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Mystery Chart
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Paul
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:38 am    Post subject: Mystery Chart Reply with quote

Below is the chart of a male, Andre, and I'm inviting anyone who wants to comment on this chart, in whatever zodiac or house system they wish, to provide insights on this mystery chart.

I have been thinking about a mystery chart to do for some time but I realise that there can be a problem whereby the individual can be guessed by working out the time and place. This is the chart of someone, however, who is not famous. In many ways I find these kinds of charts more interesting myself, as they're more the kind of charts that normal people have, without the extremes sometimes seen in celebrity charts.

Curious what people make of this, all I will say is that this is a male who has given consent for me to post the chart here, and may post feedback himself.

What insights can you provide about the chart that may help him best realise his potential, or recognise his strengths and weaknesses?


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Tanit3333



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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They have an interesting chart! I will just describe some impressions, since I tend to write too much and no one will want to read it all.

With Leo rising (Regulus on the ascendant too) and Sun on the MC, I would expect them to be a gregarious, affable person (also Moon conjunct Jupiter in Aries shows this and they are probably physically active) who perhaps enjoys attention and the company of others rather than being the introverted type. Regulus can show someone who reaches heights of success in life, but they can be prone towards narcissism. Most of their planets in general are above the earth, so they seem to be extroverted and enjoy people and want to be perceived as successful. The Sun is also feral and peregrine, suggesting they are perhaps lacking a little bit in knowing themselves and what they truly want in life and they may look to others for how they feel about themselves and their own self worth, or they may project confidence to help hide some insecurities that linger within.

They are probably pretty attractive to others with Leo rising, Sun on the MC and Venus sextile Mars, Venus trine the ascendant. Uranus trine the ascendant suggests some unique features to their appearance, whether physically or through their personal expression. Often Venus-Mars connections indicate a natural charm and that the person gets along better with both genders, and women probably find him especially attractive since he has such a dignified Venus. He likely has good style and good manners that others find pleasing, although Venus oriental in a day chart can add some slight coarseness or unconventional approaches to manners (I would think that is not emphasized). Venus rules the 2nd and is dignified and trines Neptune, so they might make a good living and spend it a bit decadently. Fixed signs that are dignified (especially a benefic) are good for finances but Venus in the day can be a tad less abundant or possibly more wasteful. With Mars in Cancer there can be some emotional issues, because Mars is not in familiar territory and this can lead to emotional frustration, such as a male who cries more often than a typical male, or can behave passive-aggressively (especially with Pluto) rather than come out and say what is bothering him. Mars in this sign also has some issues with going after what it wants (Mars opposite Neptune is a bit similar and can suggest some insecurities). It takes the long way around a situation rather than approaching it head on, although the influence of Pluto might help negate that. Mars opp Neptune from the 11th can also lead to confusion and deceptions in friendships, and probably times where romance and friendships are blurred. They have Mars in 11th trine Pluto in the 3rd, so they are a powerful communicator and this can come in handy in group settings, whether professional or personal. The influences of Pluto and Neptune towards Mars are in a pretty big contrast because Pluto trines add confidence and knowing what one wants whereas Neptune opps add insecurities, confusion and seeking approval from others, such as through sex.

They also have Uranus conjunct Saturn, opposite Mercury and I think this is someone who likes to shatter conventional ways of thinking and has original ideas, which they probably use in their work (perhaps to help others, since Saturn rules the 7th). Saturn in the 4th could also suggest a difficult relationship with the father figure that has shaped their life in important ways. Uranus in the 4th can also show a turbulent upbringing, such as an unstable home life. They may be estranged from some of their family also or suffer an early loss (8th house emphasis on the Moon and 4th ruler).. Probably not a bad relationship with the mother, since Mercury (10th ruler) is well placed and Moon is with Jupiter - they probably have a loving relationship with their mother but she may have been unconventional since Moon is in independent Aries, oriental the Sun and in a day chart.

They have Mercury as the dispositor, ruling the 10th and the intercepted ruler of the 1st and also almuten of the chart, so this planet has a lot of say in their personality, appearance and life. They may take on a lot of the physical attributes of this placement, such as a tall, thin man who is built more like a runner (lean more so than muscular) with dark brown hair and they may move quickly and be very active in their everyday interactions. Mercury in Gemin (also sextile Moon adds to intelligence)i in the 10th is obviously an excellent communicator, very quick with words, writing, etc. and often physically agile and quick, although there is a problem with the Saturn opposition. This can cause developmental delays, can censor their communications, cause blockages in general (especially since Mercury is such a significant planet in their chart), and can also show them as being more scrutinizing of others and maybe even narrow minded at times (although they have Mercury sextile Jupiter in Aries, which helps a lot with being more open minded and accepting of others). Since Saturn rules the 7th, I think their career involves scrutinizing the work of others in some way, in an intellectual field, such as being an editor or in working with new technology (Uranus is involved). They may also feel more so that others scrutinize them and their life, and that has lead to themselves being a bit more analytical in general. It is tricky because Venus rules the 2nd in Taurus and trines Neptune and that usually makes me think of work in creative fields, such as design, but it could even be the performing arts (Mars in Cancer opp Neptune in the 5th made me wonder if they were a good dancer). It is possible their work somehow combines all of these indicators, though or that they have multiple jobs (they have a duo sign on the 10th).

