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Planetary War or Graha Yuddha
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 235

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese: I hope you don't mind. Just for fun, I took a screenshot from Stellarium (planetarium software) of the Saturn/Jupiter Graha Yuddha (conjunction) in Aries in your chart. I thought a visual would be enlightening to help look at the planetary war as early astronomer/astrologers would see it.
Just looking at it without any detailed rules or conditions instinctively I would say that Jupiter is the winner as it is both brighter and higher than Saturn.



Edited to scale the graphic down.


Last edited by AJ on Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1560
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ, lovely screen shot!! Then how would you interpret Jupiter and Saturn if you were explaining the astrological results to someone? Would you separate personality from the quality of life in general? (I'm not sure how you interpret natal charts, whether strictly on the basis of events/life quality or include personality as well.)

It's interesting that both Jupiter and Saturn are in the same degree of the zodiac as beta Triangulum, and I've always considered trinal planetary relationships and houses in trine to be very important. Then mu Cetus is also in that degree...hmmm... Yes, Jupiter's aspect is the trine!

I don't suppose that you can shrink the sky graphic?
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 235

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
Then how would you interpret Jupiter and Saturn if you were explaining the astrological results to someone? Would you separate personality from the quality of life in general? (I'm not sure how you interpret natal charts, whether strictly on the basis of events/life quality or include personality as well.)

I'll have to come back to this one due to time and some due deliberation, but contrary to popular opinion Jataka does address personality, not just prediction. This often comes through in the delineation of the chart. It's just not the main focus or as detailed as in western psychological astrology.
Quote:
I don't suppose that you can shrink the sky graphic?

Hi Therese: Check back on that post, I scaled the graphic down 50%.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1560
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ wrote:
Quote:
Hi Therese: Check back on that post, I scaled the graphic down 50%.

Thank you!! Much better. For the record, my life has been generally fortunate (Jupiter), but my psychology is nothing like Jupiter--much more Saturnian.

Years ago I used to have Stellarium on my computer, but it acted like a beta test program. I'm sure it's much better today. I have two other sky programs now.
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 235

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
AJ wrote:
Quote:
Hi Therese: Check back on that post, I scaled the graphic down 50%.

Thank you!! Much better. For the record, my life has been generally fortunate (Jupiter), but my psychology is nothing like Jupiter--much more Saturnian.

Years ago I used to have Stellarium on my computer, but it acted like a beta test program. I'm sure it's much better today. I have two other sky programs now.

Well right out of the delineation box one would expect that for a exact Jupiter/Saturn conjunction. Saturn's focus, discipline and order on Jupiter's effusive nature. Jupiter's wisdom with Saturn here would make you logical with a legal type of mind. Structure and control for this configuration come to mind especially since Saturn rules the third. Stubborn and a bit pessimistic too since both Jupiter and Saturn are disposited by weak Mercury in the 12th.
Debilitated Saturn benefits a lot from Jupiter but would be better if Jupiter were stronger. Being conjunct in Venus's Star it shows you love obtaining and giving knowledge.
Both Jupiter and Saturn are well placed but weakened giving some health concerns, lack of vitality, delay in attaining goals. Some problems communicating with others.
Asc in Mula causes you to follow the path of wisdom.

Stellarium is a nice program but it does have a few glitches I will admit. It's freeware. If I leave it running in the background it always freezes. Might be a RAM hog. I haven't watched to see if it gobbles up a lot of resources.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 1560
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ wrote:
Quote:
Stellarium is a nice program but it does have a few glitches I will admit. It's freeware. If I leave it running in the background it always freezes. Might be a RAM hog. I haven't watched to see if it gobbles up a lot of resources.

For astrologers who like to use a sky program, Skymap by Chris Marriott (not the on-line program of the same name) is a wonderful technical program, but doesn't have the beautiful visual screens that Stellarium has. But screens are attractive with colored stars and changing sky colors for different times of the day or night. With Skymap I can draw the ecliptic grid, RA/dec grid or Alt/Az grid....great for comparing where planets are in relation to these coordinate systems. I have an old version: Skymap Lite, 2003. Works great! These older programs tend to be very fast as they're not loaded with later bulky updates.

EDIT: 20 July 2019
Quote:
.... since both Jupiter and Saturn are disposited by weak Mercury in the 12th.

???...Dispositor is Mars in Virgo, 10th. Or nakshatra (star) lord is Venus in Virgo, 10th.

It’s always difficult to choose the correct terms out of the many for planets that describe a person. I’m not pessimistic as such (for God runs the universe). More melancholy, sort of like if you go outdoors on a rainy day, there are gray clouds in the sky. They’re not pessimistic. They’re just there, describing the day. Often it’s a feeling of loneliness, being out of place, a stranger in a strange land (earth life). Generally having a scientific perspective (Saturn).

I’m not generally stubborn; my family nickname is “the embodiment of change.” A strongly Jupitarian/Martian daughter considers this a great weakness. I’ve found the Gauquelin planetary keywords to be accurate. Two Gauquelin keywords for Jupiter are “authoritative” and “obstinate.” That is my daughter, completely unmovable. The Gauquelins give "stubborn" as a keyword for both Mars and Jupiter. I really think the Gauquelins are correct. Psychology is linked to individual planets. Find the planets that belong to each person, and you have their psychology.

Actually some aspects of Swati are fairly descriptive for my chart: “...flexible, adaptable...”, very interested in learning and education, artistic... (I was an artist in my younger days and taught art in the schools.) I’m not very disciplined, great at starting new paths, poor at finishing them. Vayu, God the the Wind. I can identify with that. Also Saraswati, though my personal deity is Kali (Saturn). (Swati notes from Kenneth Johnson, p. 96)

But I can sound decisive and firm (Mars Gauquelin keywords) in relation to astrology, the expression of Mercury in Scorpio in exchange with Mars in Virgo. I guess you could say that astrology is the child I care most about.

Related to AJ's post, I've continued the general topic if interpretation here:
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=112013#112013
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 227
Location: Stockholm

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edith Hathaway * "Graha Yuddha"
Quote:
Chakrapani said he used a different set of rules for Graha Yuddha given to him
years ago by his father, but further formulated over his own long career by use in his day-to-day
consulting practice. Since they proved to be accurate in his experience, I began research on this
topic, joined initially by Chakrapani.


While there seems to be joint conclusion here that Edith Hathaway as a westerner is doing something of low quality in her paper about Graha Yuddha, I think it is fair to remind that the origin of that comes from Chakrapani Ullal's parampara (lineage) and experience. So the critique could be extended to his contribution as well. Not knowing however exactly how much is from him though.

Otherwise I understand and can certainly relate to some of the critique.
Which seems logical. I have read the article again, which i have not done since some years ago.

But I also respect people's own experience in their practice doing masses of charts daily. Kn Rao who is certainly as well as Chakrapani a mostly respected astrologer in the community of Jyotishi's, is often seen leaving some of the classical parameters in favour of own personal experience.
Like Chakrapani he seems to be an astrologer who is gifted with very intuitive skills in his work.


Quote:
Asc in Mula causes you to follow the path of wisdom.


Mula means 'root'. It often give the shakti to go to the bottom with things. Thorough approach. Not afraid of tearing down structures or conditions either to get to the essence. Some association with the goddess Kali, as Niritti is the ruling deity.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stefan wrote:
Quote:
Mula means 'root'. It often give the shakti to go to the bottom with things. Thorough approach. Not afraid of tearing down structures or conditions either to get to the essence. Some association with the goddess Kali, as Niritti is the ruling deity.

I'm always wanting to get to the fundamentals (roots) of the principles of interpretation. Sometimes we have to strip away the overlays to find the roots of the tree. It seems to me that we should be able to back up our statements with the foundation principles they are based on.

Yes, Kali is a daily presence in my life. (This can be felt as a threat by others.) But I think there has to be a particular emphasis on Ketu in the birth chart for Mula's qualities to fully manifest. But then since the 1990s there have been massive interpretation additions to the mansions by modern astrologers, mostly courtesy of Bepin Behari and David Frawley. So now I question everything about the 27 mansions, including how they are used as ascendant stars (presumed characteristics) and for placement of the Sun. But I do think that the equal 27-fold division of the ecliptic is a valid lunar zodiac. We just have to learn more about valid ways to use it.

http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/AANakshatra%20History.htm
"Astrological Use of the 27 Lunar Mansions: Modern Innovation: A Review"
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 227
Location: Stockholm

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, Kali is a daily presence in my life. (This can be felt as a threat by others.)


Yes that is noticable. Maybe as a practicing yogi as you said you are.
Making an effort to soften and letting go, would perhaps making the sidereal part of forum a more post conducive place to be...(not meant in an offensive way)...we all have our samskaras...I know. Very Happy


Quote:
ut then since the 1990s there have been massive interpretation additions to the mansions by modern astrologers, mostly courtesy of Bepin Behari and David Frawley. So now I question everything about the 27 mansions, including how they are used as ascendant stars (presumed characteristics) and for placement of the Sun. But I do think that the equal 27-fold division of the ecliptic is a valid lunar zodiac. We just have to learn more about valid ways to use it.



Using the symbols the shakti: the basis above: and basis below, the Deity: gives useful information imo.

Taking Trumps placement in magha and Jyeshta for example is revealing for his karmic destiny in this lifetime I think.
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