skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Trouble defining the significators

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Yair Alon



Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 93

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject: Trouble defining the significators Reply with quote

Hello, everyone.

I am having some trouble deciding which are the significators for this horary.

The question was: "should I begin studying medicine as a new study field or apply for a PhD in my current area of graduation (Linguistics and Literature)?"



The querent is Mercury, and this per se confuses me, because Mercury is connected to both Medicine and Literature. Of course, Mercury is ill placed, in detriment and fall (maybe reflecting the conflict the querent has to decide what to do).

But it is conjoining Venus, well aspected to Jupiter (and disposed by it), and afflicted by Mars. This last piece of information I see as a little bit detrimental for studying Medicine (Mars as a "co-ruler" of the field), but I don’t know if it is a strong point in order to decide what the answer is. The good relations to Venus and Jupiter can be seen as auspicious for medicine courses.

So this is making me "stuck" at the analysis.

L9 and L10 are Mercury, which doesn’t help deciding which carrer to pursuit or to study.

The only way I could think for being able to judge the chart is to use a technique I saw somewhere (and I don’t remember where): when two options are given, first option (as asked by the querent) is L1 and second option is L7.

Sticking to this rule, studing medicine and pursuiting a new field of knowledge is Mercury, and going to the PhD in what the querent is already an expert would be Jupiter. Jupiter is much better in the chart than Mercury, therefore, this would imply going with the PhD.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

BEST
_________________
Yair Alon
Kabbalist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 508

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Moon is VOC, which is a red flag to consider and suggests that the status quo will continue and that you will probably continue what you have been doing. I would expect to see this if someone was just thinking about an idea but hadn't put much thought into doing anything about it. Getting into medical school is obviously very difficult too so that might be a factor as well in the VOC Moon, but I don't know your background.

I think the ascendant is also at a late degree but I can't tell for sure because the image is blurry on my phone.

If it were me, I would assign the 7th as the other route and the 1st the current situation. I would compare the strength of the two. Here I don't think that works very well and leads me back and forth with confusion. In general, you in detriment and square Mars in the 3rd suggests some unhappiness in studying linguistics and perhaps a break will occur (Mars indicates breaks in education in the 3rd). Jupiter in Scorpio might show the prospect of studying medicine and the fact that it is in the 2nd might show you are thinking of financial stability more so than your talents or interests. Mercury doesn't do well in signs of Jupiter because it is more so a specialist whereas Jupiter is wise and looks at the big picture. Mercury can still be a physician of course but would do better at specialized areas. Classically, Mars with Venus can indicate a surgeon (Mars is the butcher and Venus the artist), but here I don't think that applies (especially since Mars is in the 3rd). Neptune and Venus in Pisces seems to emphasize some creativity and talents in your current field more so than medicine.

Personally, if it were me, I would look at my natal chart and decide which career was better suited to me and also more likely to happen. I rarely see a VOC Moon amount to anything, though, so I think this chart is saying this idea is unlikely to come of anything (possibly either scenario, but maybe just that the current study will continue).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yair Alon



Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 93

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your feedback.

I saw the VOC Moon but was clueless on its meaning on a A or B question.

Maybe it’s better to ask again sometime later, but I liked very much to see that you too found some ambiguity in the signs the chart is giving.

BEST
_________________
Yair Alon
Kabbalist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 508

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonatti always said it was best to ponder a question well before asking, so maybe your question was not well formed or you were thinking about other things at the same time and were not focused on this question. The more important and well formed the question, the easier the chart is to read and the less likely you will have considerations. However, a VOC Moon and late ascendant might have real meaning. The ASC ruler in the 6th in a sign of Jupiter might suggest this chart is radical. If you feel undecided about what it is saying, repeating a chart might just leave you more undecided. You might want to ask a professional astrologer or just have your natal read and ask the reader what they think between the two careers. A chart of a physician versus a linguist should look quite a bit different.

I never assign significators after the fact. I think about everything while forming the question. That is like reading tarot and not thinking about the spread you are using and just drawing cards randomly. You won't know what area the card will represent.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yair Alon



Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 93

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your insight, Tanit!
_________________
Yair Alon
Kabbalist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sabumnim



Joined: 22 May 2017
Posts: 163
Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Yair:

Welcome to the forum. A couple of observations. Whenever 28 degrees or more of a sign is rising in a horary chart, that is typically a stricture against judgement that means that "it's too late," the question has already been answered.

Typically, an invalid ascendant is found in the charts of people who already have asked the question, previously, or the situation is simply beyond an answer at this time.

In layman's terms, 27 to 29 degrees rising can also suggest a "hung jury" in which no clear answer is currently available.

Therefore, to prevent hung juries and the like, I recommend to my clients that you put a time frame into your question and then you can re-ask the question, later, without penalty.

