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benefics and malefics in indian astrology
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3424
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:46 pm    Post subject: benefics and malefics in indian astrology Reply with quote

this is a tricky concept to wrap my head around... i suspect it takes time to learn the ropes!!!

okay, this fellow on the net - VS- has a nifty article on malefics and benefics here

http://www.theartofvedicastrology.com/?page_id=372

and a nifty chart detailing it all is here -
http://www.theartofvedicastrology.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Functional-Nature-of-planets.jpg

he says somewhere on his site how he views the rulerships of rahu and ketu, and as a consequence they end up being malefics or benefics based on his idea on who rules them.. other then that, i was able to digest the ideas fairly easily..

aj - does your Shri Jyoti Star 9 astro prog do similar tables as are found on towards the bottom of this article? curious - thanks!
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 187

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: benefics and malefics in indian astrology Reply with quote

james_m wrote:

aj - does your Shri Jyoti Star 9 astro prog do similar tables as are found on towards the bottom of this article? curious - thanks!

Nothing that comprehensive in one place, it will list a breakdown of the shadbala calcs.
Cheers.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I mentioned somewhere before that the very best list of planets for ascendants is in Dr. K.S. Charak's Elements of Vedic Astrology I. Something is lost in understanding when planets are listed simply as "positive" or "negative" as in your referenced list, James. The traditional terms are benefic and malefic, plus marakas (death inflicting planets) and Yogakarakas, the planets that are said to cause the best effects in a chart. Anyway, I find Dr. Charak's details and text explanations helpful in mentally setting the relationship of various planets to different ascendants (12 pages).

Dr. Charak's books are kind of a bridge between traditional Jyotish and the modern western re-hash, where much is lost of the underlying spiritual energy of traditional India. This is something I find difficult to put into words. It has to do with the underlying vibrations felt when reading or studying texts or connecting with contemporary authors.

I think if a student wants to learn India's astrology, and doesn't have the opportunity to study with a guru (or gurus), then the best option is to concentrate on texts that carry the ancient Indian "vibes" as would be said today. This means staying with Indian authors such as K.N. Rao and Dr. Charak, plus some of the older astrologers who are no longer with us.
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james_m



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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks aj and therese for the feedback here..

therese - i agree with you... the idea of positive and negative, or +1, and -1 type descriptions lose in translation the basis for the ideas behind them.. i would be interested to read k s charaks book... i have too many on the go at present and not sure when this will happen though... thanks... it's good for others to know as well..
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Devaacharyam



Joined: 03 Jul 2019
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Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also note Parashara and Jaimini can have different benefics, malefics depending on conditions.

For example Ketu can be very beneficial and the 2nd best giver of yoga in jaimini after jupiter accoriding to Krishnamishra in his Phalaratnamala.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devaacharyam, you are new here and obviously have a solid foundation in India's astrology. Could you tell us something about your background and training? And if you want to share your real name? I do have trouble especially on astrological forums where those who post use screen names which gives us no idea about who they are. This wouldn't be done on professional academic forums, and is one reason astrology remains in the entertainment field and is not respected as a discipline.
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Devaacharyam



Joined: 03 Jul 2019
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Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure! I started from a young age, learned from family mostly. I understand your concern.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devaacharyam, since you learned from family, we'll assume that you are Indian. There are many western students who don't have a family tradition of India's astrology. That means that their only recourse for study are contemporary (mainly Western) teachers and various Indian and western texts. Based on your experience, what teachers or texts would you recommend for study...supposing that the new student knows nothing at all about India's astrology?
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Devaacharyam



Joined: 03 Jul 2019
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Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All editions, commentary on Varahamihira's Brihat Jataka, for basics. This the main text. All other texts have their own special techniques as such which would confuse the beginner. But its not a perfect world, so many will drift to the BPHS and get muddled jaimini concepts, and all the mixing of dasha systems which derive from other schools of thought.

Once they have rigorously studied Brihat Jataka they can move on to texts which deal with Nakshatra dasas like Vimshottari from Satya Jataka, then learn to weed out what is needed from the BPHS. It is a broad area, and various teachers today can or not be recommended. This is up to the person, they can choose any teacher, but need to accept if a technique can be used another technique such and such. Modern books help with attributes, and modern thought, but its still modified with western views as you have mentioned in your other posts. I can get into that in another topic, but its huge.

I recommend any teacher now for basics, since atleast 99.7% ideal estimate start with Parashara.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devaacharyam wrote:
Quote:
All editions, commentary on Varahamihira's Brihat Jataka, for basics. This the main text. All other texts have their own special techniques as such which would confuse the beginner. But its not a perfect world, so many will drift to the BPHS and get muddled jaimini concepts, and all the mixing of dasha systems which derive from other schools of thought.

Once they have rigorously studied Brihat Jataka they can move on to texts which deal with Nakshatra dasas like Vimshottari from Satya Jataka,

Ah, yes, Brihat Jataka, the standard Indian study text for a very long time. Way back in the 1970s and 80s this is the text we used along with B.V. Raman's and his grandfather's books. I wonder if Brihat Jataka is used in western classrooms today? (I'm not out circulating anymore, so have to depend on journals, videos, word-of-mouth and web sites.) I have four English editions, and like to compare translations and commentary.

I'm glad you mentioned Satya Jatakam. My hardback copy is so old the pages are brittle. Just reviewing the early pages...my memory isn't great anymore...I am struck by the simplicity of instruction and how different it is from the wordiness of today's texts. And right at the beginning stellar astrology is discussed, reflecting modern Krishnamurti and Khullar principles. One could spend months studying birth charts and testing the earliest statements:

Quote:
The fortunes of the native are to be studied with reference to: (1) the ascendant lord; (2) The lord of the ascendant in the navamsa diagram; (3) the lord of the birth star [nakshatra]; and (4) the lords of the rasis occupied by the above three.

I haven't been able to find anything about the history or dating of this text. Can you offer any information? It's only about USD $5 at Vedic Books. The copy I have (Ranjan Publications) has a preface by S.K. Raman dated to 1979 which must the the publication date. Is he the translator?
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey, i have a copy of brihat jataka.. it is called varaha mihira's brihat jataka by b. suryanarain rao.... where does that fit into the scheme of all the translations out and about? thanks... i have yet to read it...
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James wrote:
Quote:
hey, i have a copy of brihat jataka.. it is called varaha mihira's brihat jataka by b. suryanarain rao.... where does that fit into the scheme of all the translations out and about? thanks... i have yet to read it...

Brihat Jataka is THE primary Indian classical text. But you can't just "read" it. It takes a lot of study and thinking and experimenting with charts. This was the primary study text in India for a long time. B. Suryanarain Rao has added extensive notes and has a definite bias against the west. But I enjoy his commentary and books. There is a certain Indian spiritual flavor that is lacking in newer books. Sort of an ancient wisdom undercurrent, for lack of a better way to say it, a vibration that links to India's past.

Years ago I visited B.V. Raman's offices (Rao's grandson) in Bangalore, and spoke with family members. There was a definite gentle and respectful spiritual aura in the family and surroundings. (I've also attended B.V. Raman events.) Maybe a person has to have a certain psychic sensitivity to feel this...I don't know. I just know that I was turned off by the energy and personalities of the early western Jyotish movement and withdrew. But we have this movement and personalities within the movement to thank for helping to make the sidereal zodiac a concept to be reckoned with in the west, and for that I'm grateful.

About English versions of Brihat Jataka: Three versions were published in the same era: Rao's translation (1918); Swami Vijnananda (1912); N. C. Iyer (1885) (plagiarized by "Usha & Shashi" 1977). P. S. Sastri's edition came out in 2007 with less commentary. There might be other English translations I don't know about. There are no doubt a number of translations in India's regional languages.

For the significance of the B. Suryanarain Rao translation, read the "Preface to the Fifth Edition (1986) by B. V. Raman, the "Forward" by B. Lakshminarain Rao (1957), and the Preface (1919) by the author. The edition I have was published in 1986. I don't know if later publications have been modified by others.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks therese,

your personal comments are especially interesting and rewarding to read.. thanks...

i have the book and have very casually looked at some of the passages.. it is hard to know what i can get from the book.. in a funny way it reminds me of MATHESEOS LIBRI VIII - Ancient Astrology Theory & Practice - Firmicus Maternus - which i have read.. some of it is worth knowing... some of it is for one to rack their brain trying to figure out why they said what they said on it all! maybe most of it falls into this later category.. just opening brihat jataka randomly - "The Sun in Aquarius makes a man mean, separated from children and wealth, and poor."" apply that to jeffery epstein, LOLOL.. oh wait.. dang - he is a sun in aquarius in tropical, but not sidereal!!! continuing on - i can see how they could say some of that, but not sure about all of that...

i think a person has to figure out a lot about astrology for themselves, independent of the books they are supposed to read or not.. i could be wrong but that is how i continue to see it..

cheers james
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James wrote:
Quote:
I think a person has to figure out a lot about astrology for themselves, independent of the books they are supposed to read or not.. i could be wrong but that is how i continue to see it..

Study the books as best you can (or attend classes and lectures), then figure it out on your own. That's what we all have to do. Get the foundation, then build the house yourself that suits you best. But don't make major changes, for example, deciding that the Sun rules Aquarius and the Moon is exalted in Scorpio. Certain principles have to remain the same.

James, I'm wondering about the version of Rao's Brihat Jataka you have. What is the publication date? An Amazon reviewer wrote in 2017:

Quote:
If you can get the first edition & First print then it is worth it. Lot of so called modern day jyotish gurus have put in the latest nonsense trends in Vedic Astrology [that have] no true basis on original classics

This review was for a book listed with two authors, but it looks only like Rao's name was changed around: Bangalore Suryanarain Rao (Author), Suryanarain B. Rao (author)

I don't believe any of India's classic astrological texts are free from Western influence, some good, some bad. By Varaha Mihira's time (6th century) there had already been a great deal of inter-communication between cultures in east and west.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi therese,

varaha mihira's brihat jataka
b. suryanarain rao


on the inside of the book is says

translated by Bangalore Suryanarain Rao

edited by bangalore venkata raman
5th edition 1986...8th reprinted 2018

copyright b.v. raman

the preface by b.v. ramans says

"it is with feeling of considerable pride that i present the fifth edition of my grandfather's english translation of brihat jataka..

there are several translations of this matchless book into english available in the market... but prof. rao's translation has been acclaimed not only as authentic, based mainly on the commentaries of bhattopala but also as embodying in the notes, prof. rao's vast practical experience in the field of astrology..

it is hoped that this translation, out of print for a long time, will supply a long felt want to the vast number of astrological students and savants, for an authoritative presentation of varaha mihira's treatise in simple english..

i must record my appreciation of the helpful attitude displayed by my good friend mr. g.k. ananthram in readily coming forward to publish this book in an attractive manner.. my thanks are due to him."

8-9-1986 b.v. raman"


regarding the quote i gave you - i literally opened the book yesterday and quoted from it.. i don't have the page number! i can't find it with a quick perusal... cheers james
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