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Will I get a raise at work? - Outcome known

 
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 218

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject: Will I get a raise at work? - Outcome known Reply with quote

Hi all. Another outcome know horary if someone wants to attempt. This is a career related horary. Querent had asked - " Will I get a raise in my salary? " Background - querent was expecting a raise at work during appraisal time in their workplace and had a specific amount in mind by which at least they wanted their salary increased.
Please do let me know in case you want me to share something more in the background.
You may wish to describe the querent or their job if you wish or i may do so in case you want me to.




Last edited by Serene on Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1022

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say no regarding what they are hoping for, but maybe a conservative raise. I would say they very likely deserve what they are hoping for but we don't always get what we deserve.

I normally view raises as 11th house (2nd from the 10th) and Saturn rules it here and is not beneficial and lords the PoF in the 12th, although by sign it would be in mutual reception with Jupiter, which isn't awful but again would not indicate abundance. Moon is cadent, in a barren sign. She applies to Mars, 2nd ruler exalted in the 10th but out of sign, and Mars is still ultimately disposited by Saturn.

The application of Moon to the 2nd ruler via trine is the strongest argument for an increase but from the 6th in a barren sign and applying out of sign is not very promising. The influence of Saturn all over the chart seems like they were maybe frugal with raises, or perhaps this is a governmental position and raises are not abundant in general anyway? Saturn can mean lack of abundance for different reasons and not necessarily due to work performance - such as the budget of the company is not fantastic.

Mars as their 2nd ruler is dignified but out of sect and elevated, which is a little too hot for much increase of substance and it approaches the ascendant ruler from its fall and via square without reception. Likewise, the 8th ruler is afflicted, although in mutual reception with the 2nd ruler, indicating maybe a slight raise but not what they are hoping for - the 8th sometimes being an indication of other people's money coming to you, depending on the work. Ascendant ruler is also the 10th ruler combust the 6th ruler and Moon in the 6th - maybe the 6th is indicating the review of their service and they fear it? I don't know why they are combust but the aspect is at least separating, which Bonatti would say is much better than applying.

All around, it seems like a no for much money increase but it could indicate they would like the person to consider more leadership roles, or work on their leadership skills. The applying Moon to Mars out of sign and in a new sign might mean they have the opportunity to make more money if they take on a new role, for example. In other words, maybe they present the idea of a promotion rather than a great increase to their current salary? If they are already working in leadership, then probably not. It would seem odd if Mars here had no signification about leadership, especially with Jupiter and Sun involved.

As a Mars in the 10th (in Aries) and Jupiter ruled 10th person myself, I do often get strong Mars in the 10th as an indication of hard work and praise or success, such as working harder than others and showing leadership potential. Mars is the strongest planet in this chart and I have experience with that energy due to my own chart (it is my lord of geniture). Were I to see a strong Mars in any chart for myself or the matter, it is pretty much always positive in some way, but it isn't always for everyone else. With Uranus it can show being an original thinker, good with new ideas and technology, good with machines, etc. Their appraisal probably has some indications of such things. I also have natal Mars square Jupiter and such people are full of energy and good at leadership, but are prone towards burnout and sometimes misuse of resources and wanting to work independently too much rather than as a team. Leadership is highly indicated here so if they are not in a leadership role, they might want to consider it.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1022

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we use some of Deb's financial hints (which can apply to an chart):

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wealthelect.html

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wealthaphorisms.html

Part of fortune in the 12th I especially think indicates money hard earned, meaning they might have a laborious job in some sense. The infortune Mars is stronger and not in a sign of a benefic. The benefics are both very weak. Altogether, classically it would be a no for much financial gain.
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 235

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Serene for putting up another challenge. Much fun.

My approach to this is with whole sign houses and the naked eye planets including the Moon's Nodes and the POF. I know, a Neanderthal approach to chart interpretation. I doubt it will add anything that Tanit’s most excellent delineation hasn’t already flushed out.

The Quesited: Will I get a raise in my salary?
This is about additional income and Saturn the Lord of the Eleventh House of income is well placed in the Tenth House, but Saturn is also a natural malefic and the Lord of the Twelfth house of sorrow showing the querent is concerned about working hard without enough recompense. I wonder with this placement if the Querent is making less than comparable co-workers? Saturn is indicative of hard work anyway with less remuneration in general and his placement in the Tenth House is not good in this case.
The POF fortune is also in the malefic Twelfth House and disposited by Saturn. This is another negative indicator for a raise.
The Querent is not in a strong position at all, because the Chart Ruler, Jupiter, is utterly weak in early degrees and is tightly combust with the ruler of the Sixth House of work/sorrow, the Sun. The Sun the significator for Administration is in control here. Also, note that the Nodal axis falls across the Asc/Desc, forming a T-square with Saturn, another stressful/negative configuration.
The square from Mars, the Lord of the Second House of wealth to the Sun, Jupiter conjunction is sending mostly bi-lateral negative energy as well, though the Moon's applying out of sign trine from the house of daily work might take some of the tension from any discussion of money, the opposition of Mercury, ruler of others might indicate that discussing increased wages and is difficult or frowned upon.

The Querent may have tried to ask previously without success for more pay due to the separating Mercury Saturn square.

I would say the Quesited is a no. The raise will not meet their expectations.
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 218

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tanit, hi AJ
Some very good points have been put forth.And so much to learn from your answers as well. I will be posting the result and other details later next week. Thanks for your participation

Smile
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again Chiron, here in the ascendant, might give a hint that the querent could be rather disappointed if not hurt as to the question and his or her hopes.

The significator of the querent is the Moon, the job or chefs are signified by Jupiter and the income by the 11th, i.e. the second of the 10th, the querent's work.

For an increase of the income Saturn should be well dignified or at least about to become better dignified than before. But here Saturn is in his bad state of lasting peregrination and in his own 12th house, again a very bad place for every planet.

So in my opinion there is no hope for the expected amount of increase of the income and probably not even an increase at all. So on the whole a No to the question.

The translation of the light of Jupiter, the job or the directors, to Saturn, both stars being peregrine, by the Sun in his fall and Lord of the 6th, insinuates that the disappointed hopes for the improvement of the income might have their cause in the querent's own ill, or better improper or inadequate behaviour, if not in a real illness, so that the directors have no reason to increase the quertent's salary.

Furthermore and at the same time Mars, lord the 2nd and of the 9th, is in application to the square of Jupiter. The 2nd house is in questions concerning the concrete income not the really proper house to be judged, because it signifies the fortune in a more general way. But its lord is also the significator of self-esteem. So possibly Mars elevated and in his exaltation in the 10th, could be the reason why a kind of learning (9th), for example, could be the reason for an exalted, possibly exaggerated self-esteem (2nd) of the querent that does not seem to be quite adequate or justified (square) as to the job - at least from the point of view of the directors. (Jupiter lord 10).

In this context the applying trine of the Moon, peregrine in the 6th, with Mars, exalted in the 10th, could be seen as a hint that the essentiallay and accidentally weak querent leans perhaps too easily on his probably exaggerated self-esteem.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 1022

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had noticed Chiron and some other similar themes also and wondered if it was a question from the same querent as the question on moving.

Quote:
possibly Mars elevated and in his exaltation in the 10th, could be the reason why a kind of learning (9th), for example, could be the reason for an exalted, possibly exaggerated self-esteem


That is an interesting perspective!

It would help to know more about who is in charge of the review process. It could be even that Mars is the boss doing the review, in which case it would probably be a man who was a bit full of himself and not particularly flowing with praise in the exchange. The Moon trine could show some mutual agreement in the end on what is talked about, but with some disappointment, as usually comes with Mars, and the fact that it approaches from the fall and detriment of Jupiter and the Moon. In some cases, Mars in the 10th square the querent would be an argument for the querent to want to leave the job because of this matter, but I see Jupiter different than the planets inferior to Mars. Jupiter being superior to Mars and also angular like Mars could suggest some equal footing here, but peregrine Jupiter possibly them being in a lesser role but probably not deserving to be (Jupiter by nature is not subordinate to Mars), and the square could suggest some mutual animosity between two people on some level. Perhaps a challenge over the raise itself where the querent has to fight a bit? Again, it would depend on their relationship with the person giving the review. Both are approaching from signs the other does not like, which is common in charts that show a disagreement between people. I had assumed it showed information around the review or recommendations on improvement but it could relate to an exchange too. As someone who has Mars-Jupiter square natally, I know it is an aspect that disagrees with authority! I tend to view superiors as equal to myself and speak frankly with them. In a sense, that can be perceived as exaggerated self esteem also.
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 218

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Johannes thanks for joining in! You and Tanit have raised some interesting points here.

Tanit, this is a different querent altogether but again someone i know well personally.

Lets see if someone else also comes up with their judgement. I plan to post the outcome end of this week.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only to complete and not yet to discuss my judgement above:

Even though Pluto on the cusp of the eleventh was the first to catch my eye and was to be subject of the last paragraph of my text - it was simply forgotten. So:

Pluto on the cusp of the the eleventh could testify a real fight for the increase of the income. If not so, it could at least give a warning that the querent should not concentrate his thoughts nor his activities too intensely on this matter, because otherwise he could run the risk to get obsessed by this affair.

And this could mean to be a kind of overwhelming power to him, seeing that the querent's significator, the Moon, peregrine in Leo in the 6th, really is so weak - essentiallly and accidentally.
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 218

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all , will be sharing the final outcome and details tonite. The keyboard of my laptop has gone awry so it is taking time in typing and quoting on my small smartphone device. Sorry for the delay
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 218

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all

So here's the outcome ----
The question was asked by a young man.
The querent did get a raise but a very modest one and they were certainly not happy about it. They had expected a much higher amount and their expectation was also moderate itself so they weren't pleased with the outcome at all.


I am quoting below from several users and their several responses .........



Quote:
"I would say they very likely deserve what they are hoping for but we don't always get what we deserve. "

Yes he is indeed a very sincere and hard working person . Has some Virgo in his chart, a perfectionist and completely dedicated to his work. At times i have to tell him to take it easy and not be so hard on himself.




"
Quote:
The influence of Saturn all over the chart seems like they were maybe frugal with raises, or perhaps this is a governmental position and raises are not abundant in general anyway? Saturn can mean lack of abundance for different reasons and not necessarily due to work performance - such as the budget of the company is not fantastic."

He worked as a lecturer in a private institute and the budget of the owners was limited. He used to work in the industry but quit because of disharmony at his earlier workplace and lack of work life balance.




"
Quote:
Ascendant ruler is also the 10th ruler combust the 6th ruler and Moon in the 6th - maybe the 6th is indicating the review of their service and they fear it? I don't know why they are combust but the aspect is at least separating, which Bonatti would say is much better than applying."

Even i cannot say now why they are shown combust for i havent kept a record of his circumstances at that time but it could have been due to overall work pressure.




"
Quote:
All around, it seems like a no for much money increase but it could indicate they would like the person to consider more leadership roles, or work on their leadership skills."

Yes he is good at leadership, very dynamic and brilliant as well as friendly but not in a leadership role in his institute.




"
Quote:
As a Mars in the 10th (in Aries) and Jupiter ruled 10th person myself, I do often get strong Mars in the 10th as an indication of hard work and praise or success, such as working harder than others and showing leadership potential. Mars is the strongest planet in this chart and I have experience with that energy due to my own chart (it is my lord of geniture). Were I to see a strong Mars in any chart for myself or the matter, it is pretty much always positive in some way, but it isn't always for everyone else. With Uranus it can show being an original thinker, good with new ideas and technology, good with machines, etc."

Mars is also highlighted in his chart. He is always getting praise for whatever he does for he does it in the best possible way.




"
Quote:
This is about additional income and Saturn the Lord of the Eleventh House of income is well placed in the Tenth House, but Saturn is also a natural malefic and the Lord of the Twelfth house of sorrow showing the querent is concerned about working hard without enough recompense."

Given his degree, his capabilities and brilliance yes he certainly had been working hard for not much recompense .




Quote:
" I wonder with this placement if the Querent is making less than comparable co-workers? "

The querent worked here only as a guest lecturer so yes he got less than others but if you compare it in per hour basis he received similar pay as his co workers. But if we compare his salary to his ex classmates who studied and got the same degree as him he is certainly making much less money than them. Perhaps this is what you also see here?



"
Quote:
Saturn is indicative of hard work anyway with less remuneration in general and his placement in the Tenth House is not good in this case. "

Yes, and the querent also assumes a lot if responsibility for their work and works hard for it.




"
Quote:
The Querent is not in a strong position at all, because the Chart Ruler, Jupiter, is utterly weak in early degrees and is tightly combust with the ruler of the Sixth House of work/sorrow, the Sun. The Sun the significator for Administration is in control here. Also, note that the Nodal axis falls across the Asc/Desc, forming a T-square with Saturn, another stressful/negative configuration. "

The querent had been facing some issues in his workplace and perhaps thats why they are combust. Their relationship with their senior (and the one who reviewed) had bevome strenuous to a certain extent.




"
Quote:
The square from Mars, the Lord of the Second House of wealth to the Sun, Jupiter conjunction is sending mostly bi-lateral negative energy as well, though the Moon's applying out of sign trine from the house of daily work might take some of the tension from any discussion of money, the opposition of Mercury, ruler of others might indicate that discussing increased wages and is difficult or frowned upon. "

Yes it was a family business and a private institute and the owners did not have a fabulous budget and these constraints did make it difficult to talk about pay raises.




"
Quote:
The Querent may have tried to ask previously without success for more pay due to the separating Mercury Saturn square. "

Yes they had asked for an increase earlier as well without success. The administration kind of deceived them at that time.




"
Quote:
The translation of the light of Jupiter, the job or the directors, to Saturn, both stars being peregrine, by the Sun in his fall and Lord of the 6th, insinuates that the disappointed hopes for the improvement of the income might have their cause in the querent's own ill, or better improper or inadequate behaviour, if not in a real illness, so that the directors have no reason to increase the quertent's salary."


Quote:
"So possibly Mars elevated and in his exaltation in the 10th, could be the reason why a kind of learning (9th), for example, could be the reason for an exalted, possibly exaggerated self-esteem (2nd) of the querent that does not seem to be quite adequate or justified (square) as to the job - at least from the point of view of the directors. (Jupiter lord 10). "


Quote:
"It could be even that Mars is the boss doing the review, in which case it would probably be a man who was a bit full of himself and not particularly flowing with praise in the exchange. Jupiter being superior to Mars and also angular like Mars could suggest some equal footing here, but peregrine Jupiter possibly them being in a lesser role but probably not deserving to be (Jupiter by nature is not subordinate to Mars), and the square could suggest some mutual animosity between two people on some level. "




Interesting that this was brought up here in this chart. I myself wasnt aware of the actual story though i know the querent well enough and am sure that they do not suffer from overconfidence or exaggerated self esteem. So i called up the querent some days back to see if he could throw some light on these points. So what i found out was that his senior (immediate boss/ head of the institute) was such a character. Infact his mannerisms were somewhat amusing in that respect snd others use to make fun if him behind his back. For example he passed racist comments at the workplace and insulted his own countrymen. Querent respected this HOD for the vast knowledge he had but slowly after seeing their silly behavior he was a little put off. The relationship grew worse when the boss started finding very trivial faults with his work. Now being a perfectionist and also a hardworking individual the querent disliked being judged in this manner. The querent is a fearless person and always treated his superiors not like a boss but like an equal . This is not to say that he did not respect them but he neverso sucked upto them to be in their good books like his other co workers. Looking at it from the employers' perspective, they may also have been seeing the querent as someone not polite and overconfident of their talents. The querent had had confrontations with his boss several times (nothing very serious though) lately and he had started giving his boss fiting replies to his unfair criticisms of himself and his co workers as well. I think the Chiron on the ascendant shows that the querent was hurt by the company's treatment

This same boss , the head of the institute, reviewed everyone. And he submitted the reviews to the institute owners who then finally decided everyone's raise and promotion.

Here for the querent there was no scope of a promotion as a lecturer.

.


So thats all there is right now for the feedback. I enjoyed reading everyone's response and learnt a great deal here from everyone!!!

Best to all

Smile
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