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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Action,sect and overcoming
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TT



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
Posts: 117

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:59 pm    Post subject: Action,sect and overcoming Reply with quote

Hi
I find it interesting that the planets related to career belong to the night sect.Jupiter and Saturn being social and abstract belong to the day and are more philosophical in nature.
And no career is associated to them.
Regarding overcoming if one has planets in say ,Leo virgo and libra,do the leo planets have a stronger influence in the native's personality than the others even if one of them is angular?
Thanks
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 947

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I find it interesting that the planets related to career belong to the night sect.


According to whom?
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TT



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
Posts: 117

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:
Quote:

I find it interesting that the planets related to career belong to the night sect.


According to whom?


According to Hellenic astrologers Mars,Venus and Mercury are the planets to look at for action,career
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 947

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In order to have a better discussion, you might want to reference the text and author to which you are referring to and the methods of approach. Your statement sounds like a universal truth rather than a particular method. It is important to clarify which methods you are referring to because "traditional" encompasses many astrologers and techniques over a long history and this forum is not devoted to only Hellenistic astrology, hence my question.


Quote:

Regarding overcoming if one has planets in say ,Leo virgo and libra,do the leo planets have a stronger influence in the native's personality than the others even if one of them is angular?


Again, you are referring to something specific and not filling us in on the source of your claims. "Overcoming?" Is this in reference to the book by James Holdon you mentioned in another thread? Overcoming what? Difficult career rulers if Mercury, Venus and Mars as possible rulers are all debilitated?

One question might be do other astrologers find these Hellenistic methods reliable or do they look to the 10th and 2nd ruler/planets there (and PoF, etc.) as well, even if another planet? I know Tom has said repeatedly that he does not think astrology can reliably predict the career, for example.

Also, under my school of thought, such as Bonatti and Lilly, Mercury has neither day nor night sect, although occidental versus oriental placement can dictate sect under some methods.

Chris Brennan says the following:

Quote:

Firmicus is silent on the sect of Mercury in his rather brief introductory statements on the topic (Firmicus, Mathesis, Book 2, Ch. 7), although for some reason Bram’s translation mistakenly says that Mercury is associated with the nocturnal sect, even though Mercury is never mentioned in the critical edition of this chapter. Clearly Bram has introduced a mistaken interpolation here.
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TT



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
Posts: 117

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Tanit3333"]In order to have a better discussion, you might want to reference the text and author to which you are referring to and the methods of approach. Your statement sounds like a universal truth rather than a particular method. It is important to clarify which methods you are referring to because "traditional" encompasses many astrologers and techniques over a long history and this forum is not devoted to only Hellenistic astrology, hence my question.


Quote:

Regarding overcoming if one has planets in say ,Leo virgo and libra,do the leo planets have a stronger influence in the native's personality than the others even if one of them is angular?


Again, you are referring to something specific and not filling us in on the source of your claims. "Overcoming?" Is this in reference to the book by James Holdon you mentioned in another thread? Overcoming what? Difficult career rulers if Mercury, Venus and Mars as possible rulers are all debilitated?

One question might be do other astrologers find these Hellenistic methods reliable or do they look to the 10th and 2nd ruler/planets there (and PoF, etc.) as well, even if another planet? I know Tom has said repeatedly that he does not think astrology can reliably predict the career, for example.

Also, under my school of thought, such as Bonatti and Lilly, Mercury has neither day nor night sect, although occidental versus oriental placement can dictate sect under some methods.

Chris Brennan says the following:

[quote]
Firmicus is silent on the sect of Mercury in his rather brief introductory statements on the topic (Firmicus, Mathesis, Book 2, Ch. 7), although for some reason Bram’s translation mistakenly says that Mercury is associated with the nocturnal sect, even though Mercury is never mentioned in the critical edition of this chapter. Clearly Bram has introduced a mistaken interpolation


Last edited by TT on Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3576
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't have the references, but moon applying to an inner planet has some bearing on vocation as i recall from reading the hellenistic astro literature.. for example - moon applying to venus - some type of artistic vocation is more possible... the other idea in reference to vocation that i got from some astrological place, although it might be more modern based is the planet that rises before the sun is considered a potential career/vocation indicator.. with trump and gw bush - uranus is the planet that rises before the sun in both charts... with both bill clinton and vladimir putin, pluto rises before the sun.... when i look at these charts and those of others, these are considerations i make in trying to understand a leading influence on vocation.
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TT



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
Posts: 117

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
i don't have the references, but moon applying to an inner planet has some bearing on vocation as i recall from reading the hellenistic astro literature.. for example - moon applying to venus - some type of artistic vocation is more possible... the other idea in reference to vocation that i got from some astrological place, although it might be more modern based is the planet that rises before the sun is considered a potential career/vocation indicator.. with trump and gw bush - uranus is the planet that rises before the sun in both charts... with both bill clinton and vladimir putin, pluto rises before the sun.... when i look at these charts and those of others, these are considerations i make in trying to understand a leading influence on vocation.


Exactly but normally the oriental planet must be mercury venus or mars
Yes the first planet moon aspects can indicate career
Im looking for links
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TT



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
Posts: 117

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://internationsocietyofclassicalastrologers.wordpress.com/2015/09/05/the-natives-profession-according-to-medieval-authors/?fbclid=IwAR3-fRqjFViv5ETIEqlTlFuIsGqs3mnxx0U9tIl_MGJjbx0AtNUcAlPhJxc


http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/twelfth-parts-and-the-astrology-of-profession/
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 235

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TT wrote:

Ptolemy and others.I have no time for beginner questions

Tanit took a lot of time and consideration to answer your post and frankly was not unreasonable trying to advance your queries due to the eclectic nature of traditional astrology and the scope of this forum.

By stating your own references it can often jog other members recalling a reading of the same or other texts.

James, bless his heart looked the other way.

Hate to play hall monitor here but this forum thrives only due to the respect each member gives to another. Patience is a virtue. Your tone at least in written context was inconsiderate. Be mindful of how you come across.

Be well.
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TT



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
Posts: 117

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.sevenstarsastrology.com/?s=profession

Plenty of examples.Jimmy Hendrix's chart shows that combustion does nothing to you
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TT



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
Posts: 117

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ wrote:
TT wrote:

Ptolemy and others.I have no time for beginner questions

Tanit took a lot of time and consideration to answer your post and frankly was not unreasonable trying to advance your queries due to the eclectic nature of traditional astrology and the scope of this forum.

By stating your own references it can often jog other members recalling a reading of the same or other texts.

James, bless his heart looked the other way.

Hate to play hall monitor here but this forum thrives only due to the respect each member gives to another. Patience is a virtue. Your tone at least in written context was inconsiderate. Be mindful of how you come across.

Be well.


She sounded too nitpicky and virgoan to me
I expected people in the traditional forum to be familiar at least with Ptolemy
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 947

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TT - as usual in our conversations, you misunderstand my post. My attempt to get you to elaborate was not due to my own ignorance but in order to get a more fruitful discussion from you and for others searching Skyscript to understand your meaning. I am not a strong Virgo, but thanks for the compliment, I guess. I do have a dignified Mercury, if that is what you mean.
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TT



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
Posts: 117

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:
In order to have a better discussion, you might want to reference the text and author to which you are referring to and the methods of approach. Your statement sounds like a universal truth rather than a particular method. It is important to clarify which methods you are referring to because "traditional" encompasses many astrologers and techniques over a long history and this forum is not devoted to only Hellenistic astrology, hence my question.


Quote:

Regarding overcoming if one has planets in say ,Leo virgo and libra,do the leo planets have a stronger influence in the native's personality than the others even if one of them is angular?


Again, you are referring to something specific and not filling us in on the source of your claims. "Overcoming?" Is this in reference to the book by James Holdon you mentioned in another thread? Overcoming what? Difficult career rulers if Mercury, Venus and Mars as possible rulers are all debilitated?

One question might be do other astrologers find these Hellenistic methods reliable or do they look to the 10th and 2nd ruler/planets there (and PoF, etc.) as well, even if another planet? I know Tom has said repeatedly that he does not think astrology can reliably predict the career, for example.

Also, under my school of thought, such as Bonatti and Lilly, Mercury has neither day nor night sect, although occidental versus oriental placement can dictate sect under some methods.

Chris Brennan says the following:

Quote:

Firmicus is silent on the sect of Mercury in his rather brief introductory statements on the topic (Firmicus, Mathesis, Book 2, Ch. 7), although for some reason Bram’s translation mistakenly says that Mercury is associated with the nocturnal sect, even though Mercury is never mentioned in the critical edition of this chapter. Clearly Bram has introduced a mistaken interpolation here.


Mercury joys in the Asc because it belongs to both sects or is flexíble enough for both but it prefers the night as its exalted in a night sign.
Peolle talk more at night too.If you chit chat while at work youre frowned upon
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TT



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
Posts: 117

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit3333 wrote:
TT - as usual in our conversations, you misunderstand my post. My attempt to get you to elaborate was not due to my own ignorance but in order to get a more fruitful discussion from you and for others searching Skyscript to understand your meaning. I am not a strong Virgo, but thanks for the compliment, I guess. I do have a dignified Mercury, if that is what you mean.


Thats the point.You were kind of pretending you are ignorant when you obviously arent
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 947

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Mercury joys in the Asc because it belongs to both sects or is flexíble enough for both but it prefers the night as its exalted in a night sign. Peolle talk more at night too.If you chit chat while at work youre frowned upon


I completely disagree that Mercury prefers the night, which would also likely imply it prefers femininity, which it does not. It is a neutral planet all around in these regards. This is stated in just about any classical text so your interpretation is unlikely to have much support.

Regarding Mercury preferring Virgo, Deb Houlding says the following:

Quote:
While Mercury, although common to both genders, prefers Virgo to Gemini because it most closely maintains its natural relationship with the Sun.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/rulership.html

Maybe others who do more research on this information can provide the sources where she makes this claim but Deb knows her stuff.

Also, according to Chris Brennan's research (see The Planetary Joys and the Origins of the Significations of the Houses and Triplicities by Chris Brennan), Mercury Joys in the 1st because it can be above or below the horizon, representing its adaptibility in sect, which is emphasized throughout classical astrology and is another reason I would most certainly not assign it to a sect.
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