skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Known outcome horary - Will I move?
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 218

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:15 am    Post subject: Known outcome horary - Will I move? Reply with quote

Hi all, here is a known outcome horary if anyone wants to join in with their reading
.The querent had been living in a rented apartment and wanted to shift to another flat. So this horary was made asking "will I move to a different house soon?"
I will post the outcome next week.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1017

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me there is mixed testimony. Moon is VOC, combust, at a critical degree, peregrine but in a sign that still functions and within orb of Mars in the 1st (a square) and the querent is retrograde and in the 12th. A retrograde querent is likely to change their mind or waiver back and forth on an issue, and the 12th deals with things like feeling trapped or having anxiety of the mind, but it also relates to matters that are not well formed or are even not known. Jupiter is disposited by Mars and Mars is in the 1st. Sometimes Mars in the first can show anger or irritation influencing the question, such as something at their complex causing them to want to leave. Mars can also suggest asking hastily via emotions rather than logically.

The fact that the Moon applies out of sign to Mars suggests this could be something that leads to leaving, and the orb is pretty close, but applications outside of sign barriers typically occur after some sort of change in the situation, which a new moon also emphasizes, such as something new that comes up, something that is the straw that breaks the camel's back perhaps, and Mars is also in a new sign, suggesting again that there is a change in the situation that influences the final outcome. Mars to me does suggest an eventual separation - it usually cuts things short in horary and shows leaving, such as quitting a home, job, or a relationship. It is tricky because the Moon is combust, querent is fixed, cadent and retro, suggesting inaction and lack of concrete change, yet the Moon is increasing in light (leaving combustion), applying to an angular Mars and is entering a fire sign, sign of change and action.

Overall, I think the chart suggests some difficulty in the current situation and that moving would probably be in their best interest (although the 7th ruler, ruler of a potential new location isn't fantastic either) which I think is better to answer than whether or not they will move - and a question like this suggests they have no choice in the matter, which as someone with free will, they should. I normally would ask the person what they are trying to gain from such a question - will I move versus if I move will it be better, etc. doesn't seem like a great question. Hopefully if their signification here is correct regarding how they feel about living there that they did decide to leave, but their significators (Moon and Jupiter both peregrine too) are rather weak to complete the task. It would be more common to assume based on significators being weak that the answer is no, but there is much to consider that gives one pause, such as the new moon suggesting a conclusion, a lot of early/late signs suggesting an ending, and Mars's influence on the matter. Again, there is mixed testimony but to me overall it does suggest change may occur, without perhaps much thought. I could be wrong, though.

Sun seems to be influential in the question. Is there a reason Jupiter is trine Sun, ruler of the 9th in the 4th? The Moon is also conjunct Sun (combust) after a new moon. Do they live there for educational, religious, etc. purposes? Is this 9th house influence reaching a conclusion? The 4th is full of planets and it seems like many things are influencing them staying at this residence, which could complicate matters and likely plays into why their significator is retrograde, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Premise for a move to another house or flat is a contract
with the new letter or seller of the flat or the house.

Here is neither an applying aspect between Jupiter or the
Moon, singificators of the querent, to Mercury, the potential
seller, nor is there a translation or collection of light between
the significators.

So no, the querent will not move into another flat or house.

Of course the Moon is immediately about to leave the sign of
pisces, the other house (domicile) of the querent's significa-
tor and to apply to Mars, general or natural significator of se-
parations. These testimonies could insinuate the querent's
leaving her flat. And if the circumstances of the question were
knowin it could be interesting, that the Moon is translating
the light of Chiron (I know that Chiron traditionally is a no-go,
but as it is plotted in this chart one never knows . . . ) to Mars.

But without knowing more of the circumstances of the question,
I would stick to my above judgement assuming that Moon-Mars-
Chiron belongs to another level of the querent than this question.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1017

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normally in stay or go questions I give the 7th meaning but here they did not specifically ask about a place they had in mind to compare, so I interpreted it as a general question on change in circumstances. There is a lot of mixed testimony, so it is not a straight forward chart and I agree that more info would be helpful. It does seem like in such cases the more likely emphasis on weak indicators shows lack of perfection but I have seen charts lead to things happening in spite of difficult influences, usually because the current situation is difficult and it reflects that. If the current situation is not that bad, then the indicators might just be showing things that get in the way of leaving.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vyri



Joined: 01 Nov 2012
Posts: 41
Location: Oregon

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:13 am    Post subject: The move yea or nay Reply with quote

deleted duplicate post
_________________
"Omnia Numeris Sita Sunt" = Latin for;
"Everything is veiled in number"
"Ye Stars which are the glory of Heaven!"
If in your bright leaves we would read the fate of men and empires, "tis to be forgiven"- Lord Byron


Last edited by Vyri on Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Vyri



Joined: 01 Nov 2012
Posts: 41
Location: Oregon

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:14 am    Post subject: The move yea or nay Reply with quote

Moon is not technically VOC she will Parallel with the Sun one last time before leaving the sign, (an aspect that speaks of energies that help bring perfection-Ivy Goldstein Jacobson says, 'The objective wished to be accomplished is as good as done.") Moon brings with her all the energies, elements aspects of 9th, 5th, 1st and 11th lords with her as she enters into the new sign (Aries personal choice and initiative radical host of 1st house) making the square (agitation moves the individual bc of some unendurable suffrage Cheron (healer) in Pisces) to Mars at 00 deg Capricorn. Too many reasons 'not' to move it is an ultimate decision.

The Parallel is the aspect which brings into effect the TOL the Moon gathers to these ambassadors. Her last aspect to Uranus in Aries tells the resulting culminating decision to move.

Pluto, (change is the destiny Scorpio 10th) Saturn (property, new home depositor of 10th Scorpio sign on 10th), Mars (radical host of 1st house & ambassador of Scorpio, Aries) looms in the querents future 2nd house. The squares don't necessarily negate the situation (Marc Edmund Jones theory, negative aspects = no, benign = yes) but they do cause friction to augment the efforts to move. Moon Jupiter Saturn are all in dignity one way or another, yes alot of mixed testimonies that conclude the decision to move as a good one.

A lot of personal choice and initiative of Aries is power behind the motivating force for the move, as well of family and hearth involvements for some protection realizations for a better, best locale? Moon will collect the light of Venus, (11th house Libra hopes-wishes of natural radical 7th house, new home) Mercury (visiting lord on 7th-new abode) to mingle with the mover and shaker Uranus, hopes of moving to a new neighboring community.

Just a few reasons I believe the family moved. Am only a neophyte student of hoary so my two cents worth may not amount to a correct answer, but I think is a yes answer to the move.

Vyri
All the best
_________________
"Omnia Numeris Sita Sunt" = Latin for;
"Everything is veiled in number"
"Ye Stars which are the glory of Heaven!"
If in your bright leaves we would read the fate of men and empires, "tis to be forgiven"- Lord Byron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1017

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vyri - regarding VOC, Lilly would not call it a true VOC moon too because it is within orb via an applying aspect out of sign and it normally can function in the signs Sag, Pisces, Cancer and Taurus regardless if VOC or not anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vyri



Joined: 01 Nov 2012
Posts: 41
Location: Oregon

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:23 am    Post subject: Thank you for the critique Reply with quote

Thank you tanit have heard a similar discussion but not for an out of sign energetic application by aspect of a square (I believe you are referring to the square with Mars-a parallel to Mars additional, yes.. I would be convinced) have heard of out of 'sign' conjunctions to planets just beyond the cusp of a new sign-Moon joining to them, is the power of conj. of Moon's influence to limit the VOC.

In the 4th she is accidentally dignified, powerful, moves under the Sun's rays, with stealth, carries his power in Pisces that is the motivator, Sun is Pisces is woe to accomplish the motivating force (is Pisces self doubt reason & is wimpy will not over ride Moon in 4th, even under his rays Sun does little to detour here) to move, does not relieve her of her mission his rays do not lesson her vigor to instigate that which she is able to naturally known to achieve, "changes evolution." Moon is additionally in harmony in Pisces to boot is very powerful to instigate 4th house events, even if the attempt is vexing. (lots of squares abounding here, she has her work cut out for her..she accomplishes the force behind the move by thoughtful applications, conjuncting Mercury of Gemini on 7th new home).