They are a very creative person and also likely compassionate. They have Neptine in the 5th trine dignified Venus, square Moon conjunct Jupiter. As someone with a similar Venus (I too have the Neptune trine, Pluto opp and easy aspect to Mars), I can say the arts come easily to us and I was considered a musical prodigy and was told I am a natural actor (drawing came easily also), and I find the arts a huge diversion from the rest of my life, so I don't always think it is a focal point and it may not be for him as well, or perhaps during a period of his life. Also, too much Neptune can make someone live in a bit of a dream world and have trouble coming back to reality (I have as much Neptune). They likely have very high expectations in love and are a romantic at heart, but Neptune squares indicate lack of understanding what it is that they really want or need in love and it may mean they can feel dissatisfied even in a committed relationship. They may also have love affairs long distance (Venus in the 9th) and encounter many obstacles in love due to the 7th ruler opposite the almuten of the chart, which is the dispositor of the ASC ruler. In a man's chart, typically the Moon and Venus with the 7th ruler will help describe marriages, if applicable. Moon in a barren sign in the 8th, Saturn ruling the 7th retro, suggests at least delays in love. Moon with north node can be common in the charts of emotionally immature people or people who attract emotionally immature individuals, so it could he that after the age of 40-45, when the nodes are said to be less difficult, he may find more stability in love. The Moon is with Jupiter though and trine Saturn, so they likely have abundant relationships. The influence of Jupiter does mitigate Saturn a bit (still it is itself affiicted in the 8th). As someone with Venus trine Neptune and opp Pluto myself, we can also be a bit obsessive in love or attract others who are this way (usually both). Even though he has a lot of indicators of not being the jealous or possessive type, he might be with Venus in fixed Taurus opposite Pluto.

Like my own chart, there is a curious mixture of exuberance of energy and need for change and excitement mixed with a lot of Saturn that brings them crashing back to reality, and they are likely a rational person underneath. It is very interesting how Saturn is the only personal planet focused under the earth, although angular, so Saturn's influence is not quite as out in the open as the rest of his personal planets but it influences almost all of them.

Children to me seems unlikely with Cap on the 5th and Saturn in a fire sign lording it.

I don't see strong indicators of health issues but Saturn ruling the 6th in Sagittarius could point to chronic lung problems, such as asthma. Perhaps some injuries to the joints and limbs in Sagittarius, retro and on an angle. It can also show episodes of serious depression with Mercury. Since Mercury seems to be key in their chart, opp Uranus could point to nervous system issues or general stress and anxiety problems.
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Fleur



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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to spend a lot more time looking at his chart, and I am aware that a lot of the powerful aspects in his chart I just don't understand enough, as I am learning.

I am curious about aspects and transits of his Venus, and wonder if he is a model, and was he a child model from babyhood?

His Moon makes a sesquiquadrate 135 degree aspect to his Ascendant. The camera, and the viewing public, likes him?


Last edited by Fleur on Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Paul
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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great observations everyone, thanks for responding.

I will leave this up for a week at most, then reveal some key information about this individual, and invite them to the forum if they want to say anything about the posts, otherwise I'll summarise the key points and provide any feedback they have.

Thanks everyone
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Tanit3333



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Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A model makes a lot of sense, given indicators of being very attractive and perhaps work in the arts. Neptune influences also make someone have star quality (it rules film and photography too) and for a male, I very commonly see sex symbols where Mars is with Neptune (if other indicators suggests they have physical attributes). His Neptune also trines the ascendant and having a very nice Venus trining the ascendant helps too. Many beloved male sex symbols have Mars with Neptune, especially so with a nice Venus aspecting Neptune too, such as Ryan Gosling, and he is good at everything- acting, singing, dancing and modeling. Luminaries in the 10th or especially on the MC also can put someone in the spotlight in some sense, especially if ruling the 1st house. We have seen a lot of mystery charts with luminaries in the 10th. Even if he does not have a career in the arts, he would be gifted in that sense and would likely draw attention in his everyday interactions.

