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Pluto in Capricorn
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 730

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Pluto in Capricorn Reply with quote

http://www.esotericmeanings.com/thoth-devil-tarot-card-tutorial/

Crowley's Thoth tarot deck associates this card The Devil with the astrological sign Capricorn.

I was wondering how this relates to manifestations we are currently seeing of Pluto's transit through Capricorn?

If this question is in the wrong section, please move it to where it belongs.
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To know what it means, ask the question of what changed when the planet made the ingress. You can narrow it to what changed in the area that Capricorn represents to get to the heart of the matter.

A short list...

- protests became cool again (Occupy Wall Street questions the banking system)
- currency wars took center stage
- bitcoin and other cryptos were born
- increased abuses of surveillance power - William Binney and Edward Snowden revelations (?)
- reality tv became fake news (?)

Some might say government corruption. But that's not exclusive to Pluto in Capricorn. Governments corruption is more or less a constant. However, we can expect to see the collapse of several governments and economic structures (domino effect). Those that survive may turn savage against the people exerting draconian powers and turn Cromwellian.

John McAfee really gets to the heart of this energy here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP-EJ6kv3zo
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Tanit3333



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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my personal favorites is that Pluto in Capricorn can bring transparency of corruption, which would probably be the inverted card interpretation (I don't like the Thoth deck and am not going to click on that link - I used it as a teen and it has negative energy). That is, those who normally would get away with corruption without the public being made aware of it no longer have that power. The problem is that the public doesn't always know how to use this knowledge effectively and the corrupt can still try to use other schemes, such as fear and masking their deceit with more lies.
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Donna Chang



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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:
One of my personal favorites is that Pluto in Capricorn can bring transparency of corruption That is, those who normally would get away with corruption without the public being made aware of it no longer have that power. The problem is that the public doesn't always know how to use this knowledge effectively and the corrupt can still try to use other schemes, such as fear and masking their deceit with more lies.


Describes the financial crisis of 2008 perfectly. We found out how corrupt the financial industry is and instead of going to jail the perps got a bailout.
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Michael Sternbach



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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur,

It might interest you that Pluto is represented by The Aeon in the Thoth Tarot.

A couple of years ago, I wrote an article about how the trans-Saturnians relate to the Golden Dawn's and Crowley's Tarot systems for my blog:

https://michaelsternbach.wordpress.com/2016/04/11/trans-saturnian/
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Tanit3333



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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Devil card makes more sense than the Aeon card for this influence. A card can represent a planet but they also have sign influences, if I remember correctly. The Devil card in general rules Capricorn, if I also remember correctly. I began studying these cards and astrology around the age of 14 and still remember the symbolism a bit.

Quote:
Describes the financial crisis of 2008 perfectly. We found out how corrupt the financial industry is and instead of going to jail the perps got a bailout.


It seems like there has been improvement since its ingress in 2008 in the public being aware of goings-on behind the scenes in general but it does seem to me that the information goes to waste a lot of the time. Another example is police brutality (sometimes leading to murder) in the US, and we never see improvement in that area despite recordings. Offen the officers involved also get a slap on the wrist.

I also think that information gets distorted and paranoia ensues, such as Jenny McCarthy starting the anti-vax movement - she started this problem around the sign change. Their arguments are related to corruption that does not exist. For example, I hear things like the government is trying to kill people with vaccines, which is ridiculous. Information on vaccines is readily available, but people cherry pick information to suit their agenda, or just share false information. Vaccine reporting systems is required to post ANY shared adverse event for months after the vaccine, and sometimes people die of things like blunt force trauma, etc. Unless someone was hit over the head with the syringe, the information is wrong, yet it is easy to see this if you actually read the information. Anyway, just something that has festered since this placement.
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Michael Sternbach



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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit,

Based on your reply to me (in the first part of your post), I can't imagine you have actually read my linked article...
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Tanit3333



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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael - As I said already above in my first post, I have no further interest in reading about Crowley's deck. I was merely remarking from memory of having once read the large book that came with the deck, many years ago.

I moved this to the mundane forum because the topic doesn't sound like a natal chart thread to me.
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Paul
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m really not a fan of the Thoth deck either, I find it harsh, jarring and discordant so I don’t really know what the connections of anything to it are.

However I don’t think Pluto in Capricorn relates to the devil card personally.

I think, for me at least, Curtis’s post about establishment are more akin to how I expected this period to play out but I don’t expect that to take effect until Pluto in Aquarius. If anything I expect Pluto in Capricorn to double down on established, centralised agency and monetary systems, suppressing and destabilising any threats. But this is a period where this kind of monopolisation and so on has erupted up into public consciousness and people are attempting to address it - but I don’t think it will actually be addressed until Pluto in Aquarius.

I also think that the resources of the planet, and fracking and the destruction of the oceans and so on also take a public seat for good or bad, and it’s interrsting to note Pluto in Cap doubles down on financial and corporate establishment so we have Trump denying climate science and all these protests and issues with oil pipelines - when I think of Pluto in Capricorn oil is a natural image.

The financial crash obviously began starting around the time Pluto entered Capricorn and so the idea of housing being a financial investment will likely be revisited during this time - the collapse is partially connected to this topic. But again I think Pluto in Capricorn tries to suppress and so the establishment will continue to suppress these changes whilst Pluto sojourns here.

Occupy wall st and so on is as much Uranus in Aries as anything else, I don’t think Pluto alone is responsible for this. Uranus in Aries brought about, as never before, the “me” tech - social media ramped up massive as did apps and so on relating to promoting me culture. But we also saw the brave and action oriented side of Aries with whistleblowers coming out particularly via tech and exposing corruption. So that side of things, I think, is Uranus as much as Pluto.

