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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Finding the Lord of Geniture, understanding dignity
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Stefan



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 222
Location: Stockholm

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ,

No I am not familiar with the concept "Lord of geniture" as I am not so apt with traditional western astrology.

when it comes to judging strength I use the jyotish dignities, but being aware of other stuff like western chart patterns like singletons for example. ( for example the singleton status of Jupiter in Bransons chart is potent, Angularity of planets near angles seems important for strength, stationary planets also.

(I agree with your assesment of strengths in the OP chart. Venus and Saturn seems to be the two most potent planets ( have not looked into divisional charts like navamsha though, so with some reservation.

Venus and mercury forming a Raja Yoga for rise in position, so their periods should be watched for that, although the planetary war between these two planets might complicate it a bit.

Rahu is important player in chart as well due to so many planets placed in Rahu ruled nakshatra's/lunar mansions I think.)
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3601
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Finding the Lord of Geniture, understanding dignity Reply with quote

AJ wrote:

Saturn is a close second because it is extremely well placed and strong in its Mulatrikona sign in the auspicious ninth house. Saturn is also in its own sign in navamsa with Mercury and Venus. Saturn is in the midheaven.


aj - another comment that i wanted to take up is connected to your use of the navamsha... if a planet is in the same sign in both the natal and navamsha chart, it is considered a positive as exampled in tsukii;s chart/s... i haven't read anyone talking about if the planet is in a sign that is not positive - like saturn in leo in both charts... do you have any thoughts on this? i haven't come across it in my reading, although i will be getting a few more books on the navamsha in the next little while...

thanks!
james
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 235

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
i notice you commenting on the placement of venus-mercury-saturn with regard to the moons houses... do you also consider placements with regard to sun houses, or is it really primarily about the ascendant and moon houses where the most weight is given?

I always use the Udaya, or regular ascendant chart and secondarily the Chandra or Moon chart. Once in awhile, I will use the Surya, or sun ascendant chart. You might be interested to know that there is a method called Sudarshana Chakra which combines all three charts together. It facilitates reading all three ascendants together and also has its own dasha. I have played with the technique but there are some Indian astrologers that use it exclusively. The dasha system is key though as it tells which houses are active at any one time.
Here is an approximate of tsukii's chart in Sudarshana format


james_m wrote:
also - how much of a factor is planetary phase? you say planets that are stationary are very powerful.. saturn is approx 5 days, venus 10 days and mercury 14 days from their change in direction... you use at 1-2 day window... my own experience leads me to believe a larger window is valid - 7 days anyway - especially for the outer planets.. but regardless of that, how much of a factor do you give this here?

Any period surrounding the exact time of station for a planet is purely arbitrary. I deem an inner planet to be stationary if within about one day of its exact station for a total stationary window of 3 days, and usually two days for the outer naked eye planets for a total stationary period of about five days. This is the “power window” for stationing. I prefer a pretty tight window for stationing for two reasons. This is where the effect observable. Secondly, the actual change of station is the only event of any real significance in the retrogradation cycle.
If you were to observe Saturn against the night sky it would, of course, look to be in the same spot relative to the fixed stars for several weeks before and after the station and I guess that is an argument to extend the window but I prefer to use the speed of the planet as my yardstick. Again this is purely arbitrary on my part but works well in practice. The further from the actual time of station I find the power effect of station pretty much null in the charts I have studied.

Within a week or two of station but outside of the stationing window I consider the planet as in a type of accidental dignity to put it in western terms.
james_m wrote:
regarding the orbs you use - i know, i know - orbs are a contentious issue - you are working with a 2 degree orb for any planet being handicapped with the nodes... i am guessing this is what you have arrived at by experience, but just checking!

Yes orbs, one of the more zesty of the astrological arguments... Yes, orbs are arbitrary too. This is as far as I know not found in any ancient text. That doesn't mean it isn't valid. There are many contradictions and limitations in the classical texts. This is why gurus in Jyotish are so important and a willingness of the student to fire everything in the crucible of their own experience.

I use a two degree orb for this because I find that even a strong planet becomes afflicted when caught up in the Nodal axis unless it is offset by a tight benefic aspect. Weak planets 5 degrees with the influence getting less as the orb opens to the five degree limit. Aspects and orbs is a pretty complicated subject with many variables in Indian astrology as you know and this is just one. I don't want to give the wrong impression.
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 235

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:41 am    Post subject: Re: Finding the Lord of Geniture, understanding dignity Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
AJ wrote:

Saturn is a close second because it is extremely well placed and strong in its Mulatrikona sign in the auspicious ninth house. Saturn is also in its own sign in navamsa with Mercury and Venus. Saturn is in the midheaven.


aj - another comment that i wanted to take up is connected to your use of the navamsha... if a planet is in the same sign in both the natal and navamsha chart, it is considered a positive as exampled in tsukii;s chart/s... i haven't read anyone talking about if the planet is in a sign that is not positive - like saturn in leo in both charts... do you have any thoughts on this? i haven't come across it in my reading, although i will be getting a few more books on the navamsha in the next little while...

thanks!
james

The same logic applies to negative positions when we are looking at the "themes" of the planets natally and in the various charts.
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 235

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stefan: Thanks for your insights, couldn't agree more.
Tsukii's chart is just an approximate for example and discussion. Certainly, it is not being used for "live" delineation. It would be nice to have the full birth data in case tsukii rejoins the conversation.
Be Well.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3601
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks aj!

i have never heard of this Sudarshana Chakra - use of the 3 charts... is that being generated by the joyti star software? i really need to understand the basis for the dasas more fully as they are very central to everything in indian astrology...

here is an interesting page on Sudarshana Chakra, but it is something different, though i am sure related... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudarshana_Chakra

thanks for articulating how much is arbitrary in all of this... one is really left to their own experience in some much, which is probably a good thing... you mentioned a teacher.. life is the best teacher, but it is nice to have others encouraging or offering insights along the way too - such as you are doing here at skyscript! cheers james

link on sudarshana chakra from a particular persons understanding -
https://medium.com/thoughts-on-jyotish/secrets-of-sudarshana-chakra-dasa-part-1-268ff8ef23e2
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 235

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
i have never heard of this Sudarshana Chakra - use of the 3 charts... is that being generated by the joyti star software? i really need to understand the basis for the dasas more fully as they are very central to everything in indian astrology...

BTW.. transits are used too with this technique.
SC Dasha is very simple to calculate and in the days of hand calculating it was much easier than vimshottari and was often used with the Udaya chart alone if you needed quick calcs. It's a 12-year cycle dasha. Each dasha has 12 main periods and each subperiod will have 2.5 days. See how simple?
Solar years only! 1st year of dasha represents the 1st house and 12th year is dasha of 12th house and then repeats... so on and so on.

Quote:
here is an interesting page on Sudarshana Chakra, but it is something different, though i am sure related... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudarshana_Chakra

Yes, this is the weapon Vishnu used to decapitate Rahu after tasting the Amrita, the nectar of immortality.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3601
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks aj,

i was just reading up on it and noticed your comments and the ones on this pdf seem to correlate closely with the concept of profections in trad astrology... i will have to look at it more closely.. thanks for the additional comments on this.. i was about to start a separate thread on this topic, but thought i would respond to you here first...

https://www.sranjanmishra.com/Document/SudarshanChakraDasaANewApproachColor.pdf
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
Posts: 235

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
thanks aj,

i was just reading up on it and noticed your comments and the ones on this pdf seem to correlate closely with the concept of profections in trad astrology... i will have to look at it more closely.. thanks for the additional comments on this.. i was about to start a separate thread on this topic, but thought i would respond to you here first...

https://www.sranjanmishra.com/Document/SudarshanChakraDasaANewApproachColor.pdf

There are so many amazing techniques both western and eastern. Since we are on the subject I blew the dust off my Sudarshan chakra chart and noticed that it reflects some recent events almost as well as my other techniques, reflecting the P3 chart quite well in fact. Not quite as precise in timing but that is due to the broader SC dasha window. So yeah. Start a new topic.
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tsukii



Joined: 11 Mar 2019
Posts: 8
Location: The Moon

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everyone, I'm still here, but I've been working all week and finally have some relaxing time on my weekend. I really appreciate what's been going on here, given my chart and my (often) confusing and strange questions.

When I was asking for lord of geniture, I was mostly curious about how older techniques in Western astrology might view my natal chart, but it seems my preference for the Vedic side wins out (or shows itself) every time lol

I would be happy to provide any extra birth information, should anyone require it.

Planetary strength is one of my favorite topics in astrology, especially in Vedic because I believe it's one of the most defining static traits of a native (not including different periods).

Speaking for myself (as can be seen from my chart), I feel very strongly for Venus and Mercury the most. Saturn, I also feel very strongly, even without taking into consideration the finer points of planetary strength.

I don't think its considered significant in planetary strength (or perhaps it is), but my Atmakaraka (the chara-) is the Sun.

Of all the planets that I've noticed that have played the strongest and most consistent roles throughout my life were Venus (especially Venus rx, which is a particularly long story) and Mercury.

I've always been a bit on the fence about whether or not I considered the nodes as "dominant" planets, even though I recognize their strengths (Rahu especially, in my case), unless someone thinks differently and can persuade me otherwise.

Also, I've been researching Shadbala and how to calculate it and I'm....at a loss for words on how complicated it is. I would love to know which planets may be in this category, but I have no way of calculating that at this time. Would anyone happen to suggest any place that may offer Shadbalas?
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