I have learned a bit more about the nodes more recently, and people with Moon conjunct the north node can seem more exciting to others, because there is something honest and youthful about them and they also crave attention. It is a bit different in males, though. Sometimes it shows the type of women they are attracted to, if they date women, and the women they date often share the same aspect. Unfortunately, it can also show some difficulty with the mind, such as poor concentration or in very extreme circumstances, losing one's mind. My mother has a Mercury-Uranus opp on the same axis, and Moon conjunct the north node and she has had strokes and nervous system issues since reaching her 60s and her memory and concentration has gotten really bad, so this can be something experienced later in life. My father also has Moon conjunct the north node and he had an accident in his 60s that left him with brain damage and dementia, but his aspect is very angular. I find it odd that it would be experienced late in life though since I often hear the nodes are less difficult with age. Maybe it depends on profections, etc. I do think both of my parents are very immature people on an emotional level, and I felt more like the parent with them (I have Saturn conjunct north node, which was conjunct my father's) but I doubt it is true in every case. If someone believes in reincarnation, it is supposed to represent a young soul.
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james_m



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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks paul!

it helps if i don't look at others answers, as it tends to throw me off, lol... so i haven't here..

mercury is very strong in this chart as ruler of the midheaven and in the 10th house.. moon is also applying to mercury from the 8th or 9th - depending on your house system.. mercury is also opposite saturn which is in the 4th or 5th, also depending on how you see houses.. it is always tricky with these last degrees of an ascendant rising.. the 29 leo rising is like the trump chart which has been subject to a lot of conversation..

i generally view leo rising as pretty self obsessed in some sort of way.. it is neither a good or bad thing and generally leos are pretty magnanimous types, unless other factors interfere.. the position of the ruler of the ascendant is also strong, so close to the midheaven.. even if they are not famous, i suspect they have a place of prominence in there life in some manner - some leader type, or someone in the public eye a greater amount then would be likely if the sun was in many of the other houses.. technically it is like being in an angular house and has the power to act.. again - sun in gemini, highlights the importance of mercury, as ruler..

since mercury is opposite saturn, i have to think of what saturn implies in the chart.. i think of saturn in the 5th as having a stronger desire to express themselves creatively, especially in a leo rising chart.. saturn in sag - might motivate towards politics,religion or some time of higher education area, in spite of the implied weakness that it might feel in this same position.. my general observation is people who are sensitive to their weaknesses tend to overcompensate by becoming strong in that area.. they say saturn in sag can suffer from a lack of proper education, but i think that is less likely here given jupiter and moon in the 9th sign from the ascendant - kinda 9th house for me assuming time is correct.. moon also applies to jupiter, ruler of 5th and 8th... moon itself is 135 to ascedant if the degree is correct, so this puts additional emphasis on the moon, as does the close conjunction with the north node... if all this is in the 8th - more of a business focus might be implied, but in the 9th - more travel, higher education and expansion of consciousness is suggested.. moon in aspect to the ascendant increases the popularity, or public appeal too..

overall though, i still think the mercury is the strongest planet in the chart, so i imagine some type of work with a mercurial focus... mercury rules the 2nd and 11th...

venus in taurus is opposite pluto, while trine neptune.. the degrees are very close.. relationships might be tricky for this person and they would gravitate to less rather then more as i see it.. saturn/uranus rules the 7th.. the mercury opp saturn would also indicate less, but more serious, rather then more, but not...

mars is the malefic of the opposite sect here, and it is considered weaker in cancer too.. it doesn't seem to be especially engaged with the rest of the chart, although it rules the moon/jupiter/north node... i am not sure how this manifests, but might be like an unaspected planet that has a hard time fitting into the rest of the chart.. perhaps being physical and asserting oneself is more problematic for this individual, although it would be compensated via the strong mental orientation... mind games as opposed to sports game would be suggested!

recife is a hot place on the coast and close to the equator.. i have never been there, but know where it is on the map... as i have a strong interest in brazilian music, i tend to watch what kinds of music are generated from the different areas of brazil.. it is an interesting place to be from! i am looking forward to reading others astro observations... thanks paul...

edit 1... okay, i just read tanits comments which i like.. i would like to comment on the relationship to the parents as well.. my take - jupiter rules the 4th.. i tend to view the 4th as connected to the father in a mans chart.. not sure why... the moon-jupiter conjunction suggests a positive relationship with the mother... the father planets - saturn and mars - seem more problematic in this chart... so, although i don't think the family background trips up this individual and in fact think it has generally helped them, although i would be curious to know how they see it! also - jupiter and saturn in favourable aspect is usually a positive for a person in terms of fate... but if i was to point to one planetary combo that i think might also define a persons relationship to their parents and how they might see their parents it would be sun moon.. if the sun moon is favourable in a persons chart, usually their relationship to their parents is favourable... that is my theory which i can't say i know of any statistical study that has been done on this..

