skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Opposition in an Argument Horary

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 874

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 7:59 pm    Post subject: Opposition in an Argument Horary Reply with quote



May 1, 2019 at 22:44, Dublin, Ca

Hello,

We don't see a lot of horaries with oppositions that have outcomes, so I thought I would share one for fun.

Primary motivation for the question/background: I had a day previously emailed a professor of one of my courses because I was surprised by my final grade, since it was a fairly easy course and I felt I worked hard and did well in it. After the initial email I still felt that his grade scheme was unfair and that I did not deserve the grade I was getting but did not feel my point was coming across to him. It was something that was bothering me because I felt it was unjust, and not just for myself but for several friends in my class and others that I spoke to. One huge issue I was dealing with that lead me to reach out to him was that he had made last minute changes to grades that were more harsh and brought many people down a grade rather than helping them. I had actually expected him to be more lenient rather than more strict. I believe this can be explained by the separating Mercury-Saturn square showing strict decisions. I had a goal to graduate with a 4.0 GPA and his seemingly arbitrary decision at the end of the semester about grades would lead to that not happening, which I found surprising considering it was one of my easier courses. I normally would not argue over grades but I felt like I had something worth arguing over.

My question: Whether or not my contacting the professor again would make a difference in my grade (as well as the rest of the class - since I had 4 friends in it who were in similar situations and I am very active in discussions with other students too). My horary was basically a question of whether I was wasting my time keeping a discussion with this professor (a young male professor). I wanted to see if contacting him again was going to help my situation (which would help theirs too) or just lead me to anger him or where he would just ignore me. Since the professor had a high opinion of me, I was also partly afraid to ruin that in case I needed a letter of recommendation down the road, etc. I did not feel like my first email was to the point about my case but I was afraid that I would end up sounding combative or whiny. I felt like I needed to better express the problem to him but was unsure if he would be receptive.

I later emailed him again but was more to-the-point about my argument... This was a matter that I felt very strongly opposed to and had trouble sleeping over it. Final grades were turned in today, so I have the final outcome.

Question to the forum: I am curious what others make of the opposition here. What do you think the symbolism of the planets shows and who do you think "wins" in the argument (if anyone, since Mercury prohibits the opposition and translates the light of a sextile via a trine instead)? I was on the fence myself so would be curious to see if anyone sees something I did not. I assigned the professor as the 7th only because it was a disagreement and the horary presented itself that way but the Sun could potentially co-rule him, since he is young and friendly and easy-going usually. Obviously the 7th is ruled by Mercury too, which rules emails and communications.


Last edited by Tanit3333 on Sun May 05, 2019 8:06 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 317

Posted: Sat May 04, 2019 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: Opposition in an Argument Horary Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:

May 1, 2019 at 22:44, Dublin, Ca

Hello,

We don't see a lot of horaries with oppositions that have outcomes, so I thought I would share one for fun. I had emailed a professor of one of my courses because I was surprised by my final grade, since it was a fairly easy course and I felt I worked hard and did well in it. After the email I still felt that his grade scheme was unfair and that I did not deserve the grade I was getting but did not feel my point was coming across to him. My horary was basically a question of whether I was wasting my time keeping a discussion with this professor (a young male professor). It was something that was bothering me because I felt it was unjust, and not just for myself but for several friends in my class and others that I spoke to. I later emailed him again but was more to-the-point about my argument... This was a matter that I felt very strongly opposed to and had trouble sleeping over it. Final grades were turned in today, so I have the final outcome.


Hi Tanit,

I am puzzled about two (?) final grades… but I figured you will explain to me later so I’m going to post my answer now.

I just scanned the overall map of your situation and from that, I would say your grade was positive. The key players are in angles (they are all strong) but I’m looking from the point of view of essential and accidental dignities and your significator, Jupiter is very strong. I think even retrograde is not accidental debility in your case.

I checked Jupiter against other actions:

Mercury square Mars, the Moon and Venus disposed by Mars. Mars rules your hope and wishes (11th) and secret enemy (12th) at the same time.

