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Alistair Campbell's Depression ?

 
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WooWoo



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 1362

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 10:22 am    Post subject: Alistair Campbell's Depression ? Reply with quote

Hello,

I feel Astrologers don't do enough to help tackle Illness.

Alaistair Campbell has gone public about his problems with Depression.

I feel that gives us a good chance to examine such an issue.

Even more he states he is in search of answers to the problems he faces.

Why does he get Depressed ?

He was born in Keighley in Yorkshire on the 25th May 1957.

I'll try to find his birth time too as it is essential for this.

Chip in if you know more but Significant Others I feel is an area that needs to be dealt with ALWAYs in Natal Astrology.

I'd certainly refer him to Gauguelin's work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_effect

H
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 755

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi WooWoo,

I think astrologers do often analyze potential for illness in a chart and those who use predictive methods may state times when that might be more problematic. Modern astrology especially has a self-help approach and uses character analysis to try to better understand oneself, which could possibly address some mental health issues. If you look back on mystery chart threads, many of us brought up either physical or mental health issues we saw as potential problems. For example, in Paul's thread about his friend, it seemed obvious they would deal with episodes of depression and Paul said they are indeed melancholic, which is a humour that is more susceptible to depression.

Still, ultimately, an astrologer is not a mental health professional and someone with mental illness should seek a clinician for diagnosis and treatment. I think it is also dangerous to assume that certain signatures are destined towards having serious mental health issues, such as Fleur's example chart in another thread of a neuroscientist who has astrological signatures we would often attribute to mental illness. To predict something terrible and for it to not be true to me is as difficult for someone to deal with as a wrong medical diagnosis, such as telling someone they have cancer when they don't. So, an astrologer has to be careful how they approach what they see as possible mental health issues and be open to the fact that it could show potential but does not necessarily mean what they think it means. I have certainly opened up cans of worms in horary threads relating to mental illness also, due to my over-zealous connections of certain signatures, although usually it is more simplistic with significators than a natal chart. For example, I remember a chart shared on a romantic interest with Venus besieged and the quesited ended up being abusive to women and a drug addict and other difficult areas (and Venus was also besieged in his natal chart): http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9999&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
If the quesited had been the person coming to us for advice and was represented this way, I have no idea what I would even say to them. The chart creeped me out and seemed like a red flag to the querent to be careful (and not alone with the quesited). How would you even approach sexual deviance/mental health issues that are possibly a danger from someone when you are not a professional?
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3361
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi woowoo,

i would like to thank tanit for articulating what she does here... astrologers are not professionals in psychology or medicine.. while an astrologer might be able to help in by sharing astro insights on timing or periods of time where the issue of depression is more pronounced, it is beyond the realm of astrologers in many other respects... and i like how tanit talked about being over zealous on certain signatures that might lead then to improperly diagnose a chart as well.. thanks tanit...

there is an article on the side panel by judith hill 'the astrology of depression' you might want to read up on.. http://skyscript.co.uk/astrology_of_depression.html

i was curious to look at campbells chart.. unfortunately there is no birth time given, so this will be a very general comment on the fellows chart.. first off - the planet saturn is most associated with depression..

here is a chart for the day he is born in sidereal set to noon his place of birth..



leaving out the outer planets one can see that saturn sits alone on one side of the chart... it is in 150 degree aspects to mercury and mars forming what is called a yod in modern astrology... in fact - saturn is at the midpoint of mercury-mars... at the same time saturn is in opposition to his sun-venus combo in taurus.. all of these astro factors - without even knowing what specific time he is born to know the degree of his moon, or the house position of all the planets, still show a chart tied up with saturn in challenging aspects to important points in his chart.. it would be good to know the time of his birth to know just how close the transit of saturn is to his moon at present, or to what motivated him to come out publicly at this time and want to talk about it.. without a birth time there is a lot less to go off of..

thanks for sharing..
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 755

Posted: Thu May 23, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like this person has a relative with schizophrenia and it could be that mental health issues run in his family.

