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Sidereal Rectification - Royal Family
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Therese Hamilton



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Location: California, USA

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 8:54 pm    Post subject: Sidereal Rectification - Royal Family Reply with quote

This topic is being transferred from:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=111079#111079

Therese Hamilton
Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 10:40 pm
AJ wrote:
Quote:
Meghan's chart needs to be rectified because at least sidereally, her rising sign is right on the cusp. The rising sign is especially important in Indian astrology. I just don't have a lot of time right now to do that.

I have to apologize for the highly technical analysis below, but everyone can understand that Prince Harry's sidereal ascendant is ruled by Jupiter, and this connects with Meghan's chart.

I’d say that Megan definitely has a sidereal Cancer ascendant. Here's why: According to KP/Khullar theory (Kalamsa and Cuspal Interlinks) a sub-division of the ascendant degree has to reflect the nakshatra (star) of the Moon. Megan’s Moon is in the Moon’s star of sidereal Virgo. With Cancer rising the Moon comes into the equation, but I don’t think that’s quite good enough.

If her ascendant is between 0 deg 36 minutes and 0 deg 43 minutes of Cancer, this gives the small Rahu subdivision. Rahu can’t rule a sign, but it’s in Cancer, so this brings the Ascendant/lunar influence into the proper relationship to her Moon’s nakshatra/star.

But there is another convincing point for the first degree of sidereal Cancer rising for Meghan. Harry’s ascendant is sidereal Sagittarius. With the Krishnamurti ayanamsa Jupiter is placed at 10 Sag 01. This places Jupiter at 11 minutes of navamsa Cancer, conjunct both Meghan’s natal ascendant and her navamsa ascendant.

These calculations are from Solar Fire 5. Newer versions of the program may be more exact in calculating astrological minutes. I’ve tested the ascendant degree and minutes in three astrological programs, and they all disagree on the precise minutes and seconds of the rising degree. There is also a minute or two difference in planetary positions between programs, and many more when it comes to seconds.

So to get the proper small KP/Khullar sub-divisions, different software programs may give different minutes in time for the ascendant which would have to be adjusted. This means different programs would give slightly different clock times for the same sub-divisions in degrees/minutes/seconds. All my astrological software is rather dated, so perhaps the newer programs don’t have this problem. Here is an example of the differences I’m finding:

For clock time 10:57:45, the ascendant is:

3 deg 56' 45" Solar Fire 5
3 deg 57' 02" Parshara’s Light 7
4 deg 05' 07" True Astrology (Indian) for cusp setting

So to get the proper sub-division the True Astrology birth time has to be set for 10:57:16 rather than 10:57:45. In this case, the correct sub-division runs from 3 deg 49 min to 3 deg 59 min. It’s this kind of precision that the KP/Khullar systems use for rectification.

Next I'll look at Archie's birth time. There have to be certain relationships to the birth charts of the parents (Houses of the mother and father)

Reference:
Horary Astrology and Cuspal Interlinks by S.K. Khullar (Sagar Publications, 2006.
Key to Learn Sub Sub and Cuspal Interlinks Theory by S.P. Khullar (Sagar Publications, 2008)

Therese Hamilton
Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 10:53 pm
James wrote:
Quote:
i wonder how you would interpret the chart in sidereal? the venus becomes exalted, and the mars - now ruler of the ascendant is in deteriment and co rules the ascendant and 8th... and of course this mars is caught up in an opposition to jupiter in the 8th as well.. perhaps it implies a degree of rebelliousness towards all that he has inherited at a later date? this is just speculation on my part and we will have to wait til much later...

If we forsake psychology for the moment, the fact that Jupiter gives its full partile aspect to Mars simply says that the child (ascendant lord Mars) is an exalted and royal (Jupiter) birth. Jupiter is 9th lord (equal cusps), and 9th house Sagittarius is also the father's (sidereal) ascendant sign.

AJ
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 5:35 am

Quote:
Therese Hamilton wrote:
James wrote:

i wonder how you would interpret the chart in sidereal? the venus becomes exalted, and the mars - now ruler of the ascendant is in deteriment and co rules the ascendant and 8th... and of course this mars is caught up in an opposition to jupiter in the 8th as well.. perhaps it implies a degree of rebelliousness towards all that he has inherited at a later date? this is just speculation on my part and we will have to wait til much later...

If we forsake psychology for the moment, the fact that Jupiter gives its full partile aspect to Mars simply says that the child (ascendant lord Mars) is an exalted and royal (Jupiter) birth. Jupiter is 9th lord (equal cusps), and 9th house Sagittarius is also the father's (sidereal) ascendant sign.


AJ wrote:

Interesting observation.
Scorpio rises from 4:49 am to 5:52:55 am (KP ayanamsa) at London on that day.
That puts Archie's Jupiter in the 12th from Harry's ascendant though...and Ju gandhanta. What omens happened around sunrise in London on that day would be interesting to know. Were there birds of prey and jackles howling outside the hospital? I wonder. LOL
As telling as the Ju/Ma/9HSg, I think Archies Moon conjunct Harry's Rahu in his 6th house. Mo caught up in Harry's Ra/Ke axis.
Archie's exact Mars fourth aspect to Harry's Sun.
Archie's Venus to Harry's Venus by opposition, exact.
Harry's Sa on Archies descendant.
Still, there is an overall predictive dissonance with Archie's chart to Harry's regarding Dad's longevity, this is not seen in Williams chart either. I'm going to verify/rectify Meghan's chart when I have time because hers is key. I will take some time to digest your article on Meghans chart too. Thanks Therese.

AJ
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:51 am

Quote:
For clock time 10:57:45, the ascendant is:

3 deg 56' 45" Solar Fire 5
3 deg 57' 02" Parshara’s Light 7
4 deg 05' 07" True Astrology (Indian) for cusp setting

So to get the proper sub-division the True Astrology birth time has to be set for 10:57:16 rather than 10:57:45. In this case, the correct sub-division runs from 3 deg 49 min to 3 deg 59 min. It’s this kind of precision that the KP/Khullar systems use for rectification.

Hi Therese: I follow the argument pretty well... Thanks for the excellent and detailed expo. Still digesting all this and will report on my rectification soon.

A small thing really, but the clock time seems a wee bit off.
You don't expressly label it Universal Time but...
Is the time zone conversion wrong in the software ???
Meghan's birth time zone is PDT 7W (105) so 04:57 PDT is 11:57 hours UT.

You mention Krishnamurti ayanamsa for Harry's Jupiter but seeing the variations between the various asc outputs compared to what I get in SJS for 04:57:45 PDT are these for KP or Khullers ayanamsa?
I assume KP but I don't have Khullers ayanamsa in my software so I couldn't tell.

[For 4:57:45 PDT using SJS 9 I get 3Ca14 KP ascendant just for another software comparison.]

Therese Hamilton

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 8:52 am
Hi AJ,

The example of different calculations I gave didn't relate to the royal family, but was a personal project I was working on. For the birth times of Meghan, Harry and Archie I followed the AstroDatabank times and used Solar Fire 5 for calculations:

Meghan: 4:46 am PDT: Asc 0 Cancer 47
Harry: 4:20 pm BST: Asc 17 Sag 49
Archie: 5:26 am BST: Asc 18 Aries 37

Quote:
You mention Krishnamurti ayanamsa for Harry's Jupiter but seeing the variations between the various asc outputs compared to what I get in SJS for 04:57:45 PDT are these for KP or Khullers ayanamsa?
I assume KP but I don't have Khullers ayanamsa in my software so I couldn't tell.
[For 4:57:45 PDT using SJS 9 I get 3Ca14 KP ascendant just for another software comparison.]

I'm sorry, what is SJS?
The 57:45 time was related to my personal project.
I used the Krishnamurti ayanamsa. The Khullar ayanamsa is apparently very close to Lahiri. Of course the ayanamsa is critical for any work with Khullar's concepts. This is a developing system, and I think there will be modifications and changes as research goes on.

I'll check Harry's Jupiter in my three different programs. Solar Fire 5 which I used doesn't display seconds of arc.

Therese Hamilton
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:15 am
AJ, could you please post the Krishnamurti ascendants your software gives for the AstroDatabank birth times for Meghan, Harry, and Archie as noted in my previous post? Does your software give seconds of arc?

Maybe we should move the software comparison discussion to the sidereal forum?

AJ
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 10:56 am
Quote:
Hi AJ,
The example of different calculations I gave didn't relate to the royal family, but was a personal project I was working on. For the birth times of Meghan, Harry and Archie I followed the AstroDatabank times and used Solar Fire 5 for calculations:

I didn't realize it was for a different chart. Just assumed they were software variations for a time you used or were for illustrative purposes for rectifying Meghan's chart by the method you used maybe to show a refining technique. I see I read more into it LOL

SJS is Sri Jyoti Star software that I use for Indian astrology. It does not display to seconds of arc, only minutes. Harry's natal Ju is 10Sg01 according to SJS. using a BT of 16:20.
The ascendants are the same in SJS as you got from Solar Fire
Meghan: 4:46 am PDT: Asc 0 Ca 47
Harry: 4:20 pm BST: Asc 17 Sg 49
Archie: 5:26 am BST: Asc 18 Ar 37

PS
James and Therese: I think we should we bump the whole Meghan rectification over to the sidereal forum since it is the thread of the moment? Any objections?Don't want to step on any tropical toes and it is better suited there topically. I good juncture would be Therese's analysis to begin the thread.

james_m

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:48 am
hi therese and aj,

lets start a new thread if you want to do some work on megans chart in sidereal. thanks!

fwiw - here is megans data off adb..
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Meghan,_Duchess_of_Sussex

source notes for the aa rated time are - Birth certificate in hand from Viktor E.

Craft quotes same data from "Meghan: A Hollywood Princess" by Andrew Morton, pgs. 8 & 22, "at 4:46 in the morning of August 4, 1981 in West Park Hospital in Canoga Park in Los Angeles"

harrys chart on adb - https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Harry,_Duke_of_Sussex

source notes for the a rating - Dana Holliday quotes news on date; Sy Scholfield confirms same in March 2008.

Scholfield quotes official royal announcement in "Court Circular," The Times, Monday, 17 September 1984, p. 14: "September 15: The Princess of Wales was safely delivered of a son at 4.20 pm today"; "Debut of Prince Henry Charles Albert David: Cheering crowds as Princess leaves hospital," by Alan Hamilton, The Times, Monday, 17 September 1984, p. 1: "[At] St Mary's Hospital, Paddington [London] ... the Princess delivered the 6lb 14oz boy at 4.20 on Saturday afternoon."
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Mon May 13, 2019 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ wrote:
Quote:
SJS is Sri Jyoti Star software that I use for Indian astrology. It does not display to seconds of arc, only minutes. Harry's natal Ju is 10Sg01 according to SJS. using a BT of 16:20.
The ascendants are the same in SJS as you got from Solar Fire
Meghan: 4:46 am PDT: Asc 0 Ca 47
Harry: 4:20 pm BST: Asc 17 Sg 49
Archie: 5:26 am BST: Asc 18 Ar 37

Then it looks like we can rely on the western Solar Fire and Sri Jyoti Star. Parshara's Light 7 misses a little (for Harry 53 minutes for the ascendant instead of 49) and True Astrology misses a lot. That's not good as True Astrology was especially written to adjust the 12 house cusps in the very small KP sub-divisions. It's apparently accurate for cusp adjustment, but misses on the Ascendant. That means an incorrect birth time has to be entered in order to get the correct sub-divisions.

With the Krishnamurti ayanamsa, all programs place Harry's Jupiter in 10 Sag 01. The KP module in Parashara's light gives 10:01:28. So this places Jupiter in the navamsa of Cancer, currently Meghan's ascendant and navamsa ascendant sign. The ayanamsa is critical here because with Lahiri Harry's Jupiter is back in Gemini navamsa.
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AJ



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Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Therese wrote Next I'll look at Archie's birth time. There have to be certain relationships to the birth charts of the parents (Houses of the mother and father)

Just to get things rolling...
For fun I took the time to do nadi calculations on Archies 5:26 chart and the Ascendant, Nakshatra Lord and the tatwa at the given time of birth only allows for a female child. It's rather complicated to explain but suffice to say that's how I spent my morning after doing the calcs three times just to check myself. The earliest birth time that matches for Archie is 04:57 by this method. I won't say its infallible but uncannily close most of the time if you have a BT within 20-30 minutes.

The 04.57 doesn't change the overall tenor of the 5.26 chart much, except Me exactly conjunct the ascendant.

The 04:57 is more of a curiosity than any real sort of assay on the 05:26 chart. There are no meanignful contacts to Meghan's 01Ca rising chart. It is clearly not in the ballpark IMO.

In the 01Cancer rising chart for Meghan on the other hand, her Sun exactly on the fourth house equal bhava madhya (EBM) and her Mars exactly aspecting the 3rd, 6th, 9th and 10th EBM on Archies 05:26 chart. Meghans Venus is exactly (within a degree) conjunct the EBM of the fourth and aspecting the tenth house.

I do have additional comments on the 01Ca chart for Meghan that I still have to compile and much that bothers me about Archies chart. Not that the time is necessarily wrong, but his BT needs to be pretty much bonafide because at least from my armchair I cannot reconcile some things I see in chart with his dad and uncles horoscopes. I still have to look deeply at Meghan's. maybe should have spent my morning on that instead of the nadi stuff. Smile
Cheers.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ wrote:
Quote:
I do have additional comments on the 01Ca chart for Meghan that I still have to compile and much that bothers me about Archies chart. Not that the time is necessarily wrong, but his BT needs to be pretty much bonafide because at least from my armchair I cannot reconcile some things I see in chart with his dad and uncle's horoscopes. I still have to look deeply at Meghan's. maybe should have spent my morning on that instead of the nadi stuff.

Very interesting comments, AJ, which I'll reply to a bit later. I'm especially interested in what you see as questions about the relationship of Archie's chart to Harry and William's horoscopes. I don't know if this relates to your questions (and it is only hearsay), but a few years ago when a well traveled elderly friend visited she commented that discussion about Harry's parentage was common in palace circles.

I also want to do more work on these charts. I have a question for you. We all know that there is disagreement about whether the house of the father in India is the 9th or 10th. (I think north India favors the 9th, and south India favors the 10th?) What does your experience say about this, because one of the KP/Khullar methods of rectification involves the houses of the parents. Do you always use the equal house/cusp at center houses?

Please explain "tatwa" for readers. Thanks! S.P. Khullar explains that the motivation for his Kalamsa theory comes from studying Nadi texts. Khullar also describes a a method for determining the gender of a child which I haven't tested yet.
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AJ



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Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:

I also want to do more work on these charts. I have a question for you. We all know that there is disagreement about whether the house of the father in India is the 9th or 10th. (I think north India favors the 9th, and south India favors the 10th?) What does your experience say about this, because one of the KP/Khullar methods of rectification involves the houses of the parents. Do you always use the equal house/cusp at center houses? see below
I had both a southern Jyotish guru and a Northern one at different times. Both used the ninth house for the father and would admit that sometimes even the fourth could be for either parent. In my own experience and how I was taught, the ninth for father works well if there is an MT sign there. If not I see if the fourth house has an MT sign there, if neither the 9th or 4th has an MT sign I use the Sun and Jupiter. The Sun, of course, is the natural karaka for father. Some of the old texts mention the fourth house for father but its much further down in the lists. ?Kalamrita I think? I will mention that I take the same approach for the Mother except reversed, House 4, House 9 and the Moon.

My go-to for houses is the Equal Bhava Madhya System. I do use SrPati on occasion.
Let me explain...
The premise is simple, Equal Bhava Madhya combines whole sign houses with equal house cusps. The ascending degree becomes the most sensitive point for each whole sign house, but note that the house boundary does not extend beyond the whole house sign.

Equal Bhava Madhya is often shortened to EBM by its users. It’s easy enough for the most part to think in terms of whole sign houses when you see the abbreviation EBM.

When I was first introduced to this is was called the "Cuspal Degree of Influence." EBM is more descriptively accurate I think.

Bhava Madhya also has been used to describe the Indian Equal House System, so it’s easy to get them confused. The difference is that the Equal House System defines the house boundary as being 15° on either side of the cusp (ascending degree) and into the neighboring signs.

Please explain "tatwa" for readers. Thanks! S.P. Khullar explains that the motivation for his Kalamsa theory comes from studying Nadi texts. Khullar also describes a a method for determining the gender of a child which I haven't tested yet.
Tatwas are simply the 5 elements of Earth, Air, Fire, Water and Ether/Space collectively known as Bhutas, or lit. Truth. Tatwas means "things". Much like the Triplicities in the west, just that ether is an active element.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ, it's very interesting that what you describe as the Equal Bhava Madhya System is similar to Robert Schmidt's ultimate conclusion: That Hellenistic astrologers combined the ascendant degree with whole sign houses for different types of interpretation. For myself, I've found that the Indian equal house method works well. But for yogas it's always whole sign houses.

Following Khullar's dictum that the ascendant degree has to reflect in some way (preferably the planet ruling the sub-sub ascendant degree area), slightly rectifying Harry's chart time to 4:20:45 (as per Solar Fire 5), his ascendant adjusts to 18 Sag 01. As Harry's Moon is in the Sun's nakshatra/star (Krittika), this moves the ascendant from 17 Sag 49 to 18 Sag 01. Harry's chart is one of those very tight fits to the sub2 planet. There is only about a two astrological minute leeway to get the Sun as lord of the sub2 area.

This change is interesting because Archie's chart (as given) places 18+ degrees on the ascendant which falls on Harry's 5th house cusp. I have exactly the same situation in my family where my first child's Aries ascendant is trine mine (Sag) by degree, and falls on my 5th house cusp.
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AJ



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Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
AJ, it's very interesting that what you describe as the Equal Bhava Madhya System is similar to Robert Schmidt's ultimate conclusion: That Hellenistic astrologers combined the ascendant degree with whole sign houses for different types of interpretation. For myself, I've found that the Indian equal house method works well. But for yogas it's always whole sign houses.
I agree with what you say here.
When I was first learning, my gurus would start discussing a chart and mid discussion would say "this planet here was in this house glancing to another there"... etc. I would look at the chart and the planet(s) were in a different house than what they were talking about. This was very frustrating to a Learner and I soon came to realize that house systems and delineation can be quite fluid in Indian astrology. It was not unusual for them to use Equal House and/or SriPati with whole sign on the fly. I am very much now like my gurus I'm afraid.


PS...
Therese: BTW Thanks so much for taking the time doing such a clean job moving this thread over. I would have botched it myself.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ wrote:
Quote:
When I was first learning, my gurus would start discussing a chart and mid discussion would say "this planet here was in this house glancing to another there"... etc. I would look at the chart and the planet(s) were in a different house than what they were talking about. This was very frustrating to a Learner and I soon came to realize that house systems and delineation can be quite fluid in Indian astrology. It was not unusual for them to use Equal House and/or SriPati with whole sign on the fly. I am very much now like my gurus I'm afraid.

It's this type of fluidity that the Khullar system rejects. So S.P. Khullar came up with that is called a "closed system" that doesn't consider the many variations in interpretations. Years ago I studied the Khullar system, and then it faded into the background, I think because I was studying the new translations of classical western texts. Recently I went back to the KP/Khullar system in order to test it. I'm in that process now which is why I've been discussing Khullar rectification. But right away I'm questioning Placidus cusps (used in traditional KP/Khullar Kalamsa astrology) and instead testing equal cusps.

Working with clients where intuition is used generally results in fluid and "on the fly" interpretations. It's a different process than the scientific approach that has to rely on specific rules. The KP/Khullar system follows very specific rules. I'm not sure how suitable that system would be for client consultation. Intuition is right brain, rules and regulation are left brain.

More comments on the Royal charts soon.
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AJ



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Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
AJ wrote:
Quote:
When I was first learning, my gurus would start discussing a chart and mid discussion would say "this planet here was in this house glancing to another there"... etc. I would look at the chart and the planet(s) were in a different house than what they were talking about. This was very frustrating to a Learner and I soon came to realize that house systems and delineation can be quite fluid in Indian astrology. It was not unusual for them to use Equal House and/or SriPati with whole sign on the fly. I am very much now like my gurus I'm afraid.

It's this type of fluidity that the Khullar system rejects. So S.P. Khullar came up with that is called a "closed system" that doesn't consider the many variations in interpretations. Years ago I studied the Khullar system, and then it faded into the background, I think because I was studying the new translations of classical western texts. Recently I went back to the KP/Khullar system in order to test it. I'm in that process now which is why I've been discussing Khullar rectification. But right away I'm questioning Placidus cusps (used in traditional KP/Khullar Kalamsa astrology) and instead testing equal cusps.
I would not consider my methods an open system, actually just the opposite. Fluidity within an order is what I think we are talking about in this context and that is not "intuitive". It is still all about following a systematic method that is repeatable and consistent.
Ditto... on the royal charts.


More comments on the Royal charts soon.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ wrote:
Quote:
I would not consider my methods an open system, actually just the opposite. Fluidity within an order is what I think we are talking about in this context and that is not "intuitive". It is still all about following a systematic method that is repeatable and consistent.
Ditto... on the royal charts.

But if an astrologer jumps back and forth between the position of planets in different houses, how is that systematic? I can see that the Rasi position of planets is one thing, and the position of a planet in a specific bhava system is another, but using various bhava systems...that I don't see so clearly as being systematic.
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AJ



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Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
AJ wrote:
Quote:
I would not consider my methods an open system, actually just the opposite. Fluidity within an order is what I think we are talking about in this context and that is not "intuitive". It is still all about following a systematic method that is repeatable and consistent.
Ditto... on the royal charts.

But if an astrologer jumps back and forth between the position of planets in different houses, how is that systematic? I can see that the Rasi position of planets is one thing, and the position of a planet in a specific bhava system is another, but using various bhava systems...that I don't see so clearly as being systematic.

You yourself said that you used equal plus whole sign for yogas. I don't see the difference between us in that regard, but I don't want an argument either, its really not that important. I rarely need to look at a chart through other bhava systems but it can give insights if applied judiciously especially if you are following other discussions. My choice of words gave you the wrong impression I think.
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Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi therese and aj,

speaking of jumping back and forth - i am reminded of myself! is this a south node in gemini thang? lol... i need to be shooting with an arrow and i am dealing with the slayer of the real - mercury!!

i was looking at the navamsha charts and i did happen to notice the close connection between harrys jupiter and meghans rasi ascendant.. is this kp technique??

for me rectification is usually more like wrecktification.. i have found so much of it quite subjective in nature.. i have read books on it too.. i am not convinced of the art form, but do view it as an art form..

i like the old fashioned way - looking at connections via planets in others charts back to the original one under consideration... looking at cross aspects between charts...

i do find the close aspect between archies moon and harrys north node compelling.. in fact, there are a number of cross aspects of significance between the 2 charts. i realize this doesn't help with meghan, archies or harry rectification, but i think a lot can be gotten off these cross aspects without knowing the exact ascendant degree..

meghans part of fortune lands right on the same degree as archies moon and harrys north node as well for what that is worth... archies ascendant is exactly square meghans sun.. meghans ascendant is slightly more then a degree away from exact opposition to archies pluto.. meghans venus is within a degree of trine - 5th house - archies ascendant.. this is again repeated given how close the sun is in archies chart to the ascendant..

the only real inclusion of meghans 0 cancer rising degree is the 1 degree opposition to archies natal pluto..

although i looked at navamsha data, i did not look at nakshatra data.. i believe i understand what the techinque is that you are using therese, but i might only understand part of it... it would be good to see research work using this technique in the manner linchi shares with us, in order to appreciate it more... thanks for sharing!
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

Thanks for joining in! I don't have computer time right now, but wanted to ask if you use the mean or so-called "true" node? Also, AJ, have you found one better than the other? Apparently Krishnamurti preferred the true node. Kullar uses that also.

Quote:
I was looking at the navamsha charts and i did happen to notice the close connection between harrys jupiter and meghans rasi ascendant.. is this kp technique??

No, just the ordinary comparison of charts. I always check the navamsa charts between people, navamsa to navamsa and navamsa to natal.

More later when I have time.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3482
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi therese,

that is interesting about who uses the true verses the mean node... this came up in a conversation very recently... i have been using the mean node, as opposed to the true node.. the charts i post have the mean node on them... it can be as much as about 1-2 degrees out from the true node sometimes..

i can't remember what prash trivedi says in his rahu-ketu book.. let me go look... i can't find it and just running the first chart in the book he has for krishnamurti conflicts with the data adb has on krishnamurti..

funny enough in searching for that thread, i found a quote from you! you quoted fleurs comment, before making your comment..
"Fleur wrote:
Quote:
The effect of the Nodes can be stunningly measurable, especially when they are transiting. And I have found that overwhelmingly it is the Mean Node which is significant, not the "True" Node."

It's interesting that Celeste Teal writes in her book:

So in both cases the positions of the [mean and true] nodes are generally somewhat of an approximation, and they are never far apart from one another, within a degree or so. Due to their consistent retrograde motion, the mean lunar nodes are most relevant for a study of karmic and spiritual implications in a natal chart. When used as a timing device in progressions, it is also the mean nodes that appear to be most accurate."

i look forward to more from you later.. cheers james
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1445
Location: California, USA

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James wrote:
Quote:
i do find the close aspect between archies moon and harrys north node compelling.. in fact, there are a number of cross aspects of significance between the 2 charts. i realize this doesn't help with meghan, archies or harry rectification, but i think a lot can be gotten off these cross aspects without knowing the exact ascendant degree..

I still use cross aspects between charts when comparing individuals.

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Meghans part of fortune lands right on the same degree as archies moon

Interesting also that the Moon is lord of Archie's 4th house, said to be the house of the mother. This has to be a beneficial contact.

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and harrys north node as well for what that is worth... archies ascendant is exactly square meghans sun..

Or looking at it another way as AJ pointed out: Meghan's Sun is on Archie's nadir, equal midpoint of the 4th house.

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meghans ascendant is slightly more then a degree away from exact opposition to archies pluto..

Out of sign, however. I generally give less emphasis to out-of-sign aspects.

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Meghans venus is within a degree of trine - 5th house - archies ascendant.. this is again repeated given how close the sun is in archies chart to the ascendant..

There should be strong affection between them, though Archie and Meghan are very different people (Suns in square).

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. i believe i understand what the technique is that you are using therese, but i might only understand part of it... it would be good to see research work using this technique in the manner linchi shares with us, in order to appreciate it more... thanks for sharing!

I'm having major trouble with the software I need for the rectification technique. I asked if there was an upgrade (company in India) and they sent an upgrade download link without informing me it was for Windows 10. My computer is XP which I use to keep AstroDatabank running. So the software messed up parts of XP, and now the program isn't running correctly. (After uninstalling the new version and re-installing the old version.) I'm waiting to see if there is a way to get XP and the program back to normal.

Thank you for your comments on the nodes. I have always favored the mean nodes, but my own chart presents the problem that Ketu changes nakshatras between mean and true nodes. Using the KP technique of nakshatra lords being activated by resident planets, in this case only the true node works well. Also the more accurate node according to the authors of the Betz ephemeris which in this case is closer to the true node, in Mercury's star (Reveti).
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