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Who is represented by Moon in the 7th House?

 
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Miss Watson



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 91

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:42 pm    Post subject: Who is represented by Moon in the 7th House? Reply with quote

Hello forum.

I erected this chart and I tried to simplify the question to something 'easy' to answer: Is my ex hopeful about us?

I even think that is a bit weird that Venus (me) is on 7th, since I'm not interest on this relashionship anymore. I erected this chart to understand why my ex got in touch with me after so many years we've broken and how should I deal with this situation (I don't want misunderstoods).


- The 7th ruler, Mars, a malefic is in the 11th, the house of hope (but I am not sure if have to consider MY 11th or HIS 11th).
- Mars and Venus are separating of a trine. Venus and Jupiter is separating of a conjuction. Our separation is clear.
- Moon is aspecting Neptune by square (I think I should consider as I am wrong about my assumption, he is not interested on me anymore).
- The Moon applying Mars by a trine. In this case, is the Moon representing me or him?
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 761

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The chart is difficult to interpret because your planets are disposited by Jupiter but in his house. I would still say Jupiter represents him more so than you, though, but perhaps you are disposited by him because your behavior is based on how he behaves or that you both maybe mirror each other in some ways? To answer your question, the Moon applies to Jupiter in the 7th house, not Mars. To me this would still suggest yes, he is hopeful about some sort of reunion. His primary significator is in a selfish position and separating from some difficult 8th house influences, suggesting some recent deep pain and loss influencing him, in spite of your influences. Perhaps he views your connection as one good thing that is juxtaposed against other negative forces in his life, which probably get in the way of your connection (such is the nature of Saturn). Mars by nature is an independent planet, but even more so applying to Uranus and in a sign of Aries, though. He is not represented in a way that is very conducive to relationships and the excessive fire in the chart suggests there is a passionate but probably unconventional force between you that is hard to sustain, despite fixed house cusp indicators for you both (suggesting some loyalty). I would say the chart suggests there is a mutual passionate connection.

Overall, Jupiter is collecting the light of the planets involved in the 7th (Venus aspected Mars before they both aspected Jupiter individually, and then Moon follows). The ascendant is late and conjunct Algol. It seems contradictory to the Jupiter influences but your question was one of feelings rather than a future with this person. It seems like it would suggest you both have some hope, though, to me.

I am curious if you know what Saturn is representing here for them? It seems very difficult. It could even point towards mental health issues, but sometimes it can represent a great painful event for them that occurred recently. They received a square from Saturn in the 8th, and Mars and Saturn combining in general is tough. Whatever it is seems in the past but could influence their future too, depending on what it represents. It likely is just explaining that your breakup was very difficult for this person but it could be something else.
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 202

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This chart is puzzling to me because the way i read it does not seem to fit into your situation. I think Tanit's in depth explanation is fitting well but for study purposes and to see if someone can suggest what i am seeing wrong i am writing what i see in the chart .To me it seems you are more keen on this relationship than him since you are signified by the faster planets (Venus and Mercury). Moon (you) in 7th is also a testimony to that. He is in the 11th house in the radical chart and in his 5th if we see the turned houses. Perhaps he is just feeling lonely and in need of someone as a mate or friend. Jupiter , his secondary significator is in his own house suggesting his focus on himself. You as Venus is conjunct the 8th, may be you are anxious of this situation or for some other reason? Are there finances involved? I wont say that Venus is in his house as it is in the last 3-4 degrees. Him as Jupiter is in detriment of Mercury and as Mars in detriment of Venus. Is he harming yoh in some way? Perhaps by bringing up the past pain? Otherwise if he didnt like you he doesnt make sense that he would be contacying you himself . His Sun (significator of his manhood) is in detriment and conjunct your Mercury , may be he needs you to make him feel good ? Moon is applying to Jupiter suggesting future action and development. This aspect is giving a positive answer to your question. However this man seems to be focused on himself and perhaps just needing you for selfish reasons and to make him feel better? This i felt because of the lack of positive receptions from his side. But all this explanation doesnt quite fit with what you describe so certainly i wont advice you to go by what i say here as it seems like i havent read the chart right.Moon neptune square would suggest things are not as they seem.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 761

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main reason I do not see indications of friendship here is because Mars-Jupiter especially is an indication of physical desire (that is something Wade Caves told me and something I think is true also), especially in fire, and add to that Venus. None of this is vey platonic in nature to me. Mars is very firey here though (day chart), so I do wonder if his contacting you was more so a spur of the moment thing rather than well planned out. It would suggest a sudden rush of exuberant energy, etc. His feelings could come and go quickly. The fact that he approaches from Aries is rather off-putting but being dignified in the house of hopes on a question of his hopes seems to make sense also. If it were a question of what will happen between you, I would think he would behave selfishly and probably disregard your feelings and focus on his own gratification, which would not benefit you, but that was not the question here.

With Mars-Pluto square, I wonder if he has gone through abuse or some other great pain. As I mentioned, Saturn as well. I do not think he seems very afflictive to the querent here because he is trining and received by dignified Jupiter. This would suggest his intentions are honorable.
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 202

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some very good insights again Tanit , i also saw passion and physicality in the chart from that Sun Mercury conjunction and i would agree that he cannot be actually harmful to the querent going by the essential dignities, he is well dignified both as Mars and Jupiter.

Tanit how do you see Jupiter and Mars being in detriment of Mercury and Venus respectively? Im curious to learn. Thanks
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 761

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury probably represents the "contact" she mentions, hence the combustion (in addition to Moon square Neptune) showing the message is not transparent, and with a detrimented Sun it was probably rather detached and lacked emotion. Perhaps Jupiter is in the detriment of the message because it represents a nature counter to what was communicated? In general, Mercury and Jupiter are pretty friendly planets to one another anyway and the influence of Jupiter on Mercury is fairly beneficial. I know Venus-Mars relationships pretty well from Aries due to my own chart and many things I have read on it and I already mentioned several, such as passionate feelings that do not last. Venus is also in a fire sign, oriental and in a day chart, so she is represented a lot like him - someone more bold, brave, someone who tends to act on their emotions. I would say in general that when a planet approaches from a sign without any benefit to the querent, that is not great and, again, would emphasize some disregard to her feelings on the matter, and her feelings may not mesh well with his, despite the trine. Lack of reception tends to represent disappointment but her significator is already peregrine, suggesting low expectations on her part (although the Moon has minor dignity).

Sun in detriment and Venus oriental in a romance question would agree with what you said about her being more keen on the relationship. I would agree if Jupiter were not so key in his house and if he were not so strongly presented. I think the chart should be taken with a huge grain of salt though with some indicators like this because it might suggest someone who feels passionately on the inside and hopeful like she asked, but maybe they will not act on these feelings. She did not ask about what will happen between them, just how he felt about a future together (whether that is what he wanted or not). I think questions on desires and hopes versus what is likely to transpire are two very different things.
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 202

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so you don't take Mercury and Jupiter as the secondary significators for the querent and the quisited ...Thanks again Tanit for sharing your insights , I always get to learn something new from your answers!
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Miss Watson



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 91

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit,
I am impressed by the accuracy of your comment!
I think this chart completely represented my question, although it's a bit difficult to interpret.
He is a Capricornian and has a stellium in Capricorn. I am a Taurean.
Our relationship was difficult, painful and I couldn't take the relationship in the past, which caused us more pain and suffering. I feel that Saturn in the 8th House shows more my own condition. But in the past. Suffering made me change internally and today I take a less insecure / passionate stance toward men and life.

Serene,
Actually, this graphic confused me enough because it seems like I'm interested in a relationship more than him.
Quote:
Perhaps he is just feeling lonely and in need of someone as a mate or friend.

That was the main reason I erected this map. Is he being selfish? Has he left a relationship and is looking for someone and remembered me? Does he just want to come back to fix what was not solved in the past (the pain and suffering he caused me), and as soon as the possible "passionate fire" is over, he discards me? He should just be wondering what my impression of him.

Quote:
However this man seems to be focused on himself and perhaps just needing you for selfish reasons and to make him feel better?

It's because the square to Neptune that I thought the Moon represents him, not to me.

Quote:
If it were a question of what will happen between you, I would think he would behave selfishly and probably disregard your feelings and focus on his own gratification, which would not benefit you, but that was not the question here.

I believe so, for that reason I have no interest anymore.

Quote:
I think questions on desires and hopes versus what is likely to transpire are two very different things.

I wanted to understand what his intentions are so that I know how to respond him without hurting his feelings and without giving him hope about us (if he has one).
I felt as if his message was a bit obscure, he didn't say everything he felt (maybe out of shame, being afraid of my reaction), so I thought "Is he hopeful about us?"

This chart, as Tanit said, shows that he has some hope, but as soon as we were together (if it happened) the fire of passion would come and go quickly.

Thank you very much for your comments! It was a great learning experience for me!
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 202

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Miss Watson. I was thinking about the wording of your question -"is he hopeful about us" Him in the radical 11th of hopes is a positive testimony and so is the moon's application to Jupiter and Mars (though hindered) . This does give a positive answer like Tanit said. However I was wondering if such a question would also clearly reveal his feelings for you? May be the chart is only revealing his outlook on whether there can be a future relationship between you both? And despite what he wants and his feelings for you, his outlook about the two of you getting back together again may be grim. If one takes the wording very strictly then it may be so. I don't know. May be I'm splitting hairs. But lately I have been trying to understand how wording works in horary charts and reach a definite conclusion for myself. May be you can ask whether he loves you or whether he wants to be with you as a life partner some other time where you have an urge to know.
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Miss Watson



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 91

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Serene,

I'm generally worried about wording horaires as well! This is really important, and, in my opinion, makes all the difference in a question.
If I make a confusion question, I cannot come to a conclusion. Thinking of this, I meditated "What do I want to know, after all? What is important for me at this time?" Well, I don't want a relationship. I have good feelings toward him (for what we lived together, our struggles, etc) but the past is in the past.
I think he may feel the same that I do. Not sure if we LOVES me, but he must feel something (or he would get in touch with me). That's the main reason my question was not "Does he still love me?" I think it would be a kind of redundancy lol
As long as I felt he is hiding something or not revealing everything, I had to know if he was interest on me, in a serious relashionship, that's why I still have not answered him because I wanted to know how to answer (the tone of conversation) Smile
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 761

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miss Watson - I am also a Taurus Sun and the only man I ever loved was a Capricorn Sun also (not a stellium but he has Sun/Mercury trine Saturn too). It definitely was not an easy connection for me either, and if I had to do things over I would have avoided knowing him. So, I completely understand your guardedness. He was the primary reason I learned horary about 10 years ago, since he never communicated anything properly and I had to use divination in an attempt to try to understand him! It was as if our typical gender roles were reversed and he constantly expected me to read his unsaid behavior and was angry at me when I did not. He was always angry with me, but not usually outright, other than one heated argument where he met with my own fire in response. In hindsight, it is ridiculous to me, but I suppose he taught me to understand people in general better (I am on the autistic spectrum). I would say he was an extremely cold, even downright cruel, person at times, but usually in response to his own internal issues that he did not deal with very maturely.

That said, the chart actually shows here that he went through a great deal more pain than you, perhaps. Unless the Mars-Saturn influence is suggesting something else. I almost wonder if he had a close call with death or danger that has had him reflecting on his life. Maybe it would be good to connect for some closure for both of you, if nothing else? Anyway, I wish you luck however it turns out. I doubt someone who has such difficult 8th house influences on the matter would have seen you as a passing interest, but that is just how I am reading it. It would be difficult to experience that level of pain without having loved and lost someone.
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Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 202

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can relate to what you write here Tanit.
It's fascinating how your love interest became instrumental in your learning horary!

Miss Watson thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think seeing it in that light you worded the question well.
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Miss Watson



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 91

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit,
I think you were right again! That Mars-Saturn connection 5° I discovered that was a dangerous situation that occurred with him five years ago. I'm impressed by your accuracy!
Then Saturn represents him.
In my case, he was not cruel, despite the stellium in Capricorn, was even affectionate (our communication was in fact a problem most of times). But the situation was complicated as a whole and there still was an unpleasant feeling.

You've turned something bad into knowledge, that's wonderful!

Talking, I figured it out he didn't want to spend the time without knowing what I thought about everything.
Quote:
Maybe it would be good to connect for some closure for both of you, if nothing else?

That is what happened.
I feel this has brought relief to both parties.

Thank Tanit and Serene! Very Happy
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 761

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Then Saturn represents him.


I don't think he is Saturn, but it would suggest Saturn as an external or internal force is influencing how he feels, etc. He is Mars and co-ruled by Jupiter here. Saturn is influencing him, which can have multiple meanings, such as your relationship being a memory of a painful separation, but also like I said, a dangerous encounter, etc. can be shown. He probably has a similar aspect in natal - I would not be surprised.

If he were Saturn around the matter, he would have reacted much differently, such as a message that is austere and maybe even cold and responding to you similarly, which he clearly did not. He has many indications of receptive interactions and being forthwith in his behaviours, which should be rather open in spite of the Saturn influence, but perhaps after a difficult start (Mercury's condition here).

Horary is not a great way to look at someone's behavior, etc but gives a general idea about a person. I would not have assumed this person was cruel here but I was speaking generally on what some strong Capricorn people can be like, especially when their negative attributes come out. He shows no affliction on you, IMO. In fact, being affectionate makes far more sense with Venus/Jupiter to Mars trine and involving the Moon in Sag. It would suggest being forthright as well. To me, this is one of the most positive romance horaries I have seen in a while, but it does carry some difficulty, such as Algol on the ascendant and his ruler somewhat afflicted and in his own sign, as well as excessive fire, but such things can be explained with a backstory, as you did. It probably took him a lot of courage to contact you.
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Miss Watson



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 91

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:

I don't think he is Saturn, but it would suggest Saturn as an external or internal force is influencing how he feels, etc. He is Mars and co-ruled by Jupiter here. Saturn is influencing him, which can have multiple meanings, such as your relationship being a memory of a painful separation, but also like I said, a dangerous encounter, etc. can be shown. He probably has a similar aspect in natal - I would not be surprised.

If he were Saturn around the matter, he would have reacted much differently, such as a message that is austere and maybe even cold and responding to you similarly, which he clearly did not. He has many indications of receptive interactions and being forthwith in his behaviours, which should be rather open in spite of the Saturn influence, but perhaps after a difficult start (Mercury's condition here).

I understand it!

For me this horary was very insightful and showed me things with a precision that I couldn't imagine!
Thank you so much for your answers, Tanit! Very Happy
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