the focus of all the personal planets is above the horizon, so more of an objective orientation to life, as opposed to subjective... it is a kind of see saw type chart that swings between the two, but definitely polarized in the outer, objective world as they see it.. not a touchy feeling type, so much as a matter of fact rational type.. it is funny how these characteristics can interact with one another.. i could be wrong, but that is how i see the psychology operating.. fire and air are the prominent elements, with water and earth secondary... that is a lot of hot air, which goes with recife! as tanit mentioned, i imagine they are a fairly popular person in the community and work they are involved in.. sales work would be a natural fit with such a mercury emphasis and air/fire strong... it is less likely some healing profession or pragmatic work which would be suggested more by an emphasis on water or earth...

midpoints.. sun is at the pluto/uranus midpoint... that is a strong combo - revolutionary type sitting on some of the zeitgeist for it's age demographic...

sun -moon midpoint is essentially where venus is... this obviously emphasizes venus role more then is obvious at first..


Last edited by james_m on Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tanit3333



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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

venus in taurus is opposite pluto, while trine neptune.. the degrees are very close.. relationships might be tricky for this person and they would gravitate to less rather then more as i see it.


Saturn ruling the 7th and retro seems similar but there are contradictions, such as indications of a high sex drive/using sex for self esteem boosts (again, Mars/Pluto/Neptune) and wanting to have attention from others. Moon conjunct Jupiter with NN in the 8th also seems like they would gravitate towards more abundant interactions in love to me (or at least they have many opportunities, even if disappointing), although they would probably not be long lasting relationships with so many difficult indicators on love. I do think those with Venus-Neptune-Pluto often experience at least one soul mate sort of experience that really hits them hard and shapes how they view relationships.

This person has a lot of contradictory indications that could have them behaving in different ways but they are also very Gemini, and so Gemini can swing back and forth between different sorts of personalities.

I forgot to mention that the Mercury-Moon/Jupiter link opp Saturn suggests a very witty humor that is also a bit dark or cynical (sarcastic).
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james_m



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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi tanit,

just seeing your additional comments now... generally venus mars combo in favourable aspect is a positive with regard to sexual relationships... it might be skewed a bit given the venus opp pluto.. hard aspects with venus pluto i associate with possible jealousy and power struggles, and pluto will bring in the suspicious nature with regard to relationships - venus.. mars seems like a dumb note in the chart to me, lol... don't ask me to explain.. i don't really view the mars as trine pluto, but i guess it is.. they are both in water signs which is a positive.. water seems like an unconscious element to this chart as i read it.. i am not sure how that gets played out - projecting onto the relationship person perhaps? mars opp neptune tends to weaken the martial force or sex drive as i see it.. i have seen many men with mars square or opp neptune who suffer from lower self esteem and it externalizes in drinking dependencies, or drug dependencies... something about neptune and alcohol seems to jive and when in hard aspect to mars in a mans chart it is one possible flag on the possibly of drug/alcohol dependency issue.. at the same time, mars/neptune can show in the chart of dancers too, so much depends on all the factors in the chart and how they line up!

hopefully we will get some feedback from the person whose chart it is! thanks for your comments!
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Tanit3333



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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had thought about addiction also but one thing that really helps counter Neptune's escapism is Saturn, and that influences a lot of his planets. I know from my own chart and I have never had addictions (unless you count coffee, and addictions to subject matter!).

Tiger Woods has Mars opposite Neptune and trine Pluto also and he has been diagnosed with sex addiction. I know what you are saying regarding Neptune but I do think Pluto changes things. It depends on the orb you use but I give Pluto 10 degrees, personally. Both Neptune and Pluto have the same orb with Mars but I know some people use different orbs based on the aspect. I personally find Pluto very forceful so that is why I give it a wide orb.

I forgot about his Mars-Uranus opp, which is out of sign but probably still felt. It would add to his being against convention, give some restlessness, impatience, increase his need for change and excitement and would add to problems in romance due to boredom or feeling confined. This person is unlikely to be boring himself! It also makes someone better with technology, like electronics. I do think he would have interests in technology, even if he does something in the arts, or combines it somehow.

I am not a huge fan of progressions because they don't seem to work on my own chart very well, but the Mercury-Saturn opp would be brought to an angle during around the 14th year, and might be significant for a major upset in his family life and/or physical injury or illness.


Last edited by Tanit3333 on Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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james_m



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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi tanit,

i hear what you are saying too.. i give more strength to the opposition then the trine... thus, i factor in the mars opp neptune more then the mars trine pluto, but i get what you are saying too!

of course saturn in conjunction to uranus is more unconventional... i have a fairly close trine between saturn and uranus which i associate with a less rigid saturn basically... i have found folks with the square between saturn and uranus gravitate to one or the other, but usually saturn... uranus is thus seen as an outside and disturbing force when they identify with the saturn too closely, like in a square or opposition... in the conjunction like this chart - yes, less conventional for sure, which is in keeping with the saturn/uranus conjunction... the 2 planets seem to integrate better in a conjunction, as i read it..

as for saturn making addiction less of a likelihood.. maybe.. well it helps keep the mercury more focused on the downside of their actions hopefully! perhaps having saturn in hard aspect to the midheaven ruler and ruler of the sun is a good thing! my comments about mars in hard aspect to neptune are just generalizations anyway... i am not convinced of any drug or alcohol dependencies in this chart... probably not.. the moon applies to jupiter which is trine saturn.. all in all, that looks favourable for offsetting any negatives with a more favourable backdrop involving moon applying to the jupiter-saturn trine... moon rules the 12th however, but i treat the moon more like 9th house position then 8th... will be interesting to get some feedback on the chart!
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Tanit3333



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Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with all that you are saying. I should clarify too that I don't think he is a sex addict like Tiger Woods, but I was just using it as an example that it probably would not lead towards lowering sex drive (or asexualism on the extreme end, which can happen with Mars-Neptune). Woods also has Jupiter involved, which definitely increases one's sex drive a bit too much sometimes.

You made a good point before about Neptune dampening sex drive and I do normally agree with it, and he may even have periods where he experiences that emphasis of Neptune, especially since Venus is involved and can want perfectionism. It tends to make sex more idealistic and the real world interactions don't measure up to fantasy or can seem downright disgusting.
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TT



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Met his girl in the UK as venus sets there,and might be a cook or designer,lacks self confidence in the brain department
~edit actually venus is in 8th over the UK it is his Mercury saturn opposition that is activated there. Does he struggle with comunication?

Reminds me of D Trump`s chart Very Happy
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Fleur



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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is his Venus antiscion is 22.5 degrees Leo and his IsisTranspluto is 20 degrees Leo. Because this orb is well past one degree, it is something completely different than if the orb had been one degree or under. Now it is a transit, not a natal aspect. IsisTranspluto transiting to his natal Venus at a very young age in a positive way is highly significant.

The more recent transit of IsisTranspluto from one degree applying to conjunct his Ascendant, from about 2007, and the Neptune in Aquarius transit to his Descendant from 2010 should have been very successful for him in an adult career in something like modelling, where his appearance (Ascendant) is significant.

The earlier transit of IsisTranspluto to Venus' antiscion in the twelfth house seems to be a more unconscious thing, such as being a child and in his case probably baby model, from a few months old where he wasn't conscious of what was going on.

Somebody else born at a similar time with Venus a bit further on so its
antiscion is within one degree of IsisTranspluto would have a totally different outcome, and also massively affected by whether the Moon aspects.


Last edited by Fleur on Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Paul
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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TT wrote:
Met his girl in the UK as venus sets there,and might be a cook or designer,lacks self confidence in the brain department
~edit actually venus is in 8th over the UK it is his Mercury saturn opposition that is activated there. Does he struggle with comunication?

Reminds me of D Trump`s chart Very Happy


Thanks TT

Any chance you could expand on the astrological reasoning for “designer, lacks confidence” etc - I know it can be a pain to articulate but can be very helpful
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Fleur



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Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

His Mercury conjunct Chiron in the tenth house opposition Saturn in the fourth house could mean to be careful in business dealings. Personally I don't regard the Uranus six degree orb to opposition Mercury as an aspect as I wouldn't use orbs that big. Use it as a Solar Arc maybe, timing something about six years of age, maybe a change of schools or separation from a sibling.

Maybe from about 1996 to 2008 there could have been problems for him getting paid for his modelling or other work. Middle men who deal with your finances being difficult, especially as Saturn is involved. Saturn in the fourth implies difficulties with the home, maybe loss of a home.

The Solar Arc IC is conjunct fourth house Saturn at the age of 14 in 2001, so most likely something to do with a change of or loss of a home.

His Sun, close to his Midheaven, is very strong and suggests creativity and warmth and power associated with career. His career is a vital part of who he is. Very likely as a personality in some sort of mass media. Some level of fame.


Last edited by Fleur on Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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