Something for some of you to ponder. Visiting the horary astrologer is like a visit to the Supreme Court of the land. It is typically the most skilled of astrologers, the highest of all the courts of astrology and they don't have to give you an answer, if the universe says so ?

The other smoking gun aspect is Moon in very late Leo, which according to the Placidus system of house division, puts the Moon in the 12th house, while the unorthodox house system you used (Alcabitious) puts the radix Moon in the 11th.

Regardless, the Moon in the 12th house is like the red light on the dashboard of your car and indicates a warning, viewing the question with rose coloured glasses, or a sense of confusion and or "pie in the sky."

It's not a good situation and you may want to re-think the question, carefully.

If you still wanted to pursue the question, I see your question as two questions, related to the ninth house of higher education.

Therefore, the first question (a medical degree?) is assigned to the 9th house, with less than 3 degrees of Gemini rising. The second question (finishing your ph.d) would be the 9th house from the 9th house, or the radix 5th house.)

Less than 3 degrees on the house cusp means that the question is premature and should not be pursued at this time.

In the turned chart, (9th house from 9th) the second question is ruled by Saturn (ruler) and is peregrine and makes no ptolemaic aspects to the chart ruler or any other planet. However, that does not mean a no, but rather, the status quo prevails ? So, yes, you may well finish your Ph. D.

Bottom line is that you are left with two options. One is to finish your PH. d. The other is to return to the workforce, since Moon makes an applying aspect to Uranus, co-ruler of the 6th house of work. The other aspects show Mercury in Pisces, debilitated, but also conjunct exalted Venus in the 6th house of work, so being employed MAY WELL be an option for you, according to this chart.

The reason is that an exalted planet accidentally dignifies a weaker planet by its proximity to that planet. Both Venus and Mercury trine Jupiter, ruler of part time studies (3rd house).

So, you could do both (work) and (go to school) ? I am aware that some of you may consider this an unorthodox answer. But in the modern rules that I teach, the Moon's final aspect is a trine to Uranus, so the outcome is also not as we expected ?

Fair enough !

Good luck to you, Miss.

bye for now,


S.
_________________
website: www.rj-smith.ca
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Vyri



Joined: 01 Nov 2012
Posts: 31
Location: Oregon

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:01 am    Post subject: Venus Hour Reply with quote

Kabbalist

Moon is thought to be VOC here but she has previously formed a Parallel with N.N. & will trine Uranus (non-Lilly) as a last aspect. She isn't VOC.
I think her last aspect to Uranus is important in this chart because he brings into the picture the importance of serving in a Utopian way, he is also noted as a power in Science-improveing the estate of healing on a multitudinous level.

He representing the doctor (In the 7th house) touches many lives wishing to be involved someway in the chart, his energy is applicable to healing knowledge (Uranus is altruistic in that sense.)

It is Moon aspect with Uranus as a major reason I do not consider her VOC, personal observation. Acendant is trine MC. is the Acendant faster in motion to physically engage with pursuit the destiny or has MC moved past the partile trine with Ascendant?

N.N./S.N. : Technically the Nodes of the Moon are not considered to receive aspects typically as the planets, most astrologers do not consider the Nodes in this respect, but here I think them valuable as Sun will Combust the fated S.N. holding S.N. soon to arrive in Cazumi-protected in the lap of the King. The Kabbalist recognizes fated S.N. making a statement of the value of being in the degree of 13 (transformation), the identity will enter into a place (Cazumi-in dignity of the highest order of the Sun as identification) that is accepted by a decision to alter what the 6th needs to reconsider.

The cluster of planets in Pisces represents a mixture of expressions of thinking, emotions-for instance what if I change my electives-career objectives in mid stream, will it result in my self undoing, the Pisces Stellium of planets demonstrates timidity or insecurity, a fear of not making the right choice, where will the native succeed with wishes to identify (Sun) his chosen lives work? Vague meanderings of Pisces energy on the 6th house.

The TOL of Moon with Mars, then Uranus: These two augment or agree that studies of a humanitarian hands on approach (Uranus) involving Mars mutual reception with Jupiter/Scorpio-Surgeon directness, stands to deliver a best good here. (Nix Mercury in the Jupiter Scorpio mutual reception = literature, bc Jupiter back in Poetic Pisces 6th-although the artist literary visionary, is not as utilitarian-serving a much greater service to give the best talents which might one day save a life as dignified Mars in Scorpio represents appearing in higher mindful Sag. in the 3rd-in mutual reception with Jupiter in the future 2nd quadrant) Am thinking it is Mercury/Jupiter Pisces/Scorpio that fulfills the question of a career involved with the opportunity of saving a life from the tomb. Jupiter is gifted back in Pisces in the 6th house via mutual reception with Mercury, placing Mercury in detective Scorpio able to demonstrate sharp practice of science the supreme career efforts of the doctor/surgeon its a good gig to embrace. Those planets can get out of the indecisiveness of Pisces on the 6th h.

Moon's position in Leo in the 12th; She is additionally strengthened-viable here as she joys in the common 12th house of harmony Pisces. She is fixed in her hopes in the sign of Leo and her ruling sign Cancer in the Pisces decan is upon the 11th house of hopes, this question has already been decided by the querent in place in the sub-conscience, Moon in 12th is fixed -determined to create or develop her wishes further; Leo is the sign of creation. The Moon is all 'about' extending a delicate hand of life giving care-where the emotions are willing to venture into humanitarian pursuits, (Moon in hospital 12th) to manifest life, Karma is in action here.

The majority of benign & worrisome influences come from the 6th house involving Mercury detriment (self doubt) & exalted Venus to Jupiter back in dignity whom is also ambassador of Sagittarius (ever so slight-subconscious is about to enter into a new territory beyond the 4th cusp into Capricorn (angle is imperative energizing awareness-to new emergence) recognizing Saturn in Capricorn upon the 4th house, Mars within Sagittarius in the 3rd house is additionally in mutual reception with Jupiter in Scorpio.

POF is partile trine N.N. which is in an angle in the Mars sign, the talents should be used as scalpel, knife, (we are speaking of the applications that best suit for career, Mars is within that understanding.)

Mercury is able to get out of being confused (detriment Pisces) or undecided by the mutual reception with Jupiter in Scorpio, where to apply or further administrate knowledge or acumen or begin different studies is demonstrated by his current placement in detriment Pisces (hospitals) but he is accidentally dignified back in his own house of Virgo (work) and in harmony in the detective sign Scorpio (Doris Chase Donne of Brotherhood of Light) Jupiter rising in the 2nd house; this quadrant rules the future.

Jupiter is the planet of university studies & future investments seem to be possibly a big concern which is the obstacle Moon is struggling to justify (square Jupiter).

Moon is in the house of hospitals, (talents that involve applications of knowledge to delve deep into scientific measures of recovery) - Jupiter will be able to express back within the hospital sign Pisces within the 6th) Aquarius is upon the 6th house of work or professional applications, Moon makes a wide trine TOL from Mars to Uranus, these all resonate to speak of the medicine courting of doctor.

Saturn (dignified) moves to conjunct Pluto in the sign of careers, he the grand master of transformations, agrees with Saturn, the career change is inevitable. Saturn is dignified to take a long hard look at decisions being in 4th house of conclusions. I think it will behoove the native to look into the long haul it will take to strive to achieve the ideal of 'healer.' (Cheron in Pisces in close range to Exalted Venus in Pisces, the optimal expression of the healer - artist.

Venus hour, the chart is valid-radical.

All the best
Vyri
_________________
"Omnia in numeris sita sunt"
"Everything is veiled in number"
"Ye Stars which are the glory of Heaven!"
If in your bright leaves we would read the fate of men and empires, "tis to be forgiven"-Lord Byron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 508

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't regard the outer planets as being acceptable for stopping a VOC Moon. There are exceptions to the Moon being VOC - in signs of its higher dignities and the signs of Jupiter. Uranus is a mundane planet, so it doesn't work well on a personal level in horary, although it can be descriptive sometimes of people or situations. Everyone is free to use their own techniques, but I have been using horary for over a decade and don't see the mundane planets working in an effective way to perfect anything. Uranus would also probably be deemed an erratic and unreliable energy. Hopefully the querent will update us in the future, either way.

Also, novices often have a lot of considerations because they are still learning how to form a question properly and how to interpret their charts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yair Alon



Joined: 16 Jul 2014
Posts: 93

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sabumim and vyri, thank you for your thorough answer!

Vyri, even though you use a lot of modern concepts, I liked very much the reading you gave to the chart.

Sabumim, incredible. You know... I’ve thought about making both things at the same time.

I usually disregard things as late ascendant and VOC moon as blocking the chart reading, but now I see that maybe I have to review this approach of mine.

You also had a gist of modern reading of the chart, but I liked it. The idea of reading the 9th and the 9th of 9th was very interesting.

I will surely update you all about further developments of the matter.
_________________
Yair Alon
Kabbalist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
moonbright



Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 148
Location: Canada

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Yair:

I've read some of the replies but not all, apologies if I'm repeating something.

I would take the late ASC, the VOC Moon and the debilitated condition of the 9th and 10th houses to mean that the querent should not choose either option and that he should "stay the course" with regard to his present career situation. The ASC ruler is not only debilitated but cadent so it seems unlikely that he has the power to act at this time anyway and the considerations may simply be echoes of this.

As for significators, Lilly says (sorry, I don't know where) that the ruler of an intercepted sign in the first house can be used as a co-significator of the the querent. So that might change the querent's situation with regard to dignity but doesn't change at all the condition of 9 and 10.

The universe is always in motion, of course, so maybe later.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.
_________________
The Moon is opposing Jupiter. Don't get involved, it's their problem. Jim Critchfield
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated