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Degree of Ascendant re: horizon.

 
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TanKelpie



Joined: 27 Jun 2019
Posts: 1
Location: Queensland, Australia

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:25 am    Post subject: Degree of Ascendant re: horizon. Reply with quote

Currently teaching myself ancient theory and practice. I'm reading Valens and Ptolemy (and this forum) presently. In order to proceed I need some educated opinions regarding the degree of the Ascendant relative to the horizon.

When we say the Ascendant (or horoscope) is, for example, 2 degrees Pisces:

- are we observing that the entire constellation is 2 degrees above the horizon?
- or are we observing 2 degrees of the constellation is above the horizon?

I know there's a reason I need to know this, I'm just trying to figure it out!

Thanks in advance.
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 949
Location: Canada

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's 2 degrees of the 30-degree sign, not the constellation (star picture.)
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 974
Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:59 am    Post subject: Re: Degree of Ascendant re: horizon. Reply with quote

TanKelpie wrote:
When we say the Ascendant (or horoscope) is, for example, 2 degrees Pisces:

- are we observing that the entire constellation is 2 degrees above the horizon?
- or are we observing 2 degrees of the constellation is above the horizon?


A constellation is a two dimensional construct, but the ecliptic is a plane (only one dimension). Unless you are a siderealist, or an astronomer, the term is sign (or zoidion in Greek). Two degrees of the sign would be above the eastern horizon as measured on the ecliptic plane, but on other planes, it could be more or less.

For instance, it is possible to have an ascendant at 7 Degrees Virgo with Pluto at 15 degrees Virgo, but Pluto is above the horizon. This would be because Pluto is several degrees above the ecliptic plane.
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Paul
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Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1526

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the signs rose perpendicular to the horizon we might say that 2 degrees of the sign was above the horizon. Notice it’s the sign not the constellation - zodiac signs are even 30 degree mathematical abstractions (either based on constellations or based on the tropics).
In practice through the signs rise at angles so instead imagine a line running through the centre of the zodiac - the ecliptic - and a line marking off the horizon (imagined at sea level so no mountains etc) - the ascendant is the intersection of those two lines toward the east.

Dunno if this helps or makes it more vague!
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