The Sun, the co-ruler of professor, is disposed by your MC ruler Venus (your career) and Jupiter has triplicity in Leo.

Pisces and Virgo (3rd vs 9th) are two intercepted houses indicating your email to professor -- show communication not in front of other students in the class but by email. Mars rules 4th house of outcome. Separating sextile and mutual reception between Mercury and Mars show outcome will be OK. Saturn conjunct PoF in your 2nd house shows delayed result. (I truly hope I have a correct reading).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 874

Posted: Sat May 04, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PoF - sorry for the confusing explanation. There is only one grade, but we see our final grade from the prof before he submits them to the school (which is basically the final, final grade), in case there is an error in our grade, etc.

Great comments, thanks PoF. I agree that Jupiter being strong is promising and that was the primary reason I emailed him again. I believe is showed that I had the strength to argue my point and/or that I deserved a higher grade. What mainly gave me pause was Jupiter retro but there are a few possible explanations: one was that I was emailing him again, another is that the matter had me very undecided as to whether I would email him again and I almost did not. Lilly says that a retro querent can show that their actions can be unpredictable, which was true for me, since I was not on a straight path to emailing him again and only did so when I was tired of internal struggle and lack of sleep. I felt like I wouldn't have peace until I was clear about my point. You could say that being strong but retro might suggest that even though you are undecided on what to do, it might be better to do the thing asked about or that you could do so if you chose to. Jupiter is also a stronger planet than Mars and in this case holds essential strength too, which I was surprised to see when I asked the question. Jupiter also tends to represent justice and doing what is right for the greater good.

Mercury does not square Mars or else I would have been more fearful to email him. The fact that Mars and Jupiter were applying to each other made me worry that I would get into a heated argument but I had hoped the influence of Mercury prohibiting would help. It sextiles Mars and then translates that sextile via a trine to Jupiter. Mercury I think describes the professor well in this case - again, young (also muscular, smart, quick at responding usually). Mercury also had squared Saturn previously and I wonder if that also factored into his thought process (I typically see Mercury-Saturn in hard aspect as being unyielding and strict).

One interesting thing I also noticed was that while Mars is opposite Jupiter in his house, he as Mercury is in a sign that is both the triplicity of Jupiter and the rulership of Mars, so I wondered if he would make a compromise. I felt that the signification of Mars showed that he did not agree with me overall but there was some internal stuff going on that made him see my point of view. I was very skeptical though because many other students had already argued with him to no avail.

I will leave this up a little while in case anyone else wants to comment first before the complete outcome. What especially had me puzzled was the signification of Venus ruling the 10th with the Moon but I feel there is an explanation for that too. I doubt it would be possible to predict that without knowing more about the structure of my course though and think it is a minor thing (other than it is a bit positive for the Moon to apply to a benefic and its aspect to Mars would suggest a mitigating factor, since Venus is even better than Jupiter in most cases in mitigating Mars, according to Bonatti). Moon is definitely in a fighting sign.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 206

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tanit

I have just read your first introductory post because I also wish to see for fun what I see in the chart.

But before doing that need a help from you. Can you please share what was the exact question you asked in this horary?

After you answer I will just try to figure out the horary , then read the other posts to aee if you have already posted the outcome

Then if I have something to add to the discussion I will.

Thanks for sharing Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 874

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Serene -

I will edit my original post, since it might not be clear enough. Thanks for pointing that out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Serene



Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Posts: 206

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the edit Tanit. I will share my thoughts shortly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Breeze



Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 230

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tanit,

I am usually reluctant to comment for others’ charts in order to avoid danger of inventing stoes , but this time I have decided to take the risk, as the chart is very like to have a happy outcome Smile

Two things catch my attention in this chart - Venus and the 2nd. House.

5th. Rules the speculations i.e. if something will happen or not. And you were speculating about if you would get a higher degree or not.

Moon conjuncts Venus, the ruler of 5th. I see this as another testimony for a positive outcome futher to what PoF says.

2nd. house rules the “worth” and what we “have”. I have seen in my own charts so many times that , 2nd house is often involved when iI ask a question like “ shd I do that” type of questions . Finding out 2nd house is so often involved, I conculeded that I was actually trying to find out the “worth” of doing that thing.

I see a similiar thing in this chart , too.

Saturn might be a restrictive planet itself, but I see this 2nd. House Saturn as the symbol of what you “gained” after all your efforts , your hard-work, and what you “get” from the exam which is your degree.

Both, Sun - the ruler of higher education,, and Venus are applying to Saturn.

It is as if, all that your speculation ( venus) is nothing to worry about ( venus is at Saturn’s fall), and that you will alreay get what you want which is about your higher school ( Saturn-Sun trine, Sun in the earth triplicity as Saturn).

And the prof was far away to see how you did at exam ( mercıury approchef to Saturn from Saturn’s fall)

Wel...this is how I see the chart additionally.
If I made up a story, pls. Do not hesisate to tell me.
I have Sun conjuct Pluto in the 1st. in my natal. I love the truth, even it hurts Wink Smile
_________________
Breeze
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 317

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to hear from you, Breeze!

Welcome back Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 874

Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello -

Thanks to those who have attempted the activity of the outcome on a somewhat difficult chart, considering the opposition (and great job!). I always find it interesting when astrologer's use different methods but still have similar results.

I especially thought it was a useful horary to share for situations where significators were in opposition. For myself, I do not see this often, especially with a good outcome, but it is usually when there is a disagreement when it is a question of interactions with people.


Outcome: After I emailed the professor again, he never responded to my email directly but posted a public announcement in our online system that he raised everyone's grade by a small margin due to many people being on the cusp of the next grade. Some of the things he mentioned in the announcement specifically addressed my arguments for raising the grades (which I won't go into but suggested that he had read my email). His percentage increase was also the exact amount I needed to receive an 'A' grade. In my study group, many students said thank you to me because they felt that it was I who had changed his mind in the end (since he was not listening to others). I achieved my primary goal, which was to graduate with a 4.0 GPA and all of my friends in the class had their grades bumped up and were happy and thanked me directly. One even sent me a thank you gift of sorts. Since the professor did not respond to my email, I felt a little uneasy in the end about it though because I am not sure if he felt I was too combative or not.

Astrologer's interpretation: As I mentioned, Mercury prohibits the Mars-Jupiter opp and carries the light of a Mars sextile via trine to Jupiter, suggesting likely a better outcome than the first email. Again, I assumed Mercury was the prof/email/communications based on how the chart presented itself rather than specific significators and I think Mercury in Aries describes him well. I believe Venus in the 4th ruling the 10th with the Moon is the future public announcement, which brought to light a private email in a sense, since I guess many in the class found out I had convinced him about grades. Venus in Aries is in my natal in the 10th ruling the 11th conjunct Mars and I can be diplomatic but also forceful. Moon applying to a benefic in general also suggests an easier outcome. I think here it could also be representing the goal (10th) and maybe even the rest of the class and it is received by Mars (Mars representing the disagreement about grades, since it is opp the querent and angular in the 7th house of competition/disagreements/other people) and is applying via sextile to Mars and then trine Jupiter. It had previously aspected Mercury but Venus itself is fairly weak (probably without the aid of Jupiter) and it gave that light to Saturn, again suggesting harsh grades previously. Venus in Aries in the 4th may also show that the end result (4th) left me feeling a little embarrassed and unsure of how the professor felt about the email, since he never responded. The Jupiter-Neptune square in T square with Mars also might show that my previous email was not clear enough and that I needed to get to the point of the matter in my response (which I believe I did).

However, I feel the strongest argument for an outcome on the querent's side is likely due to Jupiter being a stronger planet than Mars. It may be argued that a retro planet is fairly weak but in general Jupiter is more superior than Mars and is essentially dignified. It is also a dexter aspect, since Mars applies facing towards Jupiter rather than from behind, where Jupiter as the receiving planet in the aspect is considered more forceful than the applying planet. This could suggest that in the end my argument for changing his grade system was stronger than his argument for not. The Moon is also accidentally pretty forceful and again applies to a benefic. I like that the chart as a whole represents the situation and people well. As often happens for my own charts, it shows my personality well too (I have 5 fire planets, including Moon and Jupiter in a fire sign and ASC ruler in Sag). Fire tends to show action and possibly endeavor for change. I was also happy that the angles were not fixed, meaning I felt like the there was still potential for change in the matter. That is often the first thing I look at in a chart.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 317

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breeze wrote:
Hi Tanit,

I am usually reluctant to comment for others’ charts in order to avoid danger of inventing stoes , but this time I have decided to take the risk, as the chart is very like to have a happy outcome Smile

Two things catch my attention in this chart - Venus and the 2nd. House.

5th. Rules the speculations i.e. if something will happen or not. And you were speculating about if you would get a higher degree or not.

Moon conjuncts Venus, the ruler of 5th. I see this as another testimony for a positive outcome futher to what PoF says.

2nd. house rules the “worth” and what we “have”. I have seen in my own charts so many times that , 2nd house is often involved when iI ask a question like “ shd I do that” type of questions . Finding out 2nd house is so often involved, I conculeded that I was actually trying to find out the “worth” of doing that thing.

I see a similiar thing in this chart , too.

Saturn might be a restrictive planet itself, but I see this 2nd. House Saturn as the symbol of what you “gained” after all your efforts , your hard-work, and what you “get” from the exam which is your degree.

Both, Sun - the ruler of higher education,, and Venus are applying to Saturn.

It is as if, all that your speculation ( venus) is nothing to worry about ( venus is at Saturn’s fall), and that you will alreay get what you want which is about your higher school ( Saturn-Sun trine, Sun in the earth triplicity as Saturn).

And the prof was far away to see how you did at exam ( mercıury approchef to Saturn from Saturn’s fall)

Wel...this is how I see the chart additionally.
If I made up a story, pls. Do not hesisate to tell me.
I have Sun conjuct Pluto in the 1st. in my natal. I love the truth, even it hurts Wink Smile


I was re-reading Breeze’s reply and thinking she gave a very interesting reading. A thought came to my mind that I think you, Tanit, gave this young professor a valuable lesson. I am saying this through my own experience. I used to teach fine art classes to graduate and undergraduate students, as well as one-to-one sessions with graduate students. It is a known fact among us that we do learn from our talented students. This I think is shown by the Sun approaching Part of Fortune (not showing here but Fortuna is at 17*54’-- conjunct radix 2nd and Saturn) in Capricorn.

The Sun represents the professor and he is placed in your 5th house of creativity. His ascendant is radix 9th, and radix 5th is turned 9th from his ascendant (under rulership of Venus). Venus is also ruling your future career (10th). As I mentioned in my earlier reply, you are very strong and even retrograde Jupiter is not accidental debility in your case because you sent him email twice (repeat/retrograde) and you thought that your second email must have impressed him. He is in fixed sign, you probably will never hear his acknowledgement, but other people appreciated you and I believe so did your young professor (and I won’t be surprised if he keeps this incident in mind since PoF/Saturn in Capricorn lesson lasts throughout his career).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 874

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi PoF - you are correct that he holds me (or at least held) in high regard. He had contacted me previously to ask if he could help me apply to the PhD program and I am guessing would have accepted me into his lab, if I had applied. He told me that he thought I was basically his most exceptional student based on my knowledge and participation in class (and helping other students with questions). I would have liked to work with him more and think he does really interesting research but am going to focus on an executive molecular PhD program I can do while working full time. Hopefully our disagreement did not interfere with his regard for me and I appreciate that you saw that it did not, so thanks for that. I hope he learned from me as well and I gave him a lot of feedback throughout the semester. I am guessing maybe he will rethink his grading scheme now too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Breeze



Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 230

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Part of Fortune,
With regards to your recent post; I do not know if I am right or not with my predicition, but I just feel happy that it gave some idea for further analyzes.
Many thanks for sharing this.
Cheers
_________________
Breeze
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated