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argala

 
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:12 pm    Post subject: argala Reply with quote

this concept of argala has come up a few times in reading vp goels books on divisional charts... he says it is from parashara but i keep getting the impression it might be more jaimini! at any rate, my basic understanding is that any planet in the 3nd, 4th and 11th can cause argala.... good argala happens when a benefic is in this position and negative is when a malefic is in this position..

i read a few links - https://sacredastrology.wordpress.com/2009/03/20/meaning-of-argala/

and https://srath.com/argala-planetary-intervention/

the concept is a bit confusing to me... do others have any thoughts on this topic? thanks..

here is a good 23 minute video on the concept
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCJidRN-2Pw
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Argala (Planetary Intervention) is unique to Jaimini. The best discussion I've seen is in Marc Boney's The Essentials of Jaimini (Saraswati Publications, 2017). Marc's Jyotish Guru was K.N. Rao, and Marc clearly discusses the controversies surrounding Argala, partly based on what he learned from Rao. But Argala is definitely not part of Parashara astrology.
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james_m



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Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks therese!

nice to see you.. v p goel says regarding argala - "Argala finds mention in BPHS and Jaimini.. it should be applicable in both systems.. the difference is in the aspects.."

well, that is what he says... this is from the dashamsha book on pg 84 by the author...

is this book you mention, a book you have read? or is it an article somewhere online? looks like a book..
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James, I have Marc Boney's book, The Essentials of Jaimini (271 pages). There is some Jaimini in the Parashara texts, and that is a problem with these recently published texts. So students of Jaimini are advised to study Jaimini texts rather than the Jaimini material mixed into the Parashara texts. Argala is strictly Jaimini. V. P. Goel isn't a purist. He seems to be a modern mixer of concepts and systems. It's always best to study original texts or at least contemporary teachers with a solid classical background.

So, my "said it before" song: Before jumping into a study, do some research to discover the most authentic teachers and texts. This can be tricky because even Hart DeFouw has western concepts in his books. Of course he is also a westerner, though he had an Indian astrological guru.
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Devaacharyam



Joined: 03 Jul 2019
Posts: 7

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Argala is jaimini. And it has a certain set of conditions from a planet with rashi aspect.

So, from the rashi aspect:

1. A planet must aspect the lagna or its 7th house
2. Lord of the moon sign aspecting the lagna or the moon sign
3. Lord of the moon sign aspecting both the lagna or moon sign
4. A planet aspecting the lagna and navamsa lagna
5. A Planet aspecting the lagna and the drekkana lagna
6. A planet aspecting both the navamasa lagna and drekkana lagna.

This planet or planets are eligible to "cast" argala. If the aspecting planet casting the argala is in an odd sign you read direct in zodiac fashion, if its in an even sign indirect/reverse/anti-zodiacal. If Rahu or ketu conjoin with the aspecting planet reverse as well. This same planets aspect can be disrupted by the planets in the argala places from itself, so the aspecting planet creates the argala, the planets in 2nd, 11th, 4th, and minor 5th and 9th support this aspect. The planets in 12th, 3rd, 10th and minor 5th and 9th cause disruption.

This is very conditional and has lots of rules.

For the navamsa aka 9th divisional chart, Krishnamishra navamsa should be used, for Drekkana chart somanattha or parivritti reckoning must be used.

I suggest you read Jaimini Sutramritam by Iranganti Rangacharya, Jyotisha Phalaratnamala, A manual of jaimini Astrology. They give the rules for correct argala from other jaimini commentaries, such as rahu and ketu with the aspecting planet reverses the house reckoning for the argala.

Modern scholars mix argala with BPHS, and make it indiscriminate, or pick and choose methods. And most take conditions for argala to be different or add it to Nakshatra dasas and everything under the sun.

This is an advanced concept, if the person learning does not discriminate between how argala is used between scholars, there is room for error, misjudgement and forced "results".

For example: Say you have a gemini ascendant, and moon is in sagittarius in the 7th house. Since moon is in. a dual/common/Dvishvabhava/mutable sign such as Sagittarius it will aspect the rest of the mutable signs as well. So moon being in Sagittarius will aspect the ascendant which is gemini. This alone gives the moon eligibility to cast argala. Thus since moon is in an odd sign, the 2nd, 4th, and 10th from Sagittarius help the aspect to the natal ascendant. so if venus occupies capricorn from Sagittarius and no other planet occupies scorpio which is 12th from it, good argala is caused, and the aspect from the moon will flourish.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

therese,

thanks for your ongoing comments on the best approach to learning indian astrology.. i don't want to imply disrespect for your approach, but i continue to believe that a person can learn a number of different ways..

i happened to get the important book by vp goel in the mail a couple of days ago... it would have been nice to read this one first- ""comprehensive prediction by divisional charts"", but at the time i was mostly curious to know about navamsha and while reading it, ordered the book on dashamsha..i have found the ideas and concepts he introduced to me, including argala, quite fascinating, even if it don't properly understand them, but here is what i wanted to quote from his book - comprehensive prediction by divisional charts... it is referred to as an original research work.... this implies you are indeed correct is thinking vp goel isn't a purist and as you say - a modern mixer of concepts and systems...

frankly - that is more my style, so i am curious to continue on in this particular vein reading his books! however with regard to argala, he doesn't seem to think it is strictly jaimini, i am not going to belabour the point and will continue to explore these ideas for what i can get from them... thanks!

@Devaacharyam

welcome to skyscript! thanks for commenting on a few threads here and offering your insights into indian astrology.. one of the beautiful things about vp goels books is that he offers many examples to back up his viewpoint... if you are so inclined, i would really appreciate it if you were able to do this too... i would be happy to post the charts if you are interested...

regarding your comments on argala and the conditions you outline - 6 points... if any one condition is met, does that mean the planet qualifies? it sounds like that is what you are saying.. for example in your point 1. you mention the planet must aspect the lagna or it's 7th house... if the argala houses are 2, 4 and 11 and maybe the 5th and 9th, it seems to me the only planet in the 2nd that can aspect the 1/7 is mars... so, unless one has mars in the 2nd, no other planet will work for your 1. same deal for a planet in the 11th - saturn and jupiter can qualify as they aspect 1/7, but no other planet can qualify.. now, perhaps if they qualify under the other points you make, they qualify..

as i understand it, argala is a type of concept that suggests planets in the 2, 4 or 11th house are a resource that helps a person - whether it is assets one can access- 2nd, educational - 4th, or friendships and perhaps older siblings assistance- 11th.. apparently the dasa will trigger these vehicles available to help assist one in their life path..

the reason i like this concept is it makes sense and falls in line with basic concepts in western astrology on the nature of these houses, with the possible exception of education from the 4th... family resources though is something i associate with the 4th house and without that support, life is indeed more challenging..perhaps the fact the 4th is the 8th from the 9th house or the 2nd from the 3rd house might feed into this idea of the 4th being connected to education too...

in reading your comments here again, it is indeed an advanced concept, more then i fully appreciate.. thanks for the example off the moon in sag and if venus is in cap and no planet in scorpio, good argala is caused and the aspect from the moon will flourish... i appreciate the example you've given here.. i was aware of how this concept can be applied around the chart, but the example was helpful.. thanks..
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Devaacharyam



Joined: 03 Jul 2019
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, if any of those conditions are met the planet is eligible to cat argala. Further more, this can give special yogas, or malefics can break the aspecting planet through being in trines, 12th, 6th, 8th from the aspecting planet. Rahu is the most notorious one that can sabotage argala, thus logically lots of folks will not have grand or prosperous argala untouched.

Argala needs sign aspects. You can look them up online or a book, since most will mention them. Suppose you have an Aries lagna, and jupiter is in scorpio, jupiter aspects the lagna, thus he casts argala. Planetary aspects are not meant for this. And Phalaratnamala, Jataka Sangraha, Vriddha Karikas, do not use planetary(graha) aspect. So you do not have to worry about partial aspects, or the special aspects of saturn, jupiter, or mars.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James wrote:
Quote:
Therese, thanks for your ongoing comments on the best approach to learning indian astrology.. i don't want to imply disrespect for your approach, but i continue to believe that a person can learn a number of different ways..

James, depending on my mood, I either smile or feel frustrated whenever we get into this conversation. For me, it's not about a style of learning, so much as respect for astrology and tradition. I'm not sure why I feel so strongly about keeping traditional roots clear and recognizing the additions and corruption that are continuing to change India's astrology.

I'm not Indian and am not even comfortable with India's very colorful social culture and climate. (Though I'm a practicing yogi.) But for me it's very important to keep the integrity of what is today called Jyotish. I'll comment further on this (probably tomorrow) in a reply to Devaacharyam on the texts he recommended:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10548
Benefics and Malefics in Indian Astrology
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James wrote:
Quote:
I happened to get the important book by vp goel in the mail a couple of days ago... it would have been nice to read this one first- ""comprehensive prediction by divisional charts"

I have that book if you ever want to discuss anything in the text. K.N. Rao, who wrote the forward, supports Goel's work because much of it is research based, and that is Rao's main interest.

But here we are discussing various facets of India's astrology in the sidereal section rather than the Indian part of the forum. How did this happen?? Confused
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devaacharyam,

thanks but i am thrown off my your example jupiter in scorpio aspecting the ascendant... now this might be due differences in jaimini and parashara concepts on aspects...


therese,


since you have it, have your read vp goels book ""comprehensive prediction by divisional charts"? if so, what did you think of the book and his ideas?

we can discuss all of this in the indian astrology forum too.. i never really thought about it and mostly thought it was all relevant on the sidereal forum where i have posted, but would you be happier if i posted on the indian and asian astrology forum instead?

as for the integrity of jyotish, do you feel the same about western astrology too? either way, do you leave any windows open to new ideas, and if so, how do you do it in connection to ""THE TRADITION""?

also, aren't most of these older texts from india written in sansksrit? do you read sansksrit or are you getting it 2nd hand thru someone's interpretation? i am truly curious! thanks..
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James wrote:
Quote:
Since you have it, have your read vp goels book ""comprehensive prediction by divisional charts"? if so, what did you think of the book and his ideas?

I've had the book a while, maybe two or three years. But I haven't read it yet. I have a stack of K.N. Rao related books that I was going to go through sometime...haven't had time yet. But I grasp concepts quickly if there is a section in Goel's book you are wondering about.

Quote:
We can discuss all of this in the indian astrology forum too.. i never really thought about it and mostly thought it was all relevant on the sidereal forum where i have posted, but would you be happier if i posted on the indian and asian astrology forum instead?

Oh, it doesn't matter to me unless some Jyotish astrologers only check the Indian forum. It seems that the sidereal part of the forum has more readers.

Quote:
As for the integrity of jyotish, do you feel the same about western astrology too? either way, do you leave any windows open to new ideas, and if so, how do you do it in connection to ""THE TRADITION""?

Now that we have so many fine translations from the earliest Hellenistic period through the Arabic period all the way to William Lilly, yes, I think it's extremely important for astrologers of the western tradition to have this background. I would say without this historical foundation, a so-called astrologer should not even be practicing.

Accumulating all these new translations is expensive, and studying them is time consuming and can be difficult. But fortunately there are some good summary texts being written. I expect organizations such as NCGR (which has the highest certification standards), have a required reading list and require a good historical foundation for new students.

Modern tropical astrology (which now seems very simplistic) only goes back to Alan Leo, but mostly Charles Carter. Recently I've purchased some low cost Leo books, and they can really seem simplistic when compared to the recently translated classical texts. I interrupted my work with India's astrology to follow the classical western translations. There's a lot of inter-relatedness between early western concepts and classical Indian astrology. That would be a very interesting study.

Quote:
Also, aren't most of these older texts from India written in Sansksrit? do you read Sansksrit or are you getting it 2nd hand thru someone's interpretation? I am truly curious! thanks..

Many of India's original texts were in Sanskrit, but also other regional languages (Devaacharyam would be the expert on this). But all the primary classics have been translated into English, often several times by different translators. Over the years I've acquired these English texts, and often compare translations. The main difference is in the commentary by translators. That's why it's interesting to compare translations.

But remember, I've had lots of time to do this, from sometime in the 1970s. That's why I have more of an overview of India's astrology than younger western students who probably began their study with modern texts written by western astrologers who had a tropical background. And also the very questionable BPHS which western astrologers have flocked to like moths to a flame.

But this text has only been around since the 1980s, though various partial manuscripts existed in India in different locales. But dating parts of this text is extremely ambiguous. Other Indian classics are more reliable, but can't be studied in just a few weeks.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should add that modern innovators such as S.P. Khullar have rejected much of India's classical tradition as being un-workable. But I think this may be because they never took the time and concentration to really work with classical concepts. And to be honest, I believe a very developed spiritual intuition is necessary to fully apply India's classical astrology in a consulting situation. So more cut-and-dried "scientific" mathematical systems are seeing the light of day. That's why I'm investigating the Krishnamurti and Khullar systems. (I've been using certain Krishnamurti concepts regarding Dasa timing for about 20 years.)
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james_m



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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks therese for your thoughtful reply to all my questions... if i have any questions on the book we both have by vp goel, i will run them by you.. i am presently reading another book before i get to the vp goel book we both have.. you sure have been at indian astrology a long time!

it is interesting what you say in your last post..
Therese Hamilton wrote:
I should add that modern innovators such as S.P. Khullar have rejected much of India's classical tradition as being un-workable.


you might be right in how you categorize that.. i don't know...
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