As for the Devil card, I don’t connect it with this kind of thing personally. I see the Devil card more when people make life choices of habits which work against their interests or where they act in a manner which isn’t helpful to their wellbeing or for which they’re ashamed, or when they can’t be honest with themselves. All of these things sort of bind the person up. So in my experience it comes up a lot when people are having an affair, afraid to come out about their sexuality or gender, are abusing alcohol or drugs etc.
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Mod Wasp mk2



Joined: 03 Oct 2018
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It seems like there has been improvement since its ingress in 2008 in the public being aware of goings-on behind the scenes in general but it does seem to me that the information goes to waste a lot of the time. Another example is police brutality (sometimes leading to murder) in the US, and we never see improvement in that area despite recordings. Offen the officers involved also get a slap on the wrist.



I would suggest Pluto in Capricorn is concerned with far more profound issues, rather than trivialities such as police brutality.

I think it's the further reaching issues such as transgenderism, mass immigration, trans humanism and, certainly, China's Orwellian Social Credit System that's represented by this placement.
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zoidsoft



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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
I think, for me at least, Curtis’s post about establishment are more akin to how I expected this period to play out but I don’t expect that to take effect until Pluto in Aquarius. If anything I expect Pluto in Capricorn to double down on established, centralised agency and monetary systems, suppressing and destabilising any threats. But this is a period where this kind of monopolisation and so on has erupted up into public consciousness and people are attempting to address it - but I don’t think it will actually be addressed until Pluto in Aquarius.


Agreed. William Stickevers has said that bitcoin is a manifestation of the Uranus Pluto cardinal square. I think that blockchain tech will really mature once Pluto is in Aquarius and Uranus is trine from Gemini. Before that, in the west, we will likely be subject to some heavy handed regulations, big court cases involving the SEC, etc... But most of the world is still unbanked or underbanked. Approximately 6 billion people are at least partially excluded from the privilege of western banking and will have no other option to use than decentralized P2P blockchains.

Blockstream seems to be taking a turn toward centralization, avoidance of privacy tech (while giving lip service to it with LN (Lightning Network, Schnorr sigs, Coinjoin, ZKSnarks, etc) but time will tell). I worry that a digital panopticon and further centralization of control can happen (at least for those of us living in western democracies).

I'm watching closely my natal Saturn position at 25 Cp 18 as the planets Mars, Jupiter, Saturn and Pluto pile up on it in spring 2020. The 3 outers will repeat this in the following year.
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james_m



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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting thread... from tarot to pluto in cap and possible connections with the devil, lol...

i thought the devil had a direct association with saturn, thus crowleys connection with capricorn to all this? upon closer inspection, maybe the devil isn't all they are cracked up to be?

paul - good post... thanks.. i agree, curtis gives a good overview of possible connections to capricorn, but one doesn't need pluto to get them.. however, we do have pluto in cap still and the financial crisis as tanit noted earlier, seems to coincide with the transit of pluto into capricorn.. being interested in finance, the federal reserve chart has some interesting connections to all this i believe... the dec 23rd 1913 chart has a sun opposite pluto on the degrees 1 cap, and 0 cancer respectively... the transit of pluto into capricorn coincided with an opposition to itself in the federal reserve chart...

so, i do believe pluto in capricorn is about a lot of what people are talking about here, especially how donna chang articulates it -
Donna Chang wrote:

Describes the financial crisis of 2008 perfectly. We found out how corrupt the financial industry is and instead of going to jail the perps got a bailout.


but i would go further... it is the world financial system and how it is presently stacked.. us$ as world currency is based on a premise of faith in the integrity of this system.. after 2008 with the bail out of wall st, and the screwing over of everyone else, it is clear just how corrupt the financial system is...

interestingly enough, the timing of blockchain seems to coincide with the same pluto transit into capricorn... "Blockchain was invented by Satoshi Nakamoto in 2008 to serve as the public transaction ledger of the cryptocurrency bitcoin." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockchain

i agree with curtis here
zoidsoft wrote:
I worry that a digital panopticon and further centralization of control can happen (at least for those of us living in western democracies).


indeed... for those who put their faith in technology, they forget how easy it is to centralize control of all that runs thru technology platforms...

my own thought is to live locally as much as possible and that would include any financial transactions you involve yourself in.. barter, trade and get off the financial grid, as it is fully manipulated. with all sorts of direct and hidden costs passed onto you regularly, including the 2008 financial crisis which from my own point of view was a result of manipulation... the game is going from one crisis to the next, each one bigger and each one taking away from those who fail to see how this financial game is being played...



for further info on the federal reserve chart, search the mundane astro forum.
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Tanit3333



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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I think it's the further reaching issues such as transgenderism, mass immigration, trans humanism and, certainly, China's Orwellian Social Credit System that's represented by this placement.


I agree with some of this but transgenderism and trans humanism? With Capricorn influences? To me, this would seem more likely in a dual sign that is more so associated with this subject matter, such as Sagittarius. Pluto in Capricorn is always profound? Why so? I think police brutality is a concrete institutional problem, which is the realm of both energies.

I think it is safe to say that you can ask about a given influence and be given a wide variety of interpretations because everyone has a different point of view on the matter.
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Mod Wasp mk2



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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but transgenderism and trans humanism? With Capricorn influences?


Capricorn is half fish/half goat.

Pluto's symbolism is of a profound nature because of the length of it's orbit. The influence is generational. One can't think of Pluto in terms of transits.

Police brutality is Saturn/Mars.
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amymaddalozzo



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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject: pluto Reply with quote

Pluto transits are extremely important in natal charts For me, pluto transits produced big changes amy
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