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Solar Returns and Profections
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stefan wrote:
Quote:
I am a bit confused about the way of treat this chart with no context at all as to life pattern and how chart [has] responded to former astrological techniques etc.

Stefan, thank you so much for your reply as I know you have very limited time to respond. I agree completely that without a life context, it is not possible to predict an event unless one has psychic perception. We can only guess among many possibilities.

Quote:
The immediate subperiod of Jupiter which runs the present time is Jupiter however. A very strong Jupiter exalted in the whole sign 9th house. Vargottama, also exalted in the navamsha. Looking further into the vargas we find Jupiter in exaltation or in own sign in several important subcharts. Jupiter is clearly the most powerful planet in the chart imo. The results should be positive in some way.

This is correct on all points as we will see when I post this event in Catherine's life.

Quote:
I find it hard to pick a specific event from all this so I will not do it.
There could be many developing themes for her in this year.

Yes, this is the way I would see this period in Catherine's life if she were not a friend. I am familiar with her life, but if I had studied her life years ago I don't think I would have foreseen this event. Catherine works at a low paying job, and she lives in an RV (recreation vehicle).
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:07 pm; edited 3 times in total
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
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Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

map wrote:
@AJ

vimshottari dasa system

Thanks for clarifying.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, everyone for your replies. I honestly thought that the astrological symbolism might be so transparent due to the dates (summer time) that everyone would see the pattern, and I could say that astrological symbolism is obvious after all. For Catherine’s chart there are two important points to remember:

(1) Catherine’s solar return year has six months to go, and it may be that we will see events manifesting that some have mentioned. I keep in touch with Catherine and if there are any other important events for this SR year, I’ll post them on this thread.

(2) There is no chance of the birth time being wrong since Catherine’s father also noted the clock time in the delivery room in the hospital when she was born. (In the 1960s everyone was into astrology!)



Jupiter is an important key to this nine week period in Catherine’s life. I learned (or belatedly remembered) from Alex’s chart how important the natal navamsa chart is for life patterns. Catherine has been running Mars dasa/Jupiter bhukti. (She did have some Mars type events when Mars dasa began. Also natal ascendant lord Mars in 12th indicates that as an American, Catherine was born in a foreign country.)

But we are in Jupiter bhukiti now. In the natal chart Jupiter isn’t close to a house midpoint, but it is vargottama exalted in Cancer, in its own star, conjunct fortuna, and is in the 9th house in both natal and navamsa chart. This is a solid gold Jupiter. We might predict that nothing bad can happen during Jupiter’s bhukti.

The event for this time period is that Catherine’s older sister (SR Sun in 11th) wished a companion on a nine week tour of European countries including three weeks on the Greek islands which to Catherine is heaven on earth. They planned this trip together for months (SR Asc in 7th, partnership) via WhatsApp as her sister lives in another country (12th). Although the trip did cost a small amount, Catherine didn’t have nearly the financial resources for such a trip, so was treated to the excursion by her sister. This was the “dream of a lifetime” for Catherine, particularly the days spent on several Greek islands in the final weeks of the trip.

This was an impossible dream come true for Catherine whose Pisces Sun loves adventure. A particular joy for Catherine were the many food tours she scheduled as she is an excellent cook, and food is a passion for her. I think when she reviews this trip, her fondest memories will be of food (Jupiter as lord of the 2nd house as well as exalted in the 9th).

Profection:
I’m still learning about profections, but the profection for this SR year is Pisces in the natal 5th house–a good house placement. Jupiter is the profection lord in the natal 9th house and profected 9th. (A traditional association of the 9th house is “dreams” along with foreign travel.) So we have transiting Jupiter trine a profected Pisces Sun in SR 11th.

A Pisces profection places a lot of activity in the profected 12th of Aquarius: natal Mercury and transiting Venus, Neptune and Mercury. The 12th traditionally relates to foreign countries.

2019 Solar Return
The solar return heavily empathizes Rahu and the 12th house, both linked to foreign countries. Also the 12th being the feet which move us about. (I learned from this exercise that foreign travel tours come under the 12th rather than the 9th house. I checked several other charts for this type of travel, including a time period for myself for a summer tour of Europe--12th house, not 9th)

Any astrologer who looked at this year’s solar return chart would have noted the emphasis on the 6th and 12th houses, set off by the Moon/Uranus transit to the natal Mars/Ketu in 12th and Venus/Rahu in 6th which does indeed seem to point to some kind of illness. But I’ll analyze the chart based on the principle of noting mainly only partile aspects to SR house cusps or partile or very close transits to natal planets.

This is basically a Fagan style technique except that the modern Fagan school rejects houses and house cusps. But I’ve always found equal house cusps extremely important. Also, I don’t think this solar return can be accurately interpreted without considering lords of the lunar mansions and often their sub lords (star lords and subs).

(1) The Sun is on the degree of the SR 11th cusp: Older siblings and gain. The Sun is in Saturn’s star, natal Saturn is also in SR 11th and in natal 5th-- good.

(2) Transiting SR mean Rahu is on the natal degree of Fortuna with natal Jupiter a degree away. How to interpret Rahu? Transiting Rahu is in Jupiter’s star and Sun sub; Rahu is conjunct natal Jupiter on SR 3rd, and the Sun is in SR 11th. The SR 3rd house is interesting. Catherine’s sister put together a 200 page book for the trip with every detail of the trip noted, a wonderful keepsake for Catherine.

Fagan-style we also look at any planets in the first house: Mars: looks bad, but Mars is in the Sun’s star, Sun in SR 11th and natal 5th, both good placements. (A bow to K.S.Krishnamurti here.)

Now the big question of transiting Moon on natal Mars in the 6th house opposed by transiting Uranus on natal Venus in the 12th. The Moon is always important in solar return charts, and the Moon is the key here. It’s in Rahu star and Jupiter sub. Natal Rahu is in the SR 12th of foreign countries conjunct Venus, natal 12th lord. (As pointed out, transiting Rahu is conjunct natal fortuna and Jupiter.) Natal Mars which the transiting Moon conjoins is in Rahu star and Rahu sub, again pointing to transiting Rahu and natal Rahu in the 12th.

Another angular position in the solar return chart is natal Mercury close to cusp 10. Mercury is in Rahu’s star, again emphasizing Rahu. Natal Rahu itself (in SR 12th) is in Venus star, natal 12th lord.

An aspect that doesn’t touch house cusps is the transiting trine of Jupiter to natal Moon.

Because SR Uranus in SR 12th is touching off natal Venus in Ketu’s star, Ketu being in he SR 6th, we may yet see sudden health problems for Catherine during the remainder of this SR year. Saturn’s bhukti begins in early December and continues through her next birthday.

(Continued in next post)
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Last edited by Therese Hamilton on Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:13 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Location: California, USA

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SR Monthly charts and Enneads
Varshaphal uses the monthly charts for each solar return year, and Abu Ma’shar likewise discusses those charts. I use the Ennead chart, the 40 day chart to break up the year into segments. It seems that we do need these subsidiary charts or some other type of solar return progression in order to see which part of the solar return is manifesting at specific times during the year.

Catherine's 40 day Ennead chart for July 25




In this chart natal Jupiter is a central focus as three planets conjoin natal Jupiter (with natal fortuna) in the 9th house. I think this is probably more about currently “living the dream” than travel itself which seems to be the 12th house. Mercury, Venus and natal Jupiter are all in the star of Jupiter.

Transiting Mars is on natal Moon in natal and ennead 9th; transiting Jupiter is in partile trine to this Mars. The natal ascendant sign rises with retrograding transiting Jupiter moving closer to the ascendant, and natal Neptune (dreams) is in Jupiter’s star above the ascendant.

In this chart transiting Moon in the 6th has moved close to a partile conjunction to natal Rahu in Venus star, lord of natal 12th. Some intestinal upsets occurred during this trip, not uncommon during foreign travel. Otherwise the 6th house emphasis doesn’t seem so important. The emphasis by transiting Moon’s degree is on Rahu which isn’t so close to the cusp of 6th. Rahu, Moon and Uranus are in Aries, with depositor transiting Mars on natal Moon in the ennead and natal 9th.

So Keys to solar return chart and their subsidiaries:

(1) Planets in the four chart angles within perhaps 5-7 degrees of the angle degree (equal houses).

(2) Natal planets on equal SR cusps.

(3) Partile or close SR transits to natal planets, preferably near SR equal cusps.

(4) What are the star lords of key planets doing in the chart? Where are they located? Where are they in the natal chart? Also Rahu and Ketu carry the energy of their sign lords as well as star lords.

Both K.S. Krishnamurti and S.P. Khullar consider planetary aspects relatively unimportant compared to star lords, their house position and rulership. This is a modern development in India’s astrology, much like midpoints and the newer systems of progression are new in tropical astrology. Star lords are unique to India’s astrology and have no western association at all.
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
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Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:37 pm    Post subject: Blind chart analysis Reply with quote

[Post has been removed by me as it is to complex.]

Last edited by AJ on Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, AJ, I was thinking that this type of quiz should have some background on the person, and not be totally blind. But I think seven choices here is too many. I think three choices would be easier for us to work with. (I don't have the time or energy to go through seven possibilities.)

Yes, these questions are tests of various techniques, not really tests of an astrologer's predictive ability, which has to do with future events when working with clients. The key to Catherine's event during this time was the bhukti as reflected in Jupiter's natal position. This supports the ayanamsa used in the sidereal zodiac for this event at least, and the value of varga charts that Stefan pointed out.

AJ, I don't think you got a blind chart "wrong." It's just that you didn't have the time to consider all factors, especially how the dasa and bhukti might have worked out. But whatever technique you used didn't show the correct result. It's the technique that didn't work out.

It's the same with James placing solar arc planets around the solar return chart. That didn't work out either. But the "directed-profected" chart did place Jupiter on the natal ascendant and the Sun in the 9th conjunct natal Moon for a July time period. That is one of the modern techniques that should be explored further.
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AJ



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Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
Yes, AJ, I was thinking that this type of quiz should have some background on the person, and not be totally blind. But I think seven choices here is too many.

Yes, you are right. I will remove the post.
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJ,

Oh, just delete some of the choices so we can digest what we have to work with! I'll check back tomorrow to see if you have re-posted this challenge above.
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AJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2018
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Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
AJ,

Oh, just delete some of the choices so we can digest what we have to work with! I'll check back tomorrow to see if you have re-posted this challenge above.

Maybe later... I am taking stock of my available time. This last Ketu/Saturn conjunction has folks very unsettled. Energies of the existing order and the usual way of doing things are hitting the proverbial wall this week. Observe Congress/POTUS and the UK parliament/PM this week as a wide-angle example.

I will select a new chart. What events I deselect is as telling of the correct answer as what I keep if anyone read the post with attention for the short time it was up. i have many examples that are not ADB charts.
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AJ



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Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:56 pm    Post subject: Komilla blind analysis Reply with quote

I find this an interesting chart and I’m presenting it for blind analysis.

I thought I would change the format some. Rather than a totally blind analysis, I would pose various events for the astrologer to choose from.

In the spirit of the topic explain the event through Varshphal or Solar Return and using profection (Muntha) if possible. You can use other techniques to substantiate your conclusions but solar return/profection should be the primary technique. (This may be a good idea because I limited myself just to Varshphal for Catherine's blind analysis.) Then again anything that results in a ‘correct hit’ is welcome.

The challenge is mostly to have fun and it's not a contest.

Since it seems most of us use our own software and particular techniques I will only post the natal for verification. if you need other charts let me know and I will post them.

“Komilla” Female, Date of Birth: 4 September 1962, 20:20 (08:20 pm), Delhi India. Krishnamurti ayanamsa. ASC 25Pi07; Moon 18 Libra, in Swati Nakshatra

The event happened in June of 1985. Only one answer is possible for this time period.
Profection is Capricorn, or the 11th house in SC dasha. [corrected, thanks James]
1. Komilla was married.
2. Komilla got an overseas posting with a multinational company where she stayed for many years.
3. Komilla’s mother died.

Good sleuthing.



Last edited by AJ on Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Therese Hamilton



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Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This event happened well into the Solar Return year, which means I would use the Ennead to verify SR patterns. It so happens that a new Ennead chart begins on June 13, so I would need to know if this event happened before or after June 13. This is to check current transits which would also show up in the relevant Varshaphal monthly chart.
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AJ



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Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Therese Hamilton wrote:
This event happened well into the Solar Return year, which means I would use the Ennead to verify SR patterns. It so happens that a new Ennead chart begins on June 13, so I would need to know if this event happened before or after June 13. This is to check current transits which would also show up in the relevant Varshaphal monthly chart.

The challenge is to only choose from the possible events in the given year. The month was provided only to help those verifying possible timing methods they may use with solar return either with profection, other dasha systems or transit etc.

If this were a "live" client and a pattern was promised in the solar return wouldn't you erect ennead charts for the year to verify when it would happen?
In this case, you only have June to worry about so there are only two charts to erect and choose between if indeed ennead charts are truly decisive in the context of yearly prediction. One or the other should reflect the event promised in the solar return. I would think you would be thrilled at the chance to see the dramatic results and power of your technique demonstrated.

I see no reason to narrow the window of the event in this case as no other major event in the life of the native happened during this year.
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fwiw i see ennead charts as a static once every 40 day transit chart.. solar returns are transit charts too, restricted to once a year when the sun returns to the exact same spot it was... so therese, are you hoping to upend the thread? why not just do your thang with your ennead charts and stop demanding others to conform to your specific demands? that is what it looks like to me....

alternatively, the title could be changed to emphasize a focus on ennead charts.. that way you could kill a few birds with one stone..
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aj,

the event happened sometime in june 1985... the profection for sept 4th 1984 is capricorn ascendant, although being in june 85, it has moved into the sign aquarius over the course of the year... either way, saturn is the profection lord.. however jupiter becomes much more operative sometime from her birthdate sept 4th 84 to sept 4 85... jupiter is in the sign aquarius and also shows up in the D9 chart in the same sign..

i suppose it depends on how one wants to read profection charts.. either they are static once a year charts, or they are moving and changing over the course of the year... which is it?

i am about 100 pages into ben dykes book on abu ma'shars which covers a whole lot more then profections, but ma'shar does work with them in a more fluid way whereby consideration is given to them beyond just the static once a year chart.. it's a good book that elucidates further what was in his persian nativities book 3 which also covered solar revolutions and profections... it also covers a whole lot more...
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AJ



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Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
aj,

the event happened sometime in june 1985... the profection for sept 4th 1984 is capricorn ascendant, although being in june 85, it has moved into the sign aquarius over the course of the year... either way, saturn is the profection lord.. however jupiter becomes much more operative sometime from her birthdate sept 4th 84 to sept 4 85... jupiter is in the sign aquarius and also shows up in the D9 chart in the same sign..

i suppose it depends on how one wants to read profection charts.. either they are static once a year charts, or they are moving and changing over the course of the year... which is it?

Yes, you are right, the profection is Capricorn for June '85. My mistake, my eye fell on the wrong line. I have corrected the post.

As far as how to perceive or use profection I think it is up to the practitioner to decide. Isn't that the purpose of the topic? If anyone wants to use subs, transits or whatever it's okay by me. It's not my thread.
Most western systems seem to prefer a moving approach. You could move the progressed ascendant dynamically to see what planets or cusps are activated natally but perhaps that is what you are meaning (?)
Note: I received a query on profections... The profection we are discussing is also called the "progressed ascendant" known as the Muntha in Indian solar return techniques (Varshphal). Let us be clear that it is a symbolic progression. The ascendant advances 1 sign for every year in seriatim.
[I reckon profections could be calculated from the Moon, Sun, MC or any other point for that matter. Might be a matter for other research.]
Here are the subs for the main Capricorn profection for Kamala if anyone needs them.
09/04/1984 Ca
10/04/1984 Aq
11/04/1984 Pi
12/04/1984 Ar
01/04/1985 Ta
02/04/1985 Ge
03/04/1985 Ca
04/04/1985 Le
05/04/1985 Vi
06/04/1985 Li
07/04/1985 Sc
08/04/1985 Sa


Last edited by AJ on Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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