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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Planets in Fall, Vargottama

 
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1380
Location: California, USA

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:05 am    Post subject: Planets in Fall, Vargottama Reply with quote

Planets in Fall, Vargottama

Somewhere in the last few days I read a question James asked about vargottama planets in their fall. I can't find this question, so am posting a new topic. This question is easy to answer with searches in AstroDatabank (for those of us oldsters who still have the original program on XP computers). I did three quick searches for the ascendant in a specific mansion of a planet's exaltation or fall. Only a few charts came up for each search (Krishnamurti ayanamsa).

ADB search: Ascendant in Libra, Chitra mansion, Sun in fall in Libra, vargottama:
Allman, Dana, American musician, the daughter of rocker Gregg Allman and an early marriage. She has had little contact with her dad though she sings and plays like him, sounds and looks like him...She and her son live in a mobile-home. (Sun 0.9 Libra)

Lecointe, Alain, French perpetrator of several rapes committed in Europe. In 1986: September 18, December 18 and 23. In 1987: March 17 and 25. (Sun 0.8 Libra)

AIDS 13058, American homosexual male; died of AIDS 8/27/1986. (Sun 0.9 Libra)

ADB search: Ascendant in Capricorn, U. Ashada mansion; Jupiter in fall in Capricorn, vargottama
Homosexual 11332 American homosexual (Jupiter 1.2 Capricorn)

Lesbian 11390, American female homosexual (Jupiter 0.1 Capricorn)

Palmist 24410, British palmist who learned her craft while living in India. Overweight, she is intelligent and severe. (Jupiter 2.4 Capricorn)

In comparison, an exalted Venus in Pisces:

ADB search: Ascendant in Pisces, Reveti; Venus in Pisces, vargottama; Only two charts came up with this combination, both belonging to physically attractive men who attained "name and fame."

Ertel, Suitbert, German educator, psychologist and astrologer...Professor Emeritus Dr Ertel is the world's leading investigator of Gauquelin planetary effects, on which he has authored many scientific articles including a bibliography of Gauquelin's publications...He died on 25 February 2017, shortly before turning 85. (Venus 29 Pisces)

Hirsch, Judd, American actor, a performer on Broadway from 1964 who received a Tony nomination in 1979 for his role in the Pulitzer Prize-winning play, "Talley's Folly." He won the Emmy twice for his co-starring role in the series "Taxi," which ran from 1978-1983...Hirsch came from a background of dense poverty and parents who never seemed to connect as a couple. (Venus 29 Pisces)

In these two charts Venus vargottama eclipses the "old age" affliction of 29 degrees in the sign.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1380
Location: California, USA

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a way to refine the ADB search for Venus vargottama in Pisces (Pisces 26 deg 40 to 30) and will edit this post and add more names and biographies later today.

EDIT addition 14 August:

This topic is related to planets in their fall, but it’s an interesting contrast to compare vargottama exalted planets. Here’s the complete list from an ADB search for vargottama Venus exalted in Pisces. This can only happen in the lunar mansion of Reveti in Pisces in the last navamsa. Most of these people have extensive biographies on ADB, and all data is Rodden rated A or AA.

Anderson, Robert: American entrepreneur and corporate executive, self-made oil magnate and cattle baron (Venus 27 Pisces)

Backus, Jim: American actor in vaudeville and radio who was on screen from 1942 in films such as "Bright Victory," "Pat and Mike" and "Crazy Mama." He is primarily known as the voice of the myopic curmudgeon Mr. Magoo in cartoons. (Venus 29.8 Pisces)

Ertel, Suitbert: German educator, psychologist and astrologer...Professor Emeritus Dr Ertel is the world's leading investigator of Gauquelin planetary effects. (Venus 29.3 Pisces)

Hirsch, Judd: American actor, a performer on Broadway from 1964 who received a Tony nomination in 1979 for his role in the Pulitzer Prize-winning play, "Talley's Folly." He won the Emmy twice for his co-starring role in the series "Taxi," which ran from 1978-1983.

McEvoy, Frances: American professional astrologer who writes skilled columns for NCGR journals and is a board member of the organization, as well as the president of its Boston chapter. (Venus 28.9 Pisces)

Rose, Pete: American major league baseball player for 24 seasons. In the center of one of the most talked about controversies in baseball history. (Venus 29.9 Pisces)

Wilson, Brittney Hana: American baby who arrived rapidly. (Venus 28.7)

Wright, Marion: American Mensan and cellist who took lessons from the age of 11 and played with the Indiana Philharmonic. (Venus 29.3)

AIDS 1169 Mexican homosexual maleAIDS. (Venus 29.6)

Homosexual 12600: American homosexual (Venus 27.0)

AstroData bank gives no other information on the last two men, but it seems obvious that these cases of exalted vargottama Venus in the ascendant mansion describes very successful careers in diverse fields. Reveti has been translated as "wealthy." Pushan, the deity of this mansion is said to give wealth and prosperity. (However, much additional material that is written about Reveti in modern texts may not actually belong there. I think it's usually best to return to the original and very brief descriptions of the ancient nakshatras as related to deities.)

It's interesting that so far the two searches for vargottama planets in their fall resulted in only two or three cases each. But the search for exalted vargottama Venus brought up ten birth charts which means that the indiviudals attained special recognition for various reasons.
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:39 am; edited 3 times in total
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi theresa,

thanks for bringing this up in a separate thread... so, if i can paraphrase you - a planet that is vargottoma is not good if it is in a sign of fall or detriment... this seems to be what you are trying to say with your examples... correct me if i have this wrong.. thanks..
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Location: California, USA

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James wrote:
Quote:
...so, if i can paraphrase you - a planet that is vargottoma is not good if it is in a sign of fall or detriment... this seems to be what you are trying to say with your examples...

This is what the data seems to say so far, but I'm going to post some more ADB searches with comments. It's interesting that somehow in all the years I've had ADB, it never occurred to me to search for vargottama planets in their fall. So your question was a good one to inspire research. Questions are the best teacher!!

Indian astrology has no detriment as a planet in the opposite sign from its own sign casts an aspect to a planet in its own sign, so has a relationship to its "home." So we only have (in western terms) a planet in the sign of its fall.
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james_m



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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

therese,

i also meant to thank you for pointing out that planets in indian astrology are not in detriment.. i was unaware of that.. i am curious as to what you find in other examples.. i will keep a look out for this as well and use it as a focal point... in the example chart i am using in the other thread on sudarshanka chakra, the person has venus in fall and it is in both the rasi and D9 chart.. cheers james

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10636
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1380
Location: California, USA

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your interest, James. The reason I am keeping the planet in the same lunar mansion as the ascendant is to place the focus on the individual (Ascendant, first house). We know that planets in the birth chart can refer to any area of life or even other people depending on house placement and rulership. Planets may not specifically relate to the owner of the birth chart. Also, we'll be able to see if the planet in vargottama exaltation or fall reflects any characteristics said to be in a mansion.

It's great that some actual research is being done here on Skyscript such as exploring the Sudarshan Chakra as you and AJ are doing.

EDIT: Additional names have now been added to the list of vargottama exalted Venus in Pisces charts in the August 13 post above.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are all the names that came up for an ADB search for Vargottama Venus in fall in Virgo when the ascendant mansion is Chitra. The Virgo navamsa runs from 26 deg 40 to 30 Virgo in the Chitra mansion. All data is Rodden rated A or AA.

Lesbian 8929 (Venus 26.7)

Diana, Racer: American Wiccan and clairaudient; red hair down to her waist, attended Gamblers Anonymous. (Venus 28.9 Virgo)

Kerry, Alexandra: Daughter of Senator John Forbes Kerry; Attended festival in see-through black dress (highly criticized) (Venus 27.4 Virgo)

Lesbian 8229 (Venus 27.6 Virgo)

Bratton, William J.: Los Angeles police chief, a police force riddled with problems; Ability to force change, brash; Feud with Mayor Giuliani which forced from his New York City position. (Venus 28.1 Virgo)

Moon, Warren: One of the first black starting quarterbacks in the NFL; Charged with beating his wife. (Venus 28.2 Virgo)

Mariano, Eileen: Noted family (Venus 28.4 Virgo)

Hooker, Cameron: American homicide, kidnapper, murderer and sadist (Venus 29.1 Virgo)

This small segment of Virgo containing a vargottama debilitated Venus has more than a tinge of a troubled or dark side connected to unpleasantness and scandal. Today homosexuality is becoming more socially accepted, but the birth data in ADB is from an earlier time period. So we are seeing both Lesbian and gay charts with planets vargottama in fall. (See first post under this topic for Sun in Libra and Jupiter in Capricorn.)

Contrast these debilitated Venus personalities with the success stories of Venus vargottama exalted in Pisces in the post above. It does seem that in general exalted vargottama planets are linked to career success and social recognition and acceptance. However, as usual in astrology, there isn't a hard black line between the effects of exalted and debilitated planets, but there is a general tone if all data is taken together. So far there is no dire misfortune or criminal activity connected to exalted planets in ascendant mansions.
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