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trump 2019

 
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:05 am    Post subject: trump 2019 Reply with quote

i was looking at the solar return for trump in 2019... sure ain't pretty... see below..



my sister asked me if i think he gets impeached... after looking at this chart and in consideration of the solar arc directions, profection data and etc, i am inclined to say yes...

i talked with an astrologer friend in Seattle around the time of trump getting elected.. we both agreed that 2019 - 2020 are more challenging years for trump based off the specific transit of saturn to the opposition of his natal venus/saturn conjunction... my friend didn't believe trump would last his first year in office.. i, on the other hand felt he could last longer.. however, we both agreed it would get harder as saturn moved towards the middle and later part of capricorn... well, here we are almost to 2019...

the solar year for trump begins on june 14th approx.. june 14th 2018 is a leo profection year for trump... the coming one is a mercury profection year... clearly the sun in trumps chart is well positioned and strong, indicating a leo profection would be by and large favourable.. one can't say the same for the coming year with mercury as the lord of the profection for 2019..

how one brings all this together with the solar return for 2019 is in placing greater emphasis on the mercury placement in the natal chart and in the solar return chart in a mercury profection year... one can see how mercury in the natal chart is squared onto neptune and otherwise not in great shape occidental in a diurnal chart, but situated favourably in the 11th house by degree but 12th by leo rising.. it is in the 2019 solar return where one sees the difficulty mercury is in more clearly.. it is strong by house position and conjunct the ascendant ruler mars.. however, mercury/mars is opposite saturn/pluto in the 10th.. all of these planets in the angular houses suggests what will be brought out into the open in this year is not going to be a walk in the park, but instead more the opposite... moon in scorpio in this nocturnal chart is also in the 8th house and ruling over the mercury/mars conjunction in the 4th... all in all, i predict a very difficult year for trump..

i suggested to my sister that he might actually quit his job.. i am not sure how that would work, but something of a surprising nature is always a strong possibility with a person with a pronounced uranus.. in the total solar eclipse for july 2 2019, a mercury/mars conjunction in early leo is squared onto the early uranus in taurus position on the angles in the solar eclipse chart.. below is the chart..



in looking at the solar arc directions, the ones that stand out for me are sa ascendant square natal pluto in the 12th house... sa uranus continues to be within a degree of natal mars which is close to the ascendant as well.. sa venus is at 5 libra conjunct natal neptune at 5 libra in trumps 2nd house..

i am not sure he is going to be able to hang in til the end of his term... anyone else have some thoughts on this?? the past couple of months have been especially challenging for trump as i see it... i think it is going to become more difficult to hang in their... maybe he will prove me wrong...
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amymaddalozzo



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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Trump-2020 and quitting Reply with quote

James I think that Trump could quit--and Chris Matthews of MSNBC said the same thing.
TRump does have a close relationship with his kids, no matter what you think of him. The thinking is that Donald Trump Jr and Ivanka's husband Kusher, might face charges due to Mueller's investigation. Trump would fall on his sword, take the blame, and agree to resign is his relatives don't face charges. AMY
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Chris Matthews of MSNBC said the same thing.


He also said there was no way Hillary would lose. I'd be very careful of news people and astrologers who were "all in" for Hillary that are now predicting Trump's demise. Let's say their track record isn't too good.
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Kwincunx



Joined: 22 Feb 2017
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:27 pm    Post subject: think like a madman Reply with quote

There's only one thing that will decide Trump's future next year: whether he can act on his certifiable level of insanity. For instance is this whole business with a shutdown cover for taking funding and resources away from the Mueller investigation? Then maybe he arrests everyone in the investigation?

So whether it's mercury [mind], Pluto [lust for power and control] or mars [war], Trump's 2019 potential for outside the galaxy level craziness is what matters in a chart.
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Tom
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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There's only one thing that will decide Trump's future next year: whether he can act on his certifiable level of insanity.


Why mundane astrology is in the shape it's in.
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WooWoo



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll just repeat the things I've been watching for.

1/ Although it is in trine Uranus is rocking Trump's n.Mars / 21st Aug Eclipse Point / Asc. And no Saturn to keep things sensible.

And he does seem to be flailing around doesn't he.

2/ For a long time I felt Pluto was playing the role of Mueller. Soon to be joined by Saturn. And The Nodes.

And they are positioned to form inconjunctions or oppositions with most of Trumpy's planets.

And The Node too will be sweeping across this Venus and Saturn soon.

Venus Eclipsed ? NOT nice for anyone I'd imagine.

How about late March when the Node conjunctions his Saturn and Pluto is in near opposition too?

Oowch !

H
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the feedback everyone...

i tend to agree with tom in his comment about the difficulty in making predictions, especially if one is biased... it can't work...

woowoo - the way i think eclipse data works is it is more favourable for planets on the north node and less favourable for the ones on the south node... essentially this is how astrology as practiced in india treated the nodes - north node is more like jupiter and south node more like saturn... so with this in mind, the north node will be transiting trumps venus and saturn... that is net positive for venus, but more of a mixed bag for saturn... however it is complicated by the fact that the venus-saturn conjunction in trumps chart is being opposed by transit of saturn and pluto.... also, saturn in cancer is not viewed favourably... re trumps chart - saturn is occidental in a diurnal chart which is also a mixed bag... it is better in a day chart and it is not as great occidental as opposed to oriental as i understand all this...

clearly uranus - as oriental planet is very strong in trumps chart.. this is borne out in his behaviour as i see it too... it is also the most elevated planet in his chart... the difficulty for trump here with this lead planet is the transit of neptune is moving towards a square to uranus... ordinarily i wouldn't pay too much attention to an outer planet transit to an outer planet in a persons chart, but since uranus is such a key planet to trumps chart, i think it is relevant here... trump is essentially living under a cloud of uncertainty with the mueller investigation... just how this plays out is hard to know... it might be like gridlock where nothing much can get done as a consequence in the next year.. or, he might be dealing with impeachment proceedings, or he might quit! think uranus and anything is possible!!!

either way, i think it looks like a tougher slog for trump in 2019..

presently i note the fact he wants to pull out of war in syria, against the suggestions of 2 lead people who have quit as a result - mattis and mcgurk.... good for trump.. this could be a real positive for trump and pave the way for a 2nd term, as crazy as that might sound to some!

ot - some might enjoy the rolling stone article from matt taibbi... i especially liked what he said here :"We’ll see a lot of hand-wringing today from people who called themselves anti-war in 2002 and 2003, but now pray that the “adults in the room” keep “boots on the ground” to preserve “credibility.”

Part of this is because it’s Trump, but a bigger part is that we’ve successfully brainwashed big chunks of the population into thinking it’s normal for a country to exist in a state of permanent war, fighting in seven countries at once, spending half of all discretionary funding on defense.

It’s not. It’s insane. And we’ll never be a healthy society, or truly respected abroad, until we stop accepting it as normal."

we'll see if trump follows thru with what was an election plank prior to his winning the election.. i honestly think most americans are sick of wars and don't want to continue them... those who do are in a minority, but the msm would have you believe trump is insane for pulling out of syria.. i don't buy that.. kudos for trump for doing this much.. i sure hope it isn't a head fake...

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-syria-withdrawal-772177/
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Tom
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

File this under general musings. It's something I've had kicking around in my head on and off for about a year, and I'll give the basis, although I've probably done that elsewhere and maybe even here. I don't have the time to check.

Maybe it's time to ditch the natal charts of leaders, at least as primary sources for mundane prediction or understanding, and maybe altogether. We get all wrapped up in what we like and don't like about them, and then apply it to world situations. It is just possible that by going to the nativity first, we're putting the cart in front of the horse. World and national situations create politicians or create the potential for some to rise to power - not the other way around. So why do we look to the nativity of the politician first to understand the world, when we ought to be concentrating on the world and only then look at the natal chart to see how the leader fits or doesn't fit?

Morin writes in Astrologia Gallica, Book 25 pages 201 - 202


Quote:
1) Angles and/or lights are the same in the nativity [of the ruler-tc] as they are in the universal constitution, the nativities are well or evilly affected depending on whether the constitution is good or evil.
2) If those places in the nativity, are opposed or square to the same places in the universal constitution, they will be evilly affected, but if they are trine or sextile they will be well affected.
3) If the principal rulers of the nativity, and especially those of the ASC and the lights should have a connection by rulership or aspect with the place of the new Moon or full Moon immediately preceding the nativity, or the ruler of its place, and (page 202) should Saturn and Mars be in the principal angles of the nativity, or if the lights should be afflicted , such nativities will be base, unlucky, and monstrous.


Look at what he is doing. He's observing, or giving instructions on how to observe national or world situations using the hierarchy that dominates his world view. The "universal constitutions" (mundane charts, e.g. Jupiter Saturn conjunctions, Aries ingress, eclipses etc) are the radical charts. They are given to man by God via the cosmos. Then he looks at the monarch to see how the monarch or other leader works with the God-given universal chart(s). The modern astrologer does the reverse. He looks at the nativity of the leader and decides whether he is a bum or not (or maybe he does this the other way around), and then judges his every action accordingly, and tosses in some astrology to validate his a priori reasoning.

We live in a narcissistic culture, or I think we do. Natal astrology is the only astrology as far as most are concerned, when in fact it was, at best, the second highest on the ladder. Mundane astrology was always the crown jewel of the "science."

Our astrology might dramatically improve if we adopted a hierarchal viewpoint. The cosmos or caelum as Morin would have put it, is primary. The leaders or rulers in his view, are second and it is their job to implement God's will, not create it or supersede it. The job, then, of the astrologer, is to determine how best to achieve the harmony between the ruler and God's will. Even if we are uncomfortable with that obvious theological viewpoint, we should realize that no matter how powerful the leader, he or she is a bit player on the world stage, and in the grand scheme of things.

How does Trump's chart harmonize (if it does) with the May 2000 conjunction? With the 2019 Aries Ingress? Ditto Macron, Theresa May, Putin, Merkle et al? The issue of Trump's personality (or anyone's really) is so insignificant that it can be safely ignored. And if we place his or any leader's chart in that context, we might see better results.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks tom,

i have read a few of morins books, but not the mundane one... i have meant to and as a consequence i just ordered book 25 a moment ago... i look forward to reading morins views on mundane astrology...

i agree with what you say.. however, there are more ways then 1 to skin a cat... left to my own devices, i do what i can to understand the universe... i spent a lot of time here on skyscript discussing the jupiter-saturn conjunction and the saturn-pluto conjunction coming up for 2020... i read a buinch of ben dykes books that included ones discussing mundane astrology, the importance of the jupiter-saturn conjunction and the importance of the aries ingress... so, you get no disagreement from me in anything you say...

actually the aries ingress needs to be understood within the context of the ju-sa conjunction... where it gets tricky is in which one to use - the one from sept 2000, or the one for 2020... as i understand it, the one for 2020 is applicable for the next aries ingress chart... just how trumps chart connects with these charts is worth exploring, so i am going to do that and i will do that on this thread so you can see and comment too if you'd like... generally the comments i have made on the 2 conjunctions i mention earlier where done on a few different threads here in the mundane forum... i notice great interest in these personality charts of leaders, but much less interest in the conjunction charts or aries ingress charts... i don't really care, but i am making an observation... i don't recall any post from a number of posters here at skyscript, excluding mark, of anyone posting conjunction charts or ingress charts.. it generally never happens...

thanks and stay tooned, lol..
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Tom
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My musings are just that, musings - not instructions. As for the the Jup-Sat conjunction, in Morin's day it could not be calculated with sufficient accuracy to obtain an accurate ASC. If one of the planets was at or near staionary, the calculation could be a week or more off. Dykes notes that in order to get around that, the earlier medieval astrologers used mean conjunctions. Morin dismissed anything that was not natural, so he dismissed mean conjunctions.

Since we can calculate true conjunctions easily enough, this opens up a world of research possibilities for modern astrologers that were unavailable to our astrological ancestors.

Anyway Morin simply noted the importance of the Jupiter Saturn conjunction, but since he couldn't calculate it, he went right for the Aries ingress. Jupiter Saturn conjunctions unfold over 20 year periods. If you're looking for something more immediate, I'd go to the ingress charts. If you are looking for long term - then the conjunction is the way to go.

I noticed above someone, maybe you James, discussed a Saturn transit to Trump's chart. Fair enough, but Trump has a personal life as well as a very public one. I would consider the idea that if that transit doesn't also "hit" something in the Aries Ingress or one of the charts subordinate to that Ingress that it would indicate something personal more than public. But if it hits one or more of the subordinate charts as well, then I'd look for something public. Happy hunting.
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the additional comments tom...

yes, it was me mentioning the saturn transit to his chart... i might have even mentioned a few other things too, but regardless of that, i am going to post 2 charts below.. the first one is with trumps chart on the inside and the 2019 aries ingress on the outside... as you can see, there are some obvious connections... and what is interesting is how the mars in the aries ingress chart is conjunct trumps midheaven at 24 taurus.... this would suggest no let up in how many perceive trump - martial in many respects... the other obvious connection, aside from the big one of aries ingress midheaven on trumps uranus is the north node on trumps saturn, transit of saturn / pluto in opposition to trumps venus-saturn conjunction and again - this all dovetails with the eclipse data which i was mentioning in my first post, as the nodal axis is right here as well in late cancer/cap... maybe i, or someone else would like to comment..



the 2nd chart is an overlay of trumps chart with the jupiter/saturn conjunction set to washington... again - more cross overs between the charts can be seen... the most outstanding feature of this cross over is the pluto-mars square in the midheaven in the 2020 ju-sa conjunction and it's connection to trumps venus-saturn natal position.. will try to comment more when i have more time... regards james

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unique_astrology



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been posting tRump's leaving in January of 2020, one year short of completing even 1 term in office, since 2016.

The 2017 Inauguration’s 2019 solar return (precession corrected) occurs at 0:12:35 am, EST. It is followed 3 minutes and 22 seconds later by a lunar eclipse. The return and the eclipse charts have the Moon on the MC and the Sun on the IC in the White House. A full moon indicating that the term has expanded as much as it can and will begin diminishing from this time on (thanks to the Democratically controlled House of Representatives). I think the inauguration the return springs from will indeed be finished before another solar return for it next January 20th.

Progressing the return for 1 year using the popular method for progressing the angles (MC advances 1° per year) puts the MC/IC axis of the progressed return right on that eclipse. The end of tRump’s administration will probably come as the progressed angles sweep the eclipse points next January.

tRump has a progressed New Moon coming in his natal chart in 2019.

Charts for it in right ascension and in longitude:

tR prog natal NM Longitude (Sep 16)

https://i.imgur.com/neqYtRG.gif

tR Prog natal NM RA (July 25)

https://i.imgur.com/HdfVAFU.gif

This July 16, 2019, lunar eclipse on his natal Saturn aspect may signal the formal beginning of tR’s removal from office.

https://i.imgur.com/C3VHR3Z.gif

Saturn will transit tRump's inauguration Pluto 3 times in 2019. It will also oppose Sibly Sun once, square Sibly Saturn 3 times and oppose Sibly Jupiter 3 times in that year. Saturn will square his natal Moon on November 3rd in longitude and November 9th in RA.

A triumvirate of the transiting Sun, Saturn, and Pluto oppose his natal Saturn, square his progressed natal Jupiter and conjunct his inaugural chart's secondary progressed (Q2 Mean Quotidian angles) MC while squaring it's Jupiter at the same time. A heavy blow to all 3 of his most personal charts on the same day. On that same day his secondary progressed IC will be on the total solar eclipse of August 21, 2017 with eclipse Saturn on his progressed Desc.

tRump natal progressed to January 13, 2020, and the Great American Solar Eclipse

https://i.imgur.com/WWPf8CS.gif

Some dates connected to the 294-114 axis:

The Sun (294°42'), Saturn (294°42'), and Pluto (294°45') on January 13, 2020.

Charts with points that will be aspected:

George Washington's inauguration secondary progressed Sun/Pluto midpoint at 294°14' on January 13, 2020
trump's natal Saturn 115°43' is opposite
trump’s progressed inauguration MC at 293°28' (add 1 degree the next day- Jan 14)
Nixon’s natal White House IC at 295°51'
Richard M Nixon resigns as President, the MC of that chart is 114°27′ (IC is at 294°27')
Watergate arrest’s Zenith at 294°22'
Watergate arrest’s Mars opposite at 114°48'
JFK secondary progressed Sun at assassination opposite at 114°01'
Noon chart for Mercer has a Sun/Saturn midpoint at 114°48′ opposite 294°48′
Bannon on Jan 13, 2020. His secondary progressed Neptune will be at 204°47′ – squared by 90°
Republican party secondary progressed Mars on Jan 13, 2020 at 294°18'
tRump Jr. has secondary progressed Mars (in longitude) on his papa’s Saturn
My Putin MC in Moscow (chart made in 2012) 294°19'
Ratification of the Constitution (June 21, 1788, 1 pm, LMT, Concord, NH) progressed to same: Moon at 114°26' [opp 294°26'). Conjunct the Constitution natal Mercury at 114°39'.
The IC of my rectification for JFK located in Washington, DC, which I did in 1976 (a centennial year for the U.S.) 294°14'.

Cohen's plea (Flip) took place in Manhattan on November 29, 2018, at 9 am, EST (screen grab of document from Rachel Maddow's show). The chart's MC at 204°24'. The East Point , an exact 90° square to the MC at 294°24' will be transited by the Sun, Saturn, and Pluto on January 13, 2020.

Charts related to the presidency from 1789 - Washington's inauguration, 1946 - tRump's birth, 1972 - several Watergate points, and the 2017 inauguration, coming to or originally involving a common point at 294 degrees on January 13th, 2020, with three transiting bodies held by that same degree on that day. It might mean something related to the presidency term that began on January 20, 2017.

The lunar eclipse on January 21, 2019, located to the White House falls on the MC/IC axis with tRump's natal Saturn on the MC and transit Uranus on the Desc.

The Nadir is at 294°03'. Eclipse Pluto at 293°01' is on it. So is the eclipse Sun/Saturn midpoint at 293°59'. It is also the point where the Sun, Saturn, and Pluto will meet next January 13th (2020).
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james_m



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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi bob,

thanks for sharing.. i don't claim to fully understand what you are doing with these charts, but it is interesting you are using the presidency chart 1789 as a partial reference point for all of it...

how much do you factor in solar returns, directions and stuff like that?

i think there is at least 50/50 odds on trump being impeached.. the usa seems to be in such a crazy state at present, it is maybe more then 50/50 odds on this happening.
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unique_astrology



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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

There are actually a series of very difficult dates in January 2020, for tRump.

The reason for January 13, 2020, target date was because that is the date tRump's natal Saturn is opposed by the transiting Sun, Saturn, and Pluto - the heaviest difficult transit to his natal chart in the 4 year period he was sworn to. The events or people with strong aspects to that point are from nature and that there are so many of them in American political history indicate to me that the time is probably going to be a major point in American political history.

It could be an impeachment conviction, a resignation, a removal of tRump for medical reasons or death.

I use precession corrected solar or demi-solar returns to get a Moons position from which I cast lunar or demi-lunar returns (anlunars) for target dates for events which are publicized or determined by transits to natal or secondary progressed points in charts.

After i progress the lunar returns to the target date and time I place a secondary progressed natal around it to make an interpretation, then a natal, and sometimes for mundane work eclipses from the past year prior to the target date. In mundane work for natural events the returns are from the Moon's entry in sidereal Cancer or Capricorn. I express the charts in the Tropical zodiac for the benefit of most who will look at them.

Planets or points to be considered for interpretation must be in conjunction, square, or trine to the MC-IC or Asc-Desc axis, (2° orb), measured in right ascension. The hard squares to the MC-IC are the East and West Points and to the Asc-Desc axis the Zenith and Nadir, which are exact 90°'s from them and allowing the 2° orb. Houses and signs are of no concern to me. I like to use what exists in nature - the horizon and the point directly overhead for a given location at a given time, planets and the space between them and midpoints all positions measured from 0° Aries in the Tropical zodiac (right ascension is a function of the Tropical zodiac).

I may look at biwheels made from Natal and/or secondary progression (Q2 Mean Quotidian angles) with transits around them and the progressed lunar returns with the past year's eclipses around them.
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james_m



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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks bob,

i am processing different data differently then you, but i do believe the 2019 solar year beginning on his birthday june 14th and thru til same date 2020 is a challenging year for him... and someone pointed out this lunar eclipse that just happened landed on the sun in the inauguration chart... see the overlay of the 2 charts below..



it seems you are mostly focused on the transit data to pinpoint the january 2020 time..

i tend to see the focus on saturn as a focus on venus as well, given they are in a conjunction in his natal chart... using profections - it is a venus profection year starting june 14 2019 for him.. as i said before the mars saturn opposition on the nodal axis for his 2019 sreturn looks very problematical for me.. venus itself in the solar return seems fine, however, the chart has aries rising, which seems to reinforce the importance of the saturn-mars opposition, not to mention trumps natal mars which rises in the ascendant.. the most interesting solar arc direction is the sa ascendant square to trumps natal pluto in the 12th house area of the chart... his undoing may very well be the mueller investigation and trumps inability to shut it down, whether it is based on the intel community wanting to take him down or not.. he has not gotten a leg up from the beginning of his term and has been under fire 24/7.. it has been a very tumultuous presidency to date with no sign of it letting up..

perhaps the moon in scorpio in the inauguration chart and which again is seen in the 2019 solar return don't help... in both charts they square onto his 12th house pluto rather closely and which give more credence to my last couple of lines in the above paragraph - all emphasizing the same thing..
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