Thank you again Tanit (you stimulate the old gray matter upstairs for me..lol)
Vyri
_________________
"Omnia Numeris Sita Sunt" = Latin for;
"Everything is veiled in number"
"Ye Stars which are the glory of Heaven!"
If in your bright leaves we would read the fate of men and empires, "tis to be forgiven"- Lord Byron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 218

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all, interesting to read different perspectives here. Tanit, Johannes, yes i agree i should have given some more background but while posting i thought may be some of you would like to make the attempt at reading it yourselves from the chart so i decided to exclude it. Now that already some of you have added your readings it will be unfair to post the background at this stage as anyone joining in after that may be benefitted through it? I wish to just spill the beans! (Im excited! Very Happy ) but will wait until the coming week so if anyone else who may be interested may chip in. I will also answer all the questions posed by you in your readings. It was nice to read your responses. I personally love these "outcome known" charts and wish there were more in this forum.

Best regards
S
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be precise as to the teachings and definitions of Lilly and many others:
The Moon - or any other of the Planets or the Sun - is not void of course, when she is in an actual application to the conjunction or to an aspect of another Planet, even if the other Planet or his aspect is in the next sign.

Crucial is whether the planets are applying or not.

Even if the Moon is void of course,
"yet if she be in Cancer, Taurus, Sagittarius or Pisces, then she is not much impedited by being voyd of course." Lilly, CA, p.299

Here the Moon is in application to the sqare of Mars and thus, and alone by this application, she is not void of course, .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 235

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Known outcome horary - Will I move? Reply with quote

Serene wrote:
The querent had been living in a rented apartment and wanted to shift to another flat. So this horary was made asking "will I move to a different house soon?"

No.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Known outcome horary - Will I move? Reply with quote

AJ wrote:
Serene wrote:
The querent had been living in a rented apartment and wanted to shift to another flat. So this horary was made asking "will I move to a different house soon?"

No.


I say?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serene wrote:
Im excited! Very Happy

So allow your excitement full bent and don't wait until next week, Serene.

The forum could really need some drive! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 218

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johannes susato wrote:
Serene wrote:
Im excited! Very Happy

So allow your excitement full bent and don't wait until next week, Serene.

The forum could really need some drive! Very Happy


Hey Johannes you must allow at least until the beginning of the coming week for the outcome! Meanwhile your response made me pull out another old known outcome horary from my horary bag (to be posted soon) Lala Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1017

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I say this a lot but I hate yes/no questions and would have asked for more info myself regarding the point of the question and why they were asking it. You can statistically get a yes/no question right by guessing. If someone asked me this question without wanting more than a yes/no answer, I would probably just tell them to flip a coin or use an 8 ball. It is funny because I know a professional astrologer who only accepts yes/no questions and I am sure they probably would have basically just said no (due to typical weakness of significators in a no question) and charged the querent a lot of money.

Quote:
Here is neither an applying aspect between Jupiter or the
Moon, singificators of the querent, to Mercury, the potential
seller, nor is there a translation or collection of light between
the significators


Is this a question of buying? I thought they were renting. Why would the 7th be a buyer for a rented apartment? To me, the 4th is the current home and the ascendant ruler and 4th are both ruled by Jupiter, which is retrograde. Retrograde significators for a querent show them changing their mind but on a question of leaving a situation it can also show a reversal, hence leaving. In job horaries, when someone is retro or the job itself is, it can be an argument for leaving. Also, Mars just entered a cardinal sign in the 1st and Moon is entering a cardinal sign after a new moon upon aspect with Mars. If this does not signify a change then I misunderstand the meaning of change in horary. Often when the Moon is at a critical degree it is a time where the querent is in the peak or end of the situation and it can show a crisis that causes them to make some sort of decision or realization. A new moon would agree to this as well and this in the 4th house and aspecting the 1st (Mars).

If this is a question on buying real estate, then I would need to entirely change my approach of the reading. From what was stated, all I know is the querent is renting an apartment and wants to know if they will vacate this home.

Quote:

To be precise as to the teachings and definitions of Lilly and many others:
The Moon - or any other of the Planets or the Sun - is not void of course, when she is in an actual application to the conjunction or to an aspect of another Planet, even if the other Planet or his aspect is in the next sign.

Crucial is whether the planets are applying or not.

Even if the Moon is void of course,
"yet if she be in Cancer, Taurus, Sagittarius or Pisces, then she is not much impedited by being voyd of course." Lilly, CA, p.299

Here the Moon is in application to the sqare of Mars and thus, and alone by this application, she is not void of course, .


Yes, I said this several spots above yours.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated