skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Meaning of the Moon's Nodes.
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Nativities & General Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 751

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:49 pm    Post subject: Meaning of the Moon's Nodes. Reply with quote

I tried searching online for the meaning of the Moon's Nodes, and got very frustrated as there wasn't anything other than technical explanations of what they are and "spiritual" stuff about the direction our lives are moving in. This wasn't what I remembered, so I dug out the book "Horoscope Symbols" by Robert Hand, and found what I was looking for on page 90. He says that karmic astrology is too often the refuge of those who do not test their ideas in practice. He says that the nodes relate to connections with other people.

He also says that the "true" nodes are no more "true" than the mean node and they should not be used until research shows that they are more valid, and that he uses the mean nodes.

I agree totally with all that. The Moon's Nodes have a specific meaning that can be found by studying and researching them, but they are confused by spiritual guff. The Moons Nodes have been used for a long time, and surely traditional astrology has something to say about them before new age astrologers started going on about spiritual directions? There are likely to be deeper meanings, but the new age explanations are a dead end going nowhere.

Such are internet memes that I couldn't find anywhere that gave the connections with people explanation for the Moon's Nodes. No mention that they are about kinship and connections.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3365
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one example

https://midpointastrology.com/aspects/aspects-node.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 751

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
one example

https://midpointastrology.com/aspects/aspects-node.html


Thanks for that link. I hadn't been able to find anything online that interpreted the Moon's Nodes as anything but spiritual directions we are moving in, which isn't what my observation has shown at all. They are definitely about the people we associate with.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3365
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we all have to find information or knowledge in our own way.. personally i have relied on books more then the internet, outside of first hand experience and observation of course... sometimes you get what you pay for.. so much of the internet is for free and in some ways it shows..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4986
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur wrote:
Quote:
The Moons Nodes have been used for a long time, and surely traditional astrology has something to say about them before new age astrologers started going on about spiritual directions?


Yes it certainly does.

If your interested in the western traditional take on the nodes these articles are a great introduction. The first by the Brazilian astrologer Clelia Romano:

http://www.astrologiahumana.com/lunarnodesintraditionalastrology.pdf

For a more academic approach to the subject of lunar nodes there is this piece by the Italian academic Lucia Bellizia

http://skyscript.co.uk/pdf/nodes.pdf

There are basically 3 western interpretations of the nodes in traditional astrology :

1 Ancient -Valens and Ptolemy
2 Medieval
3 Renaissance especially William Lilly

Personally, I have also found the Indian astrological tradition has some very useful insights about the nodes and I would also recommend picking up a book or two in that tradition as well. Incidentally in Indian astrology the nodes are given much greater significance and are treated like shadow planets. The north node is known as Rahu, while the south node is known as Ketu. This book by Komilla Sutton is worth buying as an introduction to the Indian approach to the nodes.

https://www.amazon.com/Lunar-Nodes-Crisis-Redemption/dp/1902405099

Mark
_________________
‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 759

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a modern approach, there is also a Karmic Astrology book by Martin Schulman on the nodes, which I read about 10 years ago. It had some interesting info. I didn't feel like it resonated but some people might like it.

Astrolada on YouTube is a very good astrologer who has loads of videos on the nodes. I have found them the most accurate so far for natal readings. You can Google nodal placements, such as nodes in the houses or conjunct planets under her name and find videos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
moonbright



Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Location: Canada

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mark for the references.

Jan Spiller's book "Astrology for the Soul" builds on Martin Schulman's ideas.

Noel Tyl also uses the nodes to refer to associations with other people to a certain degree but he seems to emphasize a connection to the mother.

(I'll take the spiritual idea over my mother anyday, lol)

Cheers.
_________________
The Moon is opposing Jupiter. Don't get involved, it's their problem. Jim Critchfield
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4986
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting piece looking at the nodes in several natal examples. Its entitled ''Narcissism, Self-Effacement and Rahu and Ketu a key to understanding people'' by Hank Friedman

Hank Friedman is using the sidereal zodiac so some interpretations may vary for tropical astrologers ( such as when a planet is dignified or not and what planet disposits it). Still, there is a lot of useful insights nonetheless. Compiling a natal database of the nodes in conjunction/squaring with planets or angles is something I recommend researching if you really want to gain a better understanding of how the nodes work. The transiting nodes are another very useful tool to examine in charts. I

https://www.learnastrologyfree.com/nodes1.pdf
_________________
‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3365
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark,

thanks for the 3 different pdf's on the nodes... i read them all and found them all interesting for different reasons..

the first article from clelia romano is pretty dark, lol... the examples she gave - suicides, deaths and etc. etc... i think whatever system or approach one uses with nodes, they have to look at the whole chart, as opposed to just what the nodes are doing..

the 2nd article - Lucia Bellizia - was easier for me to swallow...

the 3rd article - Hank Friedman - vedic and etc, was most interesting for the angle he presented the idea of any planets with rahu, as opposed to ketu.. i liked what he said as i haven't read anything exactly like that before... there might be some truth to his concept.. i find it challenging looking at johnny cash, jack nicolson's and etc. etc. in sidereal as one will get a very different view in tropical, but regardless, the one comment about the man in black - cash - dressing in black due the link with rahu and saturn was interesting.. Note: "Neville Lang points out that Saturn (the planet that represents the color black) in its own sign strongly aspects Rahu in Johnny Cashs chart, and that perhaps that's why he chose to wear black and became known as "the man in black". maybe.... in sidereal i have rahu with saturn and i hate wearing black.. maybe my saturn isn't strong enough...

as for your book recommendations - i finally got a copy of Komilla Sutton's book on the nodes - maybe a year or a bit more ago... i didn't really get that much from it and i was wondering if this was due the fact i am not focused on sidereal? i don't know, but i thought i gave it a good try... i think i have Martin Schulman's book here in the house, but i have yet to read it..

anyway... thanks for those links mark and good to see you back at skyscript offering sage input!

fleur... i wanted to mention to you that the cosmobiologists and uranian astrologers have long made the connection between nodes and connections... i suppose that sounds vague enough to be of very little value.. i really think one has to spend the time looking at charts to get more of a grasp of it all....

and on that note, i would like to draw attention to the place of the north node in the mystery chart exercise that paul gave us a month ago... the description of moon conjunct north node seems to fit with the chart, and depending where you want to place the conjunction - in the 9th or 8th - a women adopted this person and brought him to a foreign country - france - where he was brought up under the influence of a women - and it doesn't sound like any male figure according to what paul tells us, where this women was very influential and central to the persons life... now, maybe it will look differently in sidereal, but the nodal axis has the mars- neptune opposition at the bendings of the axis too, which might or might not account for the absence of a father figure in his life or his choices with regard his sexual orientation... i do find the nodal axis as a part of the symbolism to a chart of great value myself and don't seem to have as dark an image of their role in a chart as i read being suggested by clelia romano in particular and to a lesser extent by the other 2 writers in the pdfs mark shared... regards - james
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
amymaddalozzo



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 104

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:50 pm    Post subject: the nodes Reply with quote

I have a t-square with the nodes in late (western) pisces/virgo, mercury conjunct the south node and my moon is Sag forming a t square I have been told that this means that my mother had a big time influence on my life which is true. In western chart, the nodes are in the 3rd and 9th houses AMY
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4986
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
.
Quote:
...in sidereal as one will get a very different view in tropical, but regardless, the one comment about the man in black - cash - dressing in black due the link with rahu and saturn was interesting.. Note: "Neville Lang points out that Saturn (the planet that represents the color black) in its own sign strongly aspects Rahu in Johnny Cashs chart, and that perhaps that's why he chose to wear black and became known as "the man in black". maybe.... in sidereal i have rahu with saturn and i hate wearing black.. maybe my saturn isn't strong enough...


Yes. It is a very different take on a chart. In the tropical zodiac Saturn is the Lord of the Geniture in Cash's chart. Scorpio is also often a sign associated with the colour black ( more as a power sign or the secrecy of the colour). I accept this doesn't seem to fit you!

James_M wrote:
Quote:
.....as for your book recommendations - i finally got a copy of Komilla Sutton's book on the nodes - maybe a year or a bit more ago... i didn't really get that much from it and i was wondering if this was due the fact i am not focused on sidereal? i don't know, but i thought i gave it a good try... i think i have Martin Schulman's book here in the house, but i have yet to read it..


Yeah on reflection beyond being being an introduction I dont rate the book especially highly. Komilla Sutton has a tendency to link the nodes to karma & rebirth. But actually in traditional Indian astrology the whole chart can be a mirror of that. The notion of the nodes as especially 'karmic' originates more from Theosophy than authentic traditional Indian astrology. I probably should have recommended instead '' Light on Life: An Introduction to the Astrology of India by Hart de Fouw & Robert Svoboda. A really excellent general introduction to Indian astrology. On the nodes I also omitted to mention the book 'The Rahu Ketu Experience: Everything You Wanted to Know about Rahu and Ketu''. by Prash Trivedi. Trivedi attempts to link the traditional associations of Rahu and Ketu to the outer planets which is quite an original approach. Of course as a tropicalist I keep finding myself cross checking his natal examples. Still the book is very interesting.

I read Martin Schulman's series of books back in the early 1980s. Its very heavy on the karmic associations of both nodes so comes from a Theosophist outlook. Still, I would like to refamiliarise myself with his work again.

James_M wrote:
Quote:
anyway... thanks for those links mark and good to see you back at skyscript offering sage input!


Yes its holiday time! But I will sadly disappear back into the obscurity of wage slavery all too soon!

Mark
_________________
‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3365
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mark,

the book you mention - The Key of Life : Astrology of the Lunar Nodes by Prash Trivedi looks quite interesting! i haven't seen or heard of it before..

i looked at the martin schulman book - karmic astrology and the nodes - earlier today.. it is actually quite good based on the 6 or so pages i read.. the basic gist of it is that we operate out of our south node and need to get into our north node.. he is very good at articulating what this might mean for the different signs.. he also discusses aspects to the nodal axis, as did judith hill in her book and a whole lot more too... it isn't steeped in dogma or superstition, so i guess that is the more modern asto approach showing.. what i read on me rang true... i will have to read the whole book...

enjoy your break and sure wish you could post more often! cheers james
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 759

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James - yes, that was the main idea of the book regarding our inclination to be pulled towards our SN while we should be focused on our NN. In that sense I do see it as true for my own chart very much. I am a Virgo NN 3rd house conjunct Saturn and I struggled terribly as a child with grammar school but excelled greatly in higher learning. I also struggle with 3rd house areas in general but do very well with 9th. The Karmic Astrology book mentioned the NN sign placement also indicating needing work on that area, so a Virgo NN like myself should do something that serves others, etc. Saturn is a double whammy regarding karmic indications though. The YouTube astrologer I mentioned is influenced by karmic astrology but also traditional and she combines some of this info with traditional techniques, so her tutorials I think are practical and make tangible sense that you can tie into a given chart. I requested a personal reading from her before and she is excellent, IMO. She was formally trained by a traditional astrologer (I believe Vedic) but combines her own research from other areas. She would say that if you do not believe in reincarnation, you can view the SN as early life/conditioning that influences your viewpoint and its counter house is where you struggle (she also goes into detail on planets that aspect the nodes). She has been my new favorite astrologer - she is also youthful and energetic, so her videos are fun to watch. Vedic astrology seems to be heavily influenced by the nodes, so I am betting picking up some Vedic books might help anyone wanting more info.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3365
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks tanit!

i have south node in gemini - 7th house area as it is early in gemini - sextile my sun... so - saturn conjunct north node is in the first.. what martin schulman said in the few pages on nn in sag and sn in gemini rang true for me...

i looked up this youtube person you mention and will check out more... thanks!

tanit - for clarity sake, is this the person you are referring to in the video below? thanks..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaCNO5XgxVQ

on this note, the women astrolada - mentions ernst wilhelm as her teacher.. he has a long video that some might find worth watching - i have to find the time for this - here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jXN42_GxNQ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4986
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:
Quote:
The book you mention - The Key of Life : Astrology of the Lunar Nodes by Prash Trivedi looks quite interesting! i haven't seen or heard of it before.


No. Confusingly this appears to be an older book by Prash Trivedi on the same topic. This was published back in 2003. The book I referred to was ''The Rahu Ketu Experience: Everything You Wanted to Know about Rahu and Ketu'' by Prash Trivedi. From what I can tell this was first published in 2016. I am not clear how similar the two books are.

Quote:
i looked at the martin schulman book - karmic astrology and the nodes - earlier today.. it is actually quite good based on the 6 or so pages i read.. the basic gist of it is that we operate out of our south node and need to get into our north node.. he is very good at articulating what this might mean for the different signs.. he also discusses aspects to the nodal axis, as did judith hill in her book and a whole lot more too... it isn't steeped in dogma or superstition, so i guess that is the more modern asto approach showing.. what i read on me rang true... i will have to read the whole book..
.

Ok. It has been about 35 years since I read this book so maybe I should give it another chance!

Mark
_________________
‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Nativities & General Astrology All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated