personally think we are, than astrology must then be in the domain of Leo, in much the same way that she was in Virgo in the age of Pisces and was Libra in the Aries age. If astrology is now in the domain of Leo, where some careful consideration will lead you to your own conclusions, then it's perfectly reasonable to suggest that astrology is open to personal interpretation. That's because, in spite of the fact that many think they have all the right answers - and many of them regularly post on this site (and get it wrong so often) - and i include myself among that number, by the way - the subject that we are all dedicated to is simply beyond any one persons comprehension, even those with the massive egos (i'm sure you know who you are).

For my pennies' worth - this is how i describe astrology on my own website.

Most people tend to think that astrology is what they read in their news papers every day. But it is a much, much more complex and intricate subject than that. In fact, such is the complexity and depth of the subject, it might be easier to ask what astrology isn't. It's not reading tea leaves, gazing into crystal balls, fortune telling and it's certainly not some sort of manipulative con or parlour game as described by some 'scientific experts'. Astrology could be described as the craft or art of the study of life cycles, of time and the interrelatedness of the events in our lives and that of others. Astrology is, to put it quite simply, the correlation between the heavenly bodies and events here on earth. But that is not to say the the movements of the planets affect us directly: In the ordinary sense of the word 'Cause' the planets do not cause anything. When we talk about 'cause' we really mean what ancient philoshopy discipbes as 'efficient cause', that is to say something that makes something else happen. The planets are the hands of a clock that tells us of 'soul time', with respect to our location in the cosmos and what we call time. As human beings, we are connected to the World Soul or Gaia, which is conscious. As it is not possible to measure the world soul directly, we have to measure it indirectly by observing the movements of the planets, and as we are directly connected to the Anima Mundi, we also measure our own place within the cosmos. This concept is a little bit difficult for scientists to understand, as they do not believe that the human soul even exists, let alone the existence of a world soul or Anima Mundi.
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