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Topocentric Primary Directions

 
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Fadi Mazboudi



Joined: 16 Oct 2017
Posts: 47

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject: Topocentric Primary Directions Reply with quote



This is the horoscope of Philippe Cousteau.
When Saturn reached an exact conjunction with his MC in primary directions, the propeller of his flying boat detached and instantly killed him.

What other directional system better explains this event?!

Read more on topocentric primary directions here: https://juanestadella.com/Predictive_Astrology_Juan-Estadella_3rd_edition.pdf
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 890

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yikes. He had Uranus conjunct Algol (Mars opp too) and transit Uranus opp that at the time. In modern, Uranus would rule the 8th and can describe a strange death. My first thought was, I wonder if he has Algol somewhere. He has MC with Scheat too. Saturn square Moon is usually pretty tough when it is the 8th ruler with the ascendant ruler, especially since Moon is also the luminary of sect.

If you counted degrees to an angle here you would get roughly 40 years, which is close, even without a program. It sucks when you have Saturn lording the 8th relatively close to an angle. His Moon is luminary of sect afflicted by Saturn too though (mutual reception not helping with a malefic), suggesting a shortened life, although Jupiter helps a bit. Saturn lording the luminary also probably means it is alcoccoden, but I don't have software to check that and am just looking at the chart in passing. This makes me nervous for my own chart because I have Saturn lording the 8th square Moon (lording the ascendant) and it is about 52 degrees from an angle and my MC is also with Scheat. I have Sun conjunct Algol opp Uranus too. What fun. My fear of driving is not without foundation. Shocked
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 218
Location: Stockholm

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting direction to saturn in topocentric system.

In fact several systems seems to zero on on this saturn.

That saturn is sidereally challenged by being in aries debilitated.
Saturn is squaring the moon in the whole sign houses 8th house.
Which could suggest death related to water.

Secondary progression

P Asc-90- P SA ( solar arc in RA method).
P MA-135- SA


Vedic Dasha ( planetary period).

The running subperiod during his death was Saturn.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3518
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi fadi,

thanks for providing an example for us keeners to examine more closely...

aside from tanits remark about 40 years bringing the midheaven to saturn, and stefans comments on the secondary progs - sp mdheaven 5 minutes past saturn and the sp mars 135 saturn, i would note also using solar arc data - sa saturn is 4 minutes out of a 135 to moon... saturn as ruler of the 8th making hard aspect to moon as ruler of the ascendant seems to be the best description for this event, but unless one uses 135 aspects, they will overlook this..

i am curious what the midheaven has to do with the topocentric system? isn't the midheaven the same no matter what the system, unless you are going to skip using the midheaven all together??

if you do another one of these, please share the location.. it took me a few minutes, but toulon, france is the location for anyone else interested in looking more closely..

i have a user rate that i use for progs some might be interested in.. i can't remember where i got it, but it is .002737909 with this user rate, a number of connections show up for the june 28 1979 date under examination.... see below...

midheaven conj saturn
mars 135 saturn
sun, moon and ascendant all at 18 degrees which resonates with the ascendant degree..
sun in 8th, moon in 12th and ascendant in 2nd ( which is the 8th from 7th house)..
moon 45 pluto

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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 890

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James - Thanks for posting the two charts overlapping for comparison - I much prefer this approach to drawing arrows. Thumbs up Progressed Sun in the 8th seems rough also to add to the fire.

Normally I find profections a little descriptive for the theme of the year but he would have been around a 4th house Libra year with Venus lording (his 38th year and 18 degree ascendant making around 5-6 months past the birthday the new year). The only thing really emphasizing Venus is the progressed Venus with the ascendant ruler Moon (and progressed Moon opp Venus) opp Pluto, and t square with Saturn. Venus rules Saturn though.
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Fadi Mazboudi



Joined: 16 Oct 2017
Posts: 47

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
i am curious what the midheaven has to do with the topocentric system? isn't the midheaven the same no matter what the system, unless you are going to skip using the midheaven all together??


Saturn reaches a conjunction with the MC in topocentric primary directions, because of the axial rotation of the earth.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi fadi,

i was aware of that, but it was really your comment in the first post you made that i found challenging and wanted to throw it back at you differently.. cheers james

Fadi Mazboudi wrote:

What other directional system better explains this event?!
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 218
Location: Stockholm

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fadi,

I know some people in your branch of astrology that shun solar arc directions as worse than the plague Very Happy .

But seems to be a pretty nice mars direction here. SA MA-180-ASC.

Nicely activated by transit sun on the day of the occasion.

Mars is accident significator after all....


Best wishes
Stefan
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Isaac Starkman



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stefan wrote:
Fadi,

I know some people in your branch of astrology that shun solar arc directions as worse than the plague Very Happy .

But seems to be a pretty nice mars direction here. SA MA-180-ASC.

Nicely activated by transit sun on the day of the occasion.

Mars is accident significator after all....


Best wishes
Stefan


Stefan: you are working with a miscalculating chart probably you are using Astrotheme chart: they calculated it in error to 15.50 instead of 17.50. The Asc should be 18Can38’ and not 5Can. It is always better to check the birth time and chart in AstroDatabank.
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 218
Location: Stockholm

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah you are right Isaac, saw that now.

Wow that new chart have a powerful neptune.
Angular and stationary opposite the MC.
For an oceanic professional and photographer..
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Isaac Starkman



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 125
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After checking with 10 events, I have no doubt that Fadi
rectification is the correct one. But as Alexander Marr pointed out, it is almost impossible to make a prediction by using only the radix and with only one system, even if it is a razor
sharp as primary direction in topocentric system. In that case is impossible to find out the pre natal epoch as the place for the conception is unknown - most probably it wasn’t in Toulon.
So, let’s look at some other techniques:
In his solar return before death, Mercury conjunct Neptune and conjunct IC if we use the place of his birth. Pluto is square the radical Asc orb 27’
In his converse solar return (for 31 Dec 1902) Saturn is sextile radical MC orb 9’ and Neprune is 180 radical Mercury orb 5’.
So, in both these chart we have Mercury- Neptune.
Transit: Neptune 18Sag38
Converse transits: Mars 19Gem
Pluto 18Gem44’
Uranus 18Sag21’
All these transits lined up with heliocentric Mercury in 17Sag30 as well as with Mercury of the solar return.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3518
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi isaac,

are you still involved with polaris rectification software and is fadis post at the top of this thread an example of software you were or are involved in selling?? i'm curious... it seems to me if you have a vested interest in a particular methodology and astrology software you would share that with posters here..

i'm glad you're willing to share insights thru the use of other techniques..it seems some folks want to bow down at the altar of topocentric houses and topocentric primary directions and etc, but also leave room for alternative approaches to be taken!! that's generous!

http://www.jamesalexander.de/rectification.html

hopefully this doesn't engage james a too!!!
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