Without a time of birth, it would be hard for even a great astrologer to comment much, especially a traditional one who looks at planetary sect. I am guessing he probably has a night chart with a more difficult Saturn and emphasized Moon as the luminary of sect. Saturn opposes his Sun and Venus and trines his Moon. Obviously a lot depends on rulerships, house placements, etc. Saturn in the 6th is classically a difficult placement and can show mental illness, for example, probably especially if aspecting the Moon. Also, Mercury in a melancholic sign (Taurus in sidereal and western) with the SN in a wide orb could be contributing. His Moon degree is also questionable and could even be besieged.
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WooWoo



Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 1362

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Folks,

I'm trying to contact Mr Campbell to get his Time of Birth. Hard without that.

If he engages then I might try to get the DOBs of his Parents and Siblings.

I feel understanding the Angsts or Joys Significant Others add to our Charts isn't often looked into carefully.

Hard to get all the data sometimes I know.

Tan you seem to specialise in Besiegements.

I used to understand that they were pretty simple and usually between Mars and Saturn in the same Sign.

Sort of thing people miss along with Intercepted Signs and Combustions.

Would you be kind enough to share your approach and what you are looking out for ?

Cheers,

H

PS I had Theresa's departure at 3am Thursday 6th June UKT.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 755

Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woowoo- besiegment is not that common and usually has some sort of significance. It is something in traditional sources that I think is worth noting, probably especially for the luminaries. Besiegment implies going from one difficult situation to another. Normally you would prefer to go from a difficult situation to a better one or at least to take a good influence into a bad situation. It can help if the malefics are essentially good and if they receive the planet too though, and if the planet has essential dignity and is not cadent (according to Bonatti - who also places emphasis on benefics being potential mitigating factors whenever they aspect a planet, especially if they are strong and receive them). I do not just look at hard aspects. In horary and election it made no difference if the aspect was hard or not so I doubt natal is different.

I notice the nature of certain aspects perhaps better than some natal astrologers because in horary we often see patterns of questions around certain types of aspects. In horary/event charts when certain transits occur certain questions tend to pop up - if Venus is besieged you will more likely see very difficult love charts, etc. In my own educational issues, I especially noticed Mercury besieged impacting intelligence - there were certain very memorable exams scheduled around a besieged Mercury, and I think even Moon was besieged with it during another exam. The entire class said the exams for this course were a nightmare and the averages were in the 40% range (out of 100%). I don't know anyone in the course who did not mention the course causing anxiety and it even made me physically ill from stress (although I got a top score -helped by my own Mercury). A friend also had scheduled a computerized exam during a besieged Mercury (I think it was retro too) and I told her to reschedule. She did not listen and failed the exam and had to repeat the course. She asked me why I asked her to reschedule and I told her after the fact - this raised her interest in astrology. Obviously it depends on the chart type but I have never seen a besieged planet not have some significance. Most people who have planets aspecting Mars and Saturn do not fit the criteria of besiegment though because usually either the aspects don't fit or another planet steps in between them, so I don't see it very often.

For the Moon, it is in part in charge of the mind/emotions and if the luminary of sect (or chart ruler or stronger than Sun) it can be even more significant, so if it is carrying the light of malefics, where it separates from one and goes to another, that seems to weigh pretty heavy on such things as mental/physical health as well as just general ability for the person to be happy. I honestly cannot think of many examples where someone even has a besieged Moon in natal because it happens so infrequently, probably in part because if the luminaries are so afflicted it can reduce lifespan. Even if not besieged, if a luminary is aspecting both malefics and is not mitigated, it is in general showing augmented difficulty. As someone with Moon square Saturn, I know how difficult that influence alone is, especially during certain transits, such as Saturn returns or transit Saturn conjunct Moon. He doesn't have a Saturn square but adding Mars on top of that - it could be rough. It could show extreme external forces working against you that can cause unhappiness too, so not necessarily mental illness (although I do not have a besieged Moon, I can say that my Moon-Saturn square is quite difficult - Moon rules my chart and is in the 6th and I grew up constantly suffering from infections, impoverished, was homeless as a kid, and during my Saturn return I was made homeless and had to live with family for a time). My Saturn aspect is separating and my Moon gains mitigating aspects from Venus and Jupiter (which receives it) and I always interpreted this as the beginning of life being more difficult and overcoming difficulty. If someone has the aspect just going to another bad situation, then that could show constant struggles, which could obviously cause unhappiness or mental anguish.

There are a lot of threads on besiegment in the forums, if you are interested in reading about it. Tom posted some traditional quotes here:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=156

Bonatti's Considerations is another source where you can find aphorisms on besiegment:
https://www.renaissanceastrology.com/bonatti146considerations.html
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3361
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

great comments tanit... thanks... it seems that you have altered some of what you said from a day or two ago as i recall you talking about your parents - dad - when i last looked at this post.. it is all okay.. i appreciate your insights and all you have to share! thanks..
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 755

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James -yes, his chart has some similarities to my father's chart, who clearly suffered from manic depression and was an unstable genius. He doesn't have nodal emphasis on the Moon like my father though. The north node with the Moon I have heard discussed as a potential indicator for mania or even losing ones mind, since the NN is so consuming. My father also lost his mind in an older age after a bad motorcycle accident and is now mentally disabled (his Moon-NN conjunction is pretty tight and on the DSC which is associated with older age).
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james_m



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Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tanit,

i have been reading about yogas in indian astrology.. i have a book called 300 important combinations by b.v. raman.. i can't find the yoga since reading it in this book where the moon is connected to rahu - the north node, in the same sign and also with saturn... basically in itself it is associated with mental health problems.. i imagine the closer the aspects, the more severe the situation... it can probably be offset by benefics tied into it as well.. perhaps other factors like - waning, verses waxing moon, nocturnal verses diurnal and on and on can be factored in as well.. essentially though from my reading of indian astro lit, the moon is very much associated with the mind, perhaps even more then mercury is..

as for the nodes - they are a bit of a mystery and any mystery is viewed differently by others.. until the mystery is unraveled, they seem to be generally viewed in a malefic way, but i don't think this is a correct read on them.. i think it is a lot more nuanced, but i am not able to provide much insight more then this.. i am sorry to hear of the challenges your dad has faced and the challenges you must have faced living in this type of environment growing up.. it may have been a blessing in disguise too.. good fortune often leans on bad and vice versa..

http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?l=Daodejing&no=58
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 755

Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a link to Alistair's natal chart in western with unknown time:
https://birthcharts.astro-seek.com/birth-chart/alastair-campbell-horoscope

Hi James - his is not really with Saturn (a loose square) but technically my Moon square Saturn would square my NN since it is with Saturn (and conjuncts his Moon-NN - we have a NN-NN conjunction, Moon-Saturn conjunction, Moon-Moon square in synastry emphasized). I do not suffer from mental health issues (other than anxiety sometimes) but Saturn can co rule the father and his own issues greatly impacted my own life. My father's is with a difficult Mars though (sextile) which was activated at the time of the accident where he was left in a coma and never recovered his mental capacity and is an invalid. He once told me it was his greatest fear to lose his mind, and again, I must emphasize that this is a very brilliant person prior to the accident (albeit with mental instability). This may not relate well to a post on depression but ultimately the mind is what we would be analyzing in a chart in some capacity, since depression is something that occurs in the mind. It would be hard for me to say if this nodal placement explains his mental disability or his manic depression but it could explain possibly both (in addition to obviously being extremely Gemini and that adding some mental changefulness perhaps, and Sun conjunct Uranus/Saturn could add to that up and down effect). His manic depression was severe and he could not hold down steady work due to this.

My father's chart is pretty interesting for the accident that left him mentally disabled, if anyone is interested to see the links (there is a lot activated in transit at the time). It was during a manic episode where he was in a motorcycle accident and he was not wearing a helmet, and was the only person impacted. He had called me before the accident and seemed manic to me. I do not remember the exact time but it was somewhere around 3 PM. I definitely know the day well. He was in his 63rd (almost 64th) year, and since his ascendant is close to 10 degrees, he would have been in a 5th house profection, with Moon lording and also that Mars being more activated (brought to the profected ascendant).

His Mercury is fortified by two benefics (although both essentially poor) and is very strong itself so I honestly think the Moon explains his issues. Check out transit Uranus. It was also a full Moon.


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james_m



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Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tanit,

thanks for sharing the astro data on your dads chart and the time of the motorcycle accident..

in indian astrology, there are different schools, but for example some of the schools pay more attention to aspects and exactitude then others... so these yogas - planetary combinations in a certain set up - are very open to interpretation and speculation.. hindsight is 20/20, lol... although, i was unable to find the yoga that i mentioned which also includes saturn - here is one that is similar, but not the same... as you can see from the charts - degrees are not considered... however the set up is in lagna - or ascendant, while your dads set up is in the descendant..

http://www.theastrojunction.com/2014/03/pishacha-grasta-yoga.html

prash trivedi in his book 'the rahu ketu experience has a lot to say on this conjunction, some of which i will quote.. " in its positive aspect this conjunction vitalizes the lunar energy and as a result strengthens the mind......
further down - in its negative aspect it furthers the dark side of the lunar nature which as discussed earlier furthers emotional and psychological disturbances, fear and phobias, isolation, lunacy hallucination, illusion, paranoia and other such distorted mental states.. .. nietzche has the conjunction (in the ascendant and is one example for further study.).""

if i was looking at it from the pov of western astro - my focus usually - i would note how pluto is at the midpoint of mercury-moon.. this might suggest certain mental obsessions.. another midpoint that is applying about a degree out is mercury at the saturn-mars midpoint which is kind of a critical midpoint given the importance of mercury to your dads chart... ebertin in his book the combination of stellar influences says on mercury at the mars-saturn midpoint - thoughtlessness, hopelessness - thoughts on separation, illness, death or the next world beyond.. - news of mourning and bereavement ( murderers).. of course ebertins descriptions are quite dark which might be in keeping with his world view in germany in the earlier part of the 20th century...
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Fleur



Joined: 05 Feb 2014
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Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is only one observation, but I remember once looking at the chart of a man who had been diagnosed with bipolar depression, and his chart had a striking (orbs under 1 degree, hard aspects) aspect of the Sun to both Saturn and Uranus, and I remember saying to him I don't know how to interpret that.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fleur - possibly, but the chart for his episode that lead to self harm had an emphasized Moon that year and Uranus opp that Moon on the ASC. It was a long mania episode and when he called me before his accident I remember being extremely tired of dealing with him and wished that he would get help. I was in college in my 20s at the time and had no control over him though. I am sure it is part of it all (as I mentioned, an up and down effect of Uranus versus Saturn) but I feel like the Moon-NN is the icing on the cake for his issues. I have heard it described by other astrologers who study the nodes as a possible indication of mania and losing one's mind. Plus, as I said his Moon/NN conjuncts my Saturn/NN square my Moon and I think that aspect in my own charts sums up our relationship well due to his mental illness that afflicted my early life. He was always a burden and extremly emotionally abusive and selfish (and still is - two of my elder sisters take care of his medical/invalid housing situation, I just send them money). Moon is also his luminary of sect, so more important than the Sun. I have known bipolar people, in fact one of my longtime friends of about 15 years, and they can lead normal lives with some help. His issues seemed uncontrollable and he was unwilling to get help - which consumed him and everyone else around him. To me that seems more dragon's head; all consuming. My friend who has it has essentially bad Mars tightly conjunct NN squared by Moon and Sun opp a not tight Uranus (with Moon in 8th and Uranus in